Help me find a sound system for under $2k

[FlyingFreak]

Hello everyone,

I ve been lurking this forum for quite some time and I am now finally ready to get a new sound system and hope to get some help from you guys. The offerings out there are totally overwhelming and I hope some of you guys will stop by and share your knowledge!

Here is the deal. I am looking for a complete audio system for my living room (dimension 19 feet long, 11 wide, 100 inches to ceiling) in an (old) apartment. The room is far from ideal, two entry point in one corner with no doors, huge window (from floor to ceiling) on one of the shorter walls, thin hardwood floor. The speakers will need to be close to the wall.

It will be for mix usage: listening to music and watching tv (series, movies and video games). I listen to all genres of music, from classical to folk to techno to rap… you name it, but mostly electronic music (Weval, Christian Loffler, Forest Swords, Andy Stott, etc) and jazz (instrument and voice).

I wish to find something that would make me happy to listen to my music again and be fun to watch movie with too. Right now, I make do with a soundbar and bluetooth speakers and … well I don’t listen to anything anymore. I also have a pair of HE-560 bought 4-5 years ago (dunno the version). They’re better than the soundbar but don’t give me the chill either.

My budget is a max of $2000 everything. If I could get something satisfying for under 1k, that would however be ideal. I wouldn't mind upgrading my headphones too. Even with this sound system, I will still spend a fair amount of time listening with headphones and if there is a component (dac?) that I could use for both speakers and headphones, it would be great. So far I m plugging them directly to my computer or tv. I did had a couple of dac in the past and couldn't hear the difference so that last bit isn't a deal breaker.

What else? I am looking for a 2.0 system. I do have a new tv with all the bells and whistle and I am sure Dolby Atmos is fun but not to the point of having cables everywhere or downgrade my music listening experience. I don’t care for a sub either but would love the option to upgrade in the future. I think bookshelves speakers would be best for me and I am open to hear other ideas.

I have looked at self-powered monitor speakers, but it sounds like the consensus here and everywhere is that it isn’t the best way to go for a casual living room set up. Am I right?

I started to look around last week, here is what I found:
I have listened to a few Kef speakers (why do people selling tvs want to sell us KEF? It’s true at Best Buy in the US as it is back in Belgium where I am from). I am not a fan of the Q 350 that sounded super small and scrambled nor the LS50 that was just … not interesting and anyway waaaay out of my budget. The R3 were much better but again out of budget.

I also had a chance to listen to Sonus Faber Luminus 1 and 2 and a pair of Paradigm. I think they were the 100B. I preferred the Paradigm for strings and voice, but electronic music sounded terrible to me. I felt tired quickly, listening to them. The luminus 2 were much easier to listen to and seemed less demanding in terms of placement but didn’t excite me as much. All 3 speakers were connected to a Cambridge CXA61, which was the strong recommendation of the vendors for my needs. It does push my budget though, as vendors do.

From looking around here, I gather the Revel M16 sounds like a great speaker for my needs. I have no way of listening to it here though.

That is all. Thanks for hanging with me on this wordy post. Any and all help from you all would be most welcome!

 

[amper42]

My first choice for speakers in an 11' x 19' room would be BMR Monitors. BMR's are $1,700/pair plus shipping. They come in piano black or rosewood cabinets. BMR cabinets come with magnetic grills. The next shipment arrives in April. To get on the wait list email Dennis Murphy [email protected]. No deposit required.

https://www.philharmonicaudio.coms

The BMR Monitor sounds much better than the Revel 16 or Revel 105. From your speaker notes it sounds like you are not going to be happy with a speaker that's mediocre so you may as well get something you can enjoy for a lifetime.

 

[FlyingFreak]

Thanks Amper for chiming in!
If I followed that route I wouldn't be able to afford an amp unfortunately. I need an entire system for under 2k... I could stretch it a tiny bit but not that much.

I feel totally lost at the moment. Really doesn't help not to have anything.

Current hesitations:

Why not get a pair of active speaker and stop thinking about it? I can find a pair of studio monitor at my Guitar center and it will be better than nothing.
Shall I really 'lock' myself in a 2.0 hifi system or get an avr system the likes of the Denon AVR3700 in case I want to get a front speaker and/or some surround at some point? How much would that compromise on sound quality/enjoyment now? But if I don't get something with HDMI arc, how am I going to connect the PS5, Apple TV and Switch? Is the optic link of my tv passthrough as the ARC?

I m realizing how much I don't know and have no clue as to where I should start to help me move forward. I'll keep updating this thread as I -hopefully- move along. I really want to listen to music.

 

[amper42]

When I read your thoughts on speakers you had auditioned I realized you're looking for something special. That is why I recommended the BMR. They are amazing. The Revel M105 review on ASR was very enthusiastic. So I bought a pair. Once the M105 arrived I compared it head to head against the BMR monitor. It wasn't even in the same league. The BMR has a three way design with a tweeter to die for and a much fuller sound than my M105. I was shocked how much better the BMR sounded against the highly praised Revel M105.

