Help me pick speakers for my big room!

[Goran-P]

My current plan is to get a pair of used CBTs, and subs and see how they sound / look. If good, then I'm done. If not, then I can sell the the CBTs move back down the "Revel, Ascend acoustics, BMR, KEF, Paradigm, Mofi, etc." route

 

[Paul7777x]

In three weeks time there’ll be news of Radiant acoustics nee floorstander.

No price yet, but as the standmount is so formidable I’d expect awesome things from a floorstander with twice the number of mid-bass, bass drivers.

 

[Goran-P]

those will definitely be added to list (if I don't like CBTs), thanks for heads up!

 

[jcris]

Have you considered electrostats?
These are above what you want to spend but Quad is worth a listen. They may require upgrading your electronics.
Just a thought

 

[Flaesh]

Just a thought

Especially considering that a compact solution and placement right next to the wall are needed))

 

[jcris]

Especially considering that a compact solution and placement right next to the wall are needed))

We are talking about a large room here

 

[Mart68]

We are talking about a large room here

We are, but the O/P has specific requirements relating to WAF and general aesthetic considerations which make this much harder than it would be otherwise.

 

[jcris]

I appreciate that,
A large space with the right electrostat can work very well
And again it was just a thought

 

[Martini]

Not terribly big in a large room and the color is fairly neutral. Just sayin'

 

[Putter]

How about a surround system. You can use 5/7/9/11 speakers to fill the space. Floorstander in front and bookshelves in the back. Alternatively you might want to actually hire a pro to determine the best setup to fill your space which is not that different than a small performance space. That could get expensive when you actually add the equipment to the consulting fee.

 

[Bugal1998]

@Goran-P I'm curious, have you ever heard a pair of large, high SPL capable speakers without compression (think something like a JBL M2, 4367, or anything similar) in a large room? I ask because you may discover that you would enjoy far more output than you suspect.

If I listen to smart speakers, TV speakers, mid-range soundbars, etc., I would say low to mid-70db (A-weighted) is as loud as I would ever care to listen (usually quieter); however, on high spl capable speakers in a larger space, mid-80 db range is where the music really starts coming to life and envelopment is fully realized. Assuming the acoustics in your room can support the SPL comfortably (i.e. there are reasonable accoustics), you might find you would enjoy a much more capable speaker than you imagine.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Goran-P I'm curious, have you ever heard a pair of large, high SPL capable speakers without compression (think something like a JBL M2, 4367, or anything similar) in a large room? I ask because you may discover that you would enjoy far more output than you suspect.

If I listen to smart speakers, TV speakers, mid-range soundbars, etc., I would say low to mid-70db (A-weighted) is as loud as I would ever care to listen (usually quieter); however, on high spl capable speakers in a larger space, mid-80 db range is where the music really starts coming to life and envelopment is fully realized. Assuming the acoustics in your room can support the SPL comfortably (i.e. there are reasonable accoustics), you might find you would enjoy a much more capable speaker than you imagine.

No mate that's psy how you hear and A weigh pretty much mimic it and closer you get to reference point 88 dB SPL stereo it becomes linear. So you use equal loudness compensation to psy how we hear (inversion) and then if it's properly done you can still hear it linear even to the average speach level (low 60's). Or you just shape bass/sub response a bit and add it to average front listening SPL (mid to high 70's).

 

[Bugal1998]

No mate that's psy how you hear and A weigh pretty much mimic it and closer you get to reference point 88 dB SPL stereo it becomes linear. So you use equal loudness compensation to psy how we hear (inversion) and then if it's properly done you can still hear it linear even to the average speach level (low 60's). Or you just shape bass/sub response a bit and add it to average front listening SPL (mid to high 70's).

I'm well aware of equal loudness contours; that's not it. It's compression, rising distortion, etc. The big speakers sounding effortless while the little speakers sound 'too loud' has nothing to do with equal loudness.

Edit: Yes, speaker capability aside, the equal loudness contours are a partial factor in why music sounds better louder on a capable system, but that's also not the whole story; sufficient volume is needed to hear low-level track ambiance and detail, and some minimal amount of acoustic energy is needed to be exciting.

 

[ZolaIII]

I'm well aware of equal loudness contours; that's not it. It's compression, rising distortion, etc. The big speakers sounding effortless while the little speakers sound 'too loud' has nothing to do with equal loudness.

Smal ones can't pump the bass even to linear and with big boys you can have full 9 octaves at low SPL. Whole idea is to do it less stressful to them and how else than with crossovers. Should I go further?

 

[Bugal1998]

Smal ones can't pump the bass even to linear and with big boys you can have full 9 octaves at low SPL. Whole idea is to do it less stressful to them and how else than with crossovers. Should I go further?

I posted an edit to my reply at the same time you replied.

Anyway, we may be in agreement on this (though your first post was contradictory). When a speaker remains linear in frequency response with low distortion at high SPLs it doesn't sound "loud" like less capable speakers, it sounds effortless and powerful. This in turn makes it pleasant (room permitting) to listen at higher SPLs where the ear is more linear, and music becomes more engaging and enveloping.

