Help me decide: 7.1 today with future headroom, go with the Denon AVR-X4700H or X8500H

[Destroid]

Denon 4700 is the sweet spot for almost all the features and DACs of the higher end models.
I'm considering it too for a modest near term setup with room to grow to 7.2.4 if using an external amp with two or more channels.

Note that the amp assign/semi preamp feature repurposes the L,R amps to additional heights.

Currently running a Denon 3311CI with an Emotiva XPA-3gen2 for the fronts in 7.1 config.

 

[peng]

What does the 4700 offer over the 3700 exactly? because of this? "Inherited from the Denon flagship AVR-X8500H, a sophisticated digital audio processing system that incorporates two dual SHARC+ core DSP chips is adopted on the AVR-X4700H allowing up to 11 channel audio processing and decoding capability at ease."

if so, I'll happily spend the extra 400 on this versus what I was previously considering. I also read the rave reviews of the monolith amps and was thinking about getting one of those, instead of the emotiva.

For me it is mainly the front HDMI input, 2 trigger outputs, a much better front display, and Auro3D. The front aux analog inputs are also a must (almost..), but you can't get them on any models now. I have those on my X4400H, I will probably keep it as a back up avr and/or use it in my two channel system for that reason, if and when I am ready to buy a new one. If those features are not important to you then the 3700 is just as good.

 

[TheReef510]

When I shopped for the 4700, I was able to get a 10% discount from Listenup.com. You may be able to find deals too. The price of the 4700 has jumped from $1699 retail to $2099 which seems crazy stupid to me. It shouldn't be too hard to find a deal better than 2099 with free shipping. Personally, I think Denon has pushed these prices to the limit. I wouldn't be surprised if these price hikes bring new competitor options. Happy hunting!

accessories4less has it for 1699 still. its a refurb but in this post covid/pre new variant covid, shortages, chip delays, inflation, war, whatever else is going on, i'll take it and hopefully its just a customer return and nothing too terrible.

I am very excited about getting the monolith though. I had no idea monoprice was in this audio space now. The last time I went to their website it was to get cheap but well built RCA cables lol to run from my Denon 3800BDCI blu-ray player to the Denon 3803 that's how far back it was the last time I put together a system.

 

[amper42]

I bought my Denon 4500 from Accessories for less. I though it would be a good way to save money. However, the amp section on the 4500 failed within 120 days of purchase. I can't recommend Denon refurb. The Denon refurb process is more about cleaning the outside rather than checking every feature. It's a gamble. AND the boxes used for Refurb shipping are less sturdy than the original factory box. That makes it easy for the unit to be damaged in shipping. Electronics can be damages without external dents so you may not notice you don't have a fully working unit until you finally add those height speakers for a 7.2.4 and the height speakers are intermittently crackling.

It took Denon 3 months to replace my receiver. I had to buy a 4700 in the meantime as I wasn't willing to wait for months without Home Theatre. That refurb ended up being my worst audio deal ever. The 1st time Denon Warranty shipped it back to me it was worse off than when I sent it in. Scratches everywhere and the front dented. I could not believe a quality repair person would do this kind of work. Denon worked on it again and decided it was not fixable and sent a replacement after I kept calling and calling plus emailing for status. My experience with Denon Warranty was less than glowing. I would never buy a Denon from Accessories for less again. Your experience may be better - but not worth the risk to me. Buying new is not much more and you are not getting something that was a return perhaps in need of repair.

 

[peng]

accessories4less has it for 1699 still. its a refurb but in this post covid/pre new variant covid, shortages, chip delays, inflation, war, whatever else is going on, i'll take it and hopefully its just a customer return and nothing too terrible.

I am very excited about getting the monolith though. I had no idea monoprice was in this audio space now. The last time I went to their website it was to get cheap but well built RCA cables lol to run from my Denon 3800BDCI blu-ray player to the Denon 3803 that's how far back it was the last time I put together a system.

I used to like the Monolith amps too, but since I started to pay attention to class D amps, I wouldn't consider those heavy class AB amps any more.

Take a look and you can see why

Before I gave the big one away, I AB listened to the two for a few days, no SQ difference to me whatsoever.

 

[luft262]

Hello, the last time I put together an A/V setup was around 2014, so I'm very much out of my element. I want to start out with a 7.2 setup, and eventually add wides/ ceiling speakers. For now, I'm going with (3) pairs of the Klipsch RP-600M, and (1) Klipsch RP-600C and SVS subwoofers TBD. I just am stuck on what AVR/external amp solution would be appropriate.

I was initially thinking about pairing the X4700H and getting (1) Emotiva BasX A3 and (1) BasX A4, and use the X4700H exclusively in pre-amp mode.
But then I'm a bit skittish about paying for amps I'll never use (since you cant have both pre-amp mode and use some of the amps later on).

So then comes the X8500H, which I would still pair with the Emotiva BasX A3 for my front stage, but use the internal amps to power the surrounds/surround backs, and future height channels and still get decent output. This is the only AVR that lets up toggle individual amps on/off in pre-amp mode, and if I get this, I wouldn't be 'wasting' the amp section of either AVR.

I know there's a capacitor issue with the X4700H depending on the build date, but otherwise, its a solid AVR.
My main question is, is there a "performance hit" using just some of the amps in the X8500H and defeating the LCR amps so that I can power those with the emotiva? Will I get as clean a signal doing this versus just running the X4700H in pre-amp mode, and adding amplifiers as I expand my setup?
The difference between the two setups arent all that dissimilar in price point, but I want the cleanest signal I can get, without stepping up to a true Pre-amp Pro, and balanced power amps.

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

I'd cut it down to a 5.1 system. Get better speakers, like something from KEF, Focal, or Revel for the fronts and center. Get two HSU, SVS, or Rhythmik subs. Get some generic coaxial ceiling speakers for the surrounds. Run all of it off the Denon 3700 or 4700. Also, get a Umik-1 if you don't already have one. IMHO having better mains, center, and subs will do much more for the system than having more surrounds and/or height speakers. My priorities would be #1 Mains, #2 Subs, #3 Center, #4 AVR, #5 Surrounds, but that's just me. I wouldn't buy any Klipsch product unless it had been reviewed and recommended here first. Most of their products are sonically broken. All of the brands I listed above are generally solid, but I'd still look for individual reviews here or at Erin's Audio Corner if possible.

 

[TheReef510]

I bought my Denon 4500 from Accessories for less. I though it would be a good way to save money. However, the amp section on the 4500 failed within 120 days of purchase. I can't recommend Denon refurb. The Denon refurb process is more about cleaning the outside rather than checking every feature. It's a gamble. AND the boxes