Help me decide Genelec 7361a or D&D 8C

[Marc v E]

Currently at a conundrum, trying to decide the 'end game' speaker system, with minimal amount of equipment and fuss, but achieving best sound possible within the budget of circa US$10k. Currently it is narrowed down to D&D 8C and Genelec 8361a. My current system (if you see my other post) is a good performer, but I'd like to reduce number of equipment and make it simpler. Ultimately, I want a system that can play from NAS/Streamer, Apple Music and LP (near future). The desire is for as wide bandwidth as possible in a relatively 'small' package that is domestic friendly, easy to set up and has the most sonic potential. The lead time delivered for both is around 3-4 months.

Where I am now, as I am an expat, the price difference between the two is around 10%, with the Genelec being cheaper. If I were to add GLM, the difference is then around 7-8% or so. So the price is fairly similar, I have read a number of reviews on both and there isn't any one particular sway. I would think that from a streamer (not using Roon) and having a future LP also, that the Genelec would be more useful as it can have both connected at the same time, whereas the D&D will require Roon or to change the XLR connections each time, I think.

Do any forum members have any experience to shed on this, or can share your experiences with both.

[Long term I will feed the digital via AES (iPad and Auralic Aries Mini via USB-AES) and have a phonostage with XLR out]

Which country do you live in, if I may ask? Surely there must be some place where you can audition at least 1 of those speakers?

 

[Eeyoredave]

I'm an outlier but I've had the Dutch and Dutch 8c twice and both times ended up selling them. They are exceptional monitors and when you're in that sweet spot they are absolutely addictive. My problem is I couldn't always be in that area since my listening room is also my living room so I went with speakers that have wider dispersion. As always YMMV.

I hear your points about dispersion and I appreciate the ability to have a wider sweet spot. But looking at the horizontal dispersion plot of both, they seem relatively similar? I did look at the Focal Trio 11 for some time, and they seemed attractive, especially when you compare them to the Focal home range. However, I would like to avoid have to do too much external EQ and/or Room correction, and I the 8c appeals on that front, with the built in REW - do it once and the correction EQ is built in. With Genelec GLM, I presume that it needs to be plugged in all the time?

 

[lherrm]

With Genelec GLM, I presume that it needs to be plugged in all the time?

Only during setup, then the filters can be saved into the speakers, and the GLM system disconnected.

 

[Eeyoredave]

Which country do you live in, if I may ask? Surely there must be some place where you can audition at least 1 of those speakers?

In a place called Macau... Cannot go into HK (there are dealers) and cannot go into China at the moment, so stuck here...

Only during setup, then the filters can be saved into the speakers, and the GLM system disconnected.

Oh ok, that makes it easier. Volume control wise, at the source or at the speaker?

 

[lherrm]

Oh ok, that makes it easier. Volume control wise, at the source or at the speaker?

To control the volume at the speaker you can use the Genelec remote but GLM has to be connected.
You surely can the control volume digitally within the signal chain but I'll let other people answer that.

 

[Marc v E]

In a place called Macau... Cannot go into HK (there are dealers) and cannot go into China at the moment, so stuck here...

I understand. I don't know if this helps, but if it was my money I would choose on other features than sound reproduction alone. Given that both are really good in this regard, I would consider:

-that the d&d look very nice as a design element in a home environment. The 8361 look more industrial so a modern interior with lots of space would suit better imo. I would prefer to orientate them horizontally for looks.
-that the 8361 will hold their value much better and are easier to sell on.
-that the 8361 have more connection possibilities.

(Btw: my own preference would be the Genelecs because I love the 8030 so much and would want to support the company and what they stand for).

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

I own Dutch&Dutch 8C's and the Genelec 8351B's. The 8C is the better speaker in an untreated room. I set each speaker up against my front wall angled 30° inward and set the distance to the front and side wall in the LANSpeaker settings. I then ran REW for either speaker for three listening positions, one in the sweet spot, and one a couple feet off to either side. I took the average of these responses and used the EQ profile for the 8C's in REW to correct the bass response for either speaker and sent the filters to the speakers directly from REW.

It takes about 15 minutes of setup to get audio nirvana from these speakers. They sound and measure amazingly good in my untreated room. Even the time domain measurements are something to behold. I don't know how they do it.

The Genelecs can get there as well, but you need treatment a more care in setting them up.

 

[Eeyoredave]

I understand. I don't know if this helps, but if it was my money I would choose on other features than sound reproduction alone. Given that both are really good in this regard, I would consider:

-that the d&d look very nice as a design element in a home environment. The 8361 look more industrial so a modern interior with lots of space would suit better imo. I would prefer to orientate them horizontally for looks.
-that the 8361 will hold their value much better and are easier to sell on.
-that the 8361 have more connection possibilities.

(Btw: my own preference would be the Genelecs because I love the 8030 so much and would want to support the company and what they stand for).

You're 100% right, I think at this end of the market, it is the last 1~2% kind and my wife does agree that the D&D is much more domestic friendly, whereas the 8361 is 'strange' in her words. I am not one to sell things on really, so I would consider that a lower priority, but the ability to have slightly more connections (1 more) is a benefit. I am using the 8010 for my computer setup running through RME ADI-2, and very happy with the results also!