If we are in agreement, wonderful. If not you can go on as you like; my goal wasn't to discuss the "why" for the OP, merely to suggest a potential avenue for exploration before committing to speakers that may not maximize his enjoyment of the room.

 

[ZolaIII]

I posted an edit to my reply at the same time you replied.

Anyway, we may be in agreement on this (though your first post was contradictory). When a speaker remains linear in frequency response with low distortion at high SPLs it doesn't sound "loud" like less capable speakers, it sounds effortless and powerful. This in turn makes it pleasant (room permitting) to listen at higher SPLs where the ear is more linear, and music becomes more engaging and enveloping.

If we are in agreement, wonderful. If not you can go on as you like; my goal wasn't to discuss the "why" for the OP, merely to suggest a potential avenue for exploration before committing to speakers that may not maximize his enjoyment of the room.

We ain't far off. It's just me getting tired to explain benefits of 2.2 stereo setup for the who knows what time to who knows hum.
I tried to help him (Goran) he went his own way and that's fine with me. To it's 6m distance at least test 2x8" and stressed out with high crossovers to 120 Hz. As tweater is a problem and Be's (and in general) berilium one is too expensive I tried to point him to F208 if he can find them (last year you could snatch them at very discounted price as they are discontinued so dealer's where clearing stocks).

 

[Bugal1998]

We ain't far off. It's just me getting tired to explain benefits of 2.2 stereo setup for the who knows what time to who knows hum.
I tried to help him (Goran) he went his own way and that's fine with me. To it's 6m distance at least test 2x8" and stressed out with high crossovers to 120 Hz. As tweater is a problem and Be's (and in general) berilium one is too expensive I tried to point him to F208 if he can find them (last year you could snatch them at very discounted price as they are discontinued so dealer's where clearing stocks).

All good on my end

 

[Goran-P]

Also, good on my end ... I have acquired 2 x 10" subs (used), and I am planning on getting CBT's line arrays (used) to try that out, since many folks seem to think I need that sort of set up to get enough SPL into the room, esp on the tweeter side. ZolaIII, do you think that's not right? If the CBT's don't work, I will sell those and move to the Revel 208's, or the equivalent. I have not gotten the CBTs yet. I am in, hmm, 'negotiations' with wifey. I'll also consider another 2x 8" woofers for other 2 corners of room. But want to hear how it sounds with just the two subs first.

 

[ZolaIII]

Also, good on my end ... I have acquired 2 x 10" subs (used), and I am planning on getting CBT's line arrays (used) to try that out, since many folks seem to think I need that sort of set up to get enough SPL into the room, esp on the tweeter side. ZolaIII, do you think that's not right? If the CBT's don't work, I will sell those and move to the Revel 208's, or the equivalent. I have not gotten the CBTs yet. I am in, hmm, 'negotiations' with wifey. I'll also consider another 2x 8" woofers for other 2 corners of room. But want to hear how it sounds with just the two subs first.

I am absolutely against columns. Physics work different. If you want to build multi zone area but that's for offices. In a ISO 3382 manner. You still don't have huge cineplex so JBL big boys are out of question and so are PA ones for aesthetical reasons. You need at least two good 8" woofers on mains to get to 6m calibration point nicely massively stressed out (acting as mid woofers) with help of sub's. In the way when you cross a sub with each speaker and put them close to another you are making a column sort of (mini one). That's how every stage is set up. I tried to recommend you budget Revels you ended up with flagship offer. This place known to go crazy in a blink. With 2x10" it sounds good in my small room with medium reinforcement.
This is example of well done 12" off the shelf budget subwoofer.

RSL Speedwoofer 12S Powered Subwoofer

RSL Speedwoofer 12S

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

I can get there better to music preset in a little bigger closes box +12 dB with squre 15" driver's. To a pair +12 dB for those 12" would be 16 that's 8 each (base of two because first time you get +3 dB for full sum under 45 Hz but that's just once). I really mean you need very powerful of the shelf sub's and would suggest higher end SVS part of offering (for if anything you will find proper measurements of some).
See how those 10" ones will behave half breached on side of an arc you could get + 10~11 dB (half the distance and side reinforcement) but then you get to cover glass surfaces as they will ring (they will ring anyway if not when exited enough). On lower SPL lv even with all bass boost from ELC it probably won't so that's for you to play and find out. On tweeter side again the alu one on F208 will do fine, berilium one from big brother will do it wider but far from those alu's ain't wide. Size ain't everything in that space, I know not that big super tweeters that are best described from some of the legendary speaker designers as bright as a sun. That's where area design comes to play (for coverage) but again on stages and where colmun ends.
I guess you didn't ask wife regarding curtains.
Edit: I don't find high piano gloss black ugly or repelling but that's me. It goes great with aliluminuum/silver/titanium as I spend more time looking at amp then speakers and still don't look much to any of them. It's either projector or display or a book but not speakers. They are there to make that time when I am looking to my own business more plesent.

 

[Goran-P]

I did ask her, answer was no on curtains