This will be a bit outside your budget but consider the following:
1. BMR $1700
2. Two channel NC252MP, XLR inputs (Neutrik), Mogami wiring, 12v trigger, Power LED (Blue) = $529 shipped
3. Topping D30 Pro - $399 (Wait until Black Friday in Nov and get 15%-20% off.)
Use your computer to play music thru the USB port on the DAC with Qobuz and have all the sounds in the world.

Or if that's impossible go to Good Will and shop for a basic receiver for less than $100 and use it with your new BMR speakers. It will sound so much better than if you spent $1000 on an amp/receiver and get speakers that don't excite you.

I had my BMR's connected to my Hegel H90 that tested poorly on ASR but they sounded wonderful to me. With as little as 30W the BMR can rock my room. From my travels, the speaker is 70-90% of the sound and the other electronics make up the rest. As long as it's not distorting lots of electronics can sound acceptable until you decide to upgrade.

Going the route of a Denon 3700 AVR is a totally different direction and a lot more money.

 

[Brierlox]

I work in sales, so I apologise. Instead of starting at a price point, why dont you define what makes you enjoy the music? Personally, I like to hear the guitarists strings touch the string to the fretboard before they strum and I like to hear if the snare drum has been mic'ed top and bottom. That level of detail don't come cheap.

Your preference is important for other people to understand what to suggest based on what you perceive as "happy to listen to music again". Again, what sort of music do you like. If it is classical, how deep do you like your tympani? If it's vocal jazz, how dry do you like it? If it's rock, do you like to hear the... and so on.

I'm Irish and $2000 is around €1700 meaning circa €500 for source, amp and speakers. Personally, aim higher. Much higher. Put yourself in debt.

 

[TurtlePaul]

The BMR is certainly a nice speaker, as are actives from the likes of Genelec (8030c) Neumann (kh120a), or even cheaper offerings from JBL ot Kali.

The BMR has more bass and wider directivity while the active monitors focus on ruler flat frequency response and more narrow controlled directivity.

If you go the route of passives, as was said previously, you can just get a cheapo receiver. A 20 year old $20 goodwill receiver with have at least two orders of magnitude less frequency response error and two orders of magnitude less distortion than $2000 speakers, so spend the money where it counts.

 

[BDWoody]

I have looked at self-powered monitor speakers, but it sounds like the consensus here and everywhere is that it isn’t the best way to go for a casual living room set up. Am I right?

Based on aesthetics maybe, not necessarily the sound quality.

My JBL 705p and 708p's are pretty ugly but sound amazing.

 

[mcdn]

Having the speakers close to the wall isn’t a problem. But wherever they go, some room correction would be the biggest win of all. Consider a MiniDSP Flex and some powered monitors like the JBL LSR 308p. A $99 headphone amp can also be hooked up to the Flex - you’ll love your headphones again once you apply some DSP to them as well.

this option does require you to be somewhat comfortable with using REW and a microphone to configure the correction, but it’ll make much more difference than spending more on speakers, while giving you budget Left over if you prefer something else to the JBLs.

 

[f1shb0n3]

Powered monitors are a great option, usually easiest and most cost-effective choice for the performance you get from them.
Kali Audio has some great offerings - the cheaper LP-8 v2 is good for $400/pair, the IN-8 v2 is great, probably one of the best speakers under $1k at $800/pair. Just make sure to get v2 of either, v1 has loud audible hiss.
Check out Erin's measurements:

Kali Audio LP-8v2 (Second Wave) 2-Way Studio Monitor Review

Kali Audio LP-8v2 2-Way Studio Monitor Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Kali Audio IN-8v2 (Second Wave) 3-Way Studio Monitor Review

Kali Audio IN-8v2 3-Way Studio Monitor Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Also +1 on room correction - it's essential and will improve any speaker in any room. MiniDSP is great for stereo, Dirac Live upgrade is worth it too.

 

[dwkdnvr]

I'd consider a 2.1 system. e.g.

MiniDSP Flex $450
Emotiva 12" sub $450
Neumann KH 80DSP $1000

You can sub in other monitors for the Neumann.
(I was going to recommend the Kef Q150 + Topping PA 5, but if you're not on board with Kef's that doesn't make sense)

 

[RickSanchez]

So I might be putting a little too much weight towards your comment of "complete audio system for my living room" but here's my take ...

1. Go spend ~$500 on a Denon AVR. To save some money see if you can find a new / factory refurbished model from their 2019 lineup: X1600H, S750H, S650H, something like that. You get:
   • Room correction (via Audyssey)
   • Tons of connectivity options for TV, streaming, game consoles, etc.
   • With 5.2 or 7.2 channels you can expand over time ... or not.
2. For, let's say $100, find a nice headphone amp. (Typically the headphone out on AVRs is pretty poor.)
3. Use the rest of your ~$1400 on speakers.
   • You could get the Revel M16s for what, under $1k?
   • Eventually you should consider getting a sub, and at some point you may decide (for TV/movies) that having a center is a good idea. But you don't need those things up front. That's the benefit of having the AVR: plug in what you have, and when you get more just plug those speakers in and re-measure.