I own Dutch&Dutch 8C's and the Genelec 8351B's. The 8C is the better speaker in an untreated room. I set each speaker up against my front wall angled 30° inward and set the distance to the front and side wall in the LANSpeaker settings. I then ran REW for either speaker for three listening positions, one in the sweet spot, and one a couple feet off to either side. I took the average of these responses and used the EQ profile for the 8C's in REW to correct the bass response for either speaker and sent the filters to the speakers directly from REW.

It takes about 15 minutes of setup to get audio nirvana from these speakers. They sound and measure amazingly good in my untreated room. Even the time domain measurements are something to behold. I don't know how they do it.

The Genelecs can get there as well, but you need treatment a more care in setting them up.

Cheers, it is unlikely that my room will ever be treated properly, aside from using normal home decor items, so I think that is a consideration, especially given that they can be placed close to walls, whereas I presume that the 8361 one has to use GLM to dial in the EQ.

At the moment, there are a lot of pluses for both!

 

[Pearljam5000]

If you don't plan to add subs and 8C has more bass output than it might help you decide for it

 

[sharock]

I'd be interested to see comparison in-room measurements of both in the same untreated room. How much of a difference does the 8C's cardioid make to the smoothness of the response?

For example, Erin's living room response for the 8C. Would the 8361/51 be less smooth between 100-500Hz due to SBIR?

 

[Eeyoredave]

I'd be interested to see comparison in-room measurements of both in the same untreated room. How much of a difference does the 8C's cardioid make to the smoothness of the response?

For example, Erin's living room response for the 8C. Would the 8361/51 be less smooth between 100-500Hz due to SBIR?

Love to buy both, test them at home for a few weeks and return one!unfortunately no such service in this part of the world!

If you don't plan to add subs and 8C has more bass output than it might help you decide for it

but my thinking was, the need to add a sub at the 8361 price point, as compared with 8C, is definitely a negative…

 

[thewas]

I'd be interested to see comparison in-room measurements of both in the same untreated room. How much of a difference does the 8C's cardioid make to the smoothness of the response?

For example, Erin's living room response for the 8C. Would the 8361/51 be less smooth between 100-500Hz due to SBIR?

I had posted some in-room measurements of a D&D 8C vs Neumann KH 310 in the same room here, differences were smaller than we had expected.

 

[Eeyoredave]

I had posted some in-room measurements of a D&D 8C vs Neumann KH 310 in the same room here, differences were smaller than we had expected.

Thanks. Am I reading it correct that there is still more energy at the lowest end with the 8C, aside from the room modes/interaction?

 

[thewas]

Thanks. Am I reading it correct that there is still more energy at the lowest end with the 8C, aside from the room modes/interaction?

Yes, also it doesn't show a SBIR dip around 110 Hz like the KH310, but has one around 60 Hz.

 

[abdo123]

I had posted some in-room measurements of a D&D 8C vs Neumann KH 310 in the same room here, differences were smaller than we had expected.

I think the measurement does not do this comparison justice.

Increased directivity should reduce seat to seat variation, but with an MMM measurement you basically RMS Averaged all the seats anyway.

Incase you have the opportunity in the future, take sweeps at different seats. At least this way RMS averaging would be 'optional'.

 

[Eeyoredave]

Yes, also it doesn't show a SBIR dip around 110 Hz like the KH310, but has one around 60 Hz.

I think the measurement does not do this comparison justice.

Increased directivity should reduce seat to seat variation, but with an MMM measurement you basically RMS Averaged all the seats anyway.

Incase you have the opportunity in the future, take sweeps at different seats. At least this way RMS averaging would be 'optional'.

There is still so much about acoustic measurements and room EQ that I have to learn, as I understand so little! But being on this forum is guiding me in the right direction for sure.

Still have not go around to doing a proper measure of my existing setup...

 

[thewas]

I think the measurement does not do this comparison justice.

Increased directivity should reduce seat to seat variation, but with an MMM measurement you basically RMS Averaged all the seats anyway.

Incase you have the opportunity in the future, take sweeps at different seats. At least this way RMS averaging would be 'optional'.

The used setup of the friend was a single listening position one and the MMM was just in a small related radius to a single position, so not too far different from a sweep at that position with appropriate smoothing. I doubt that there would be a big difference though at a neighbouring listening position (unless very large sofa) considering that the main difference in the directivity is in the 100-500 Hz region with the corresponding wavelengths. Unfortunately there is no chance for newer measurements as he sent the 8C back after 2 weeks of comparison to his KH310.

 

[GDK]

but such a large blind purchase

If it makes you feel better, I bought my 8c’s without having listened to them beforehand, so you wouldn’t be alone at least.

 

[Eeyoredave]

If it makes you feel better, I bought my 8c’s without having listened to them beforehand, so you wouldn’t be alone at least.

Nice to know I am not alone, and your experience thus far? Love em?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Nice to know I am not alone, and your experience thus far? Love em?

You can listen to the 8C here VS ATC
It's very well recorded