Help me decide, open-back headphones around 300$

[Faith]

-=PREVIOUS HEADPHONE=-
I've been using the DT990 for quite a few years now but it's time to upgrade as the right driver stopped working.

The main issues I had with that headphone were:
1) Cheap plastic hinges that would break really easy ( had to replace them twice )
2) Fatiguing audio to the point I had to lower volume or take a break after a few hours. ( + soft EQ to boost the bass )

And there were some other things that annoyed me but it's not a deal breaker to be honest:
1) Awful process of replacing pads
2) Hair that would get stuck between the foam-driver every now and then ( 4-6 months ) resulting in rattling.

-=USE CASE=-
1) Music
I mainly listen to Firehouse/Techno, Rock/Metal, Jazz but I like to explore other genres from time to time.
A thing I noticed is I don't pay too much attention to lyrics as the vocals are usually another musical instrument in the music composition for me although I am willing to explore other options. I can also make a playlist if need be to show what I prefer lately.

2) FPS shooter games that have lots of communication
Competitive mindset in the few games I play, I go for highscores and chase perfect play.
I also enjoy good communication + immersion in the games ( Squad / Escape from Tarkov etc )
I use EqAPO for a compression filter because those games have high dynamic range ( tank shots result in instant tinnitus ).

60/40 Music/Gaming although in the future I see gaming to be reduced to 20~ possibly

-=My main issue=-
It seems if I prefer better gaming I give up too much on music and vice versa, these are the options I am considering so far:

1) AKG712 (230€)
I've read it has a big soundstage which helps with immersion but not the best imaging. It's also not that good for music + the pads are 100$/replacement
2) HD600 (285€)
Vocal forward headphone that's not that good for gaming because of the soundstage being very small + (3 point imaging of Sennheiser?)
3) R70x (315€)
Good soundstage and good imaging, main issue is that I have to wait half a month to get them ( not a massive problem if it's the best option I have )

If you have any recommendations please say so, my budget is around 300$~ but I am flexible ( EUROPE ) if I can get something much better.
I also can't test or return any of the headphones after purchase unfortunately.

 

[staticV3]

Skip the K712, it sounds bad. Both stock and with EQ.
In its place, consider the Sundara 2020

The HD600 is always a safe bet. Takes EQ well, is durable, and has many well priced replacement parts available. It just sounds very "in your head".

After four years with the HD600, I've switched to IEMs and wouldn't go back. Better bass, no headset hair, and it's easier to hear footsteps and the like.
You just have to find a pair that you can wear for hours.

 

[Faith]

Skip the K712, it sounds bad. Both stock and with EQ.
In its place, consider the Sundara 2020

The HD600 is always a safe bet. Takes EQ well, is durable, and has many well priced replacement parts available. It just sounds very "in your head".

After four years with the HD600, I've switched to IEMs and wouldn't go back. Better bass, no headset hair, and it's easier to hear footsteps and the like.
You just have to find a pair that you can wear for hours.

Thanks for the reply.
Wouldn't "in your head" be bad for gaming?

 

[staticV3]

Thanks for the reply.
Wouldn't "in your head" be bad for gaming?

Not a problem I find for games with proper binaural surround sound, like CS or Hunt Showdown.

 

[markanini]

The AKG K612 is very good if you are not a bass head.

 

[Faith]

Not a problem I find for games with proper binaural surround sound, like CS or Hunt Showdown.

The AKG K612 is very good if you are not a bass head.

We've got a new contender, fight it out.
Now jokes aside why is the AKG 712 so terrible ?

The FR isn't the best but does that show the whole picture? Genuinely asking as I am new to this stuff.
I thought there are other parameters as well that could impact a buying decision regarding audio.
For example soundstage / imaging ( spatial qualities ) although I don't know how much this is a result of a specific FR instead of other things like angled drivers / they way the headphone is made.

 

[Pretorious]

Soundstage and imagining are rather vague descriptions of phenomena that may or may not pertain to how you perceive the audio from a headphone. There is as yet no real way to measure, quantify or objectify such a thing with any scientific persistence; it’s more a subjective description of what you’re hearing.

With that said, there are hints that a certain elevation in the higher frequencies will enhance this affect, but you may perceive it differently. There’s no way to tell unless you try. This is why some people can feel a large occlusion effect with closed headphones while others might feel they sound more ‘open’. And it’s why the HD600s feel closed in to some and not others. Angled drivers may help enhance the feeling of a soundstage but it’s not a guarantee. Even with them, some people always feel that the music comes from inside their own head with headphones. Expecting a pair of headphones to give the same feeling and dimension as a set of speakers may be asking for disappointment.

RTINGS.com tries to help this situation by providing a quantifiable measurement of soundstage, and their reviews of headphones may be a help to you for this reason; at the very least, they can be a guide for what to expect. It’s not a perfect measurement by any means, but they’re trying and deserve some praise for that. You can read about how they measure it here on their site.

Now jokes aside why is the AKG 712 so terrible ?

This particular headphone does not measure well. Amir has reviewed it here in this thread. You can see that bass, mids and treble are all deficient. Unless you EQ, it would be best to pass on 712s. Here are some other reviews/measurements:

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/akg/k712/

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0ucv96zjjp8cvv/AKG K712.pdf?dl=0

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...lts/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/AKG K712

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/akg/k712-pro

https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/akg-k712-pro/

 

[GabrielPhoto]

I would give the HD 560s a try. I never liked Senns before but the 560s took me by surprise.
There's is a YouTuber that was doing an evaluation of headphones for competitive gaming and 560s is his pick as well


PS Now he seems to favor the 990 Pro X

 

[Carlo2AC]

Replacing pads on the HD6 series is so smooth, i'd recommend the HD 650 / 6XX

The only issue with them is depending on how big your ears are they can touch the driver quite easily

 

[Deleted member 4708]

I would also consider Beyer DT 880 (600 ohm version). Great tonality.My order would be Senny HD 600 first and DT 880 second.

 

[Yasuo]

This is simple, the HD600. R70x & AKG712 have more flaws...

 

[Deleted member 60987]

Skip the K712, it sounds bad. Both stock and with EQ.
In its place, consider the Sundara 2020

The HD600 is always a safe bet. Takes EQ well, is durable, and has many well priced replacement parts available. It just sounds very "in your head".

After four years with the HD600, I've switched to IEMs and wouldn't go back. Better bass, no headset hair, and it's easier to hear footsteps and the like.
You just have to find a pair that you can wear for hours.

The Sundras get a high neutrality score, but they don't look very comfortable. Are they?

 

[staticV3]

The Sundras get a high neutrality score, but they don't look very comfortable. Are they?

I haven't worn them yet, but even if I did, what's comfortable to me might be uncomfortable to you. It's all subjective.
I do think that the suspension strap is the superior headband though.

And FWIW, rtings rates the Sundara 2020 pretty high on comfort:

 

[Deleted member 60987]

I haven't worn them yet, but even if I did, what's comfortable to me might be uncomfortable to you. It's all subjective.
I do think that the suspension strap is the superior headband though.

And FWIW, rtings rates the Sundara 2020 pretty high on comfort:
View attachment 281135

Yes, I read one after posting that that said they are. They just don't look it. With an 8.4 neutrality rating at around $300. Interesting option. https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/hifiman/sundara-2020