 

[JustJones]

You can look at a list of passive speakers here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-recommendations-for-usa-by-sweetchaos.28296/
Actives here
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-recommendations-for-usa-by-sweetchaos.28269/

 

[mcdn]

+1 to the Kali speakers. Some powered monitors, especially smaller ones, have very steeply rolled off bass which limits what you can do with room correction there - you said you prefer not to have subs. The Kalis don't have that problem.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Now that I read the post again on the budget, I would get the Kali IN-8 at $800/pair for active speakers plus add a Topping DX-3 pro+ at $200 to act as the DAC/input selector/volume control/ headphone amp, then I would get a UMIK-1 for $100 and download Room EQ Wizard to DSP away some of the room issues when the PC is being used as the source. You probably also will spend $100-200 at monoprice on speaker stands and the various cables.

 

[mcdn]

@TurtlePaul makes a good point that if you only use the PC as a source (i.e all your "TV use" is Netflix played off the PC) you can get away without the MiniDSP or equivalent, and use the PC for room correction. If you want to use the TV without the PC then you'll need some device that does the input switching and DSP.

I'll reiterate the key point though - with your $2000 whole-system budget, room correction DSP will make more difference than any amount of money spent on fancier speakers.

This is a great thread, it's a budget and setup that is really common so getting a fairly good "just do this" answer will help a lot of people!

 

[mcdn]

Oh and @RickSanchez also has a great point there about using an AVR with room correction if you want more flexibility and expansion options.

Just seen you mentioned the PS5, AppleTV and Switch. Your choices are:

• Get an AVR and some passive speakers. The room correction will work but be less "tweakable", especially in the low bass. Connectivity will "just work" through the AVR. You won't be able to do DSP for your headphones through the AVR, but you have other options there including playing the headphones through your PC.
• Plug the PS5, AppleTV and Switch into the TVs various HDMI ports, and plug the TV's optical audio out into a MiniDSP Flex. Use active speakers. More flexible on the audio but less expandable.

If your answer to "how geeky am I" is "not at all geeky" then perhaps don't go with option 2. Otherwise it's up to you.

 

[f1shb0n3]

If Atmos setup is plausible in the near future, I would even pour most of the budget on a good AVR with good room correction and get some cheap bookshelf speakers that could later move to rear surround. Onkyo TZ-RZ50 for $1400 comes with Dirac Live (best room correction at the price IMO) and 9.2 channels,125W power, all latest HDMI supported, etc. Denon X3700 is fine too with Audyssey XT32 room correction.

My overall point is plan your next steps now if you can foresee them, this will save you money and hassle later.

 

[Jmm22]

I’m the opposite. Don’t spend a lot on a receiver. You can always get one down the road. They’re all inflated due to chip shortages. Good speakers are a better foundation. As technology moves forward then you’ll find cheaper AVRs with better features.

I’d probably look into a $500 receiver then spend the rest on speakers. The Yamaha TSR-700 is pretty good. It’s about $440 at Costco. Audessey is overrated unless you get the 3000 series and up. Anything below that uses a version that is inferior to Yamaha or others.

I bought my system focuses on movies/tv, but I got Emotiva T2+ ($1,000), C2+ ($400), TSR-700 ($440). The Emotivas are well reviewed, but big. They also have large enough drivers to output decent bass. I eventually added 2 18” PSA subs, but I sometimes run just the towers if it’s late and I don’t want to disturb anyone.

If you want a TV/movie focus then AVRforums has a lot of good info and usually decent deals on used speakers and equipment.

 

[FlyingFreak]

Thank you all for your inputs!

Gives me quite a bit to think about.

Updates of what is happening in my head:

Reading all your comments and suggestions, I got reminded why I am having so much trouble starting to think about my setup.
I don't own the place I m living in and will probably not stay long here. It has been the case over the last 5 years and that is why I haven't got any sound system since I live in the US. Now I've decided I couldn't wait any longer not listening to music is not good for my mental health.
It's a bummer and I'll deal with it. Kinda why I want to keep it in that 'reasonable' price range.

I am going to spend a little time to study sound and room eq. Having a AVR with a satisfying software doing it for me sounds pretty appealing to be honest. Not feeling the geek in me these days. I'll update this as I study what is up.

Intuitively, I am leaning more towards spending more money on speakers than anything else. I am the dude listening to his HE 560 directly plug in his tv and mbp, failing to hear any improvement with a dac (I am listening at fairly low level I think).

After checking out the reviews here of the Kef speakers, I am wanting to give them another chance. I was at BestBuy in a room at least 4 times like mine and listening at maybe 20 feet from them, with the dude in the room with me, in control of the music and volume. Very different to how I got to experience the other speakers. I ll go back, try to be in charge of my listening and have dude out of the way and get much closer and see I am more interested in what I am hearing. Will ask if I could bring both the R3 and LS50 at home, no idea if BestBuy allows for that.

I am also noticing I am very much likely to buy speakers I can actually listen too. Rest of the equipment is a little less important.

 

[mcdn]

Just remember there is little point auditioning speakers without room correction, as you’ll mostly be auditioning your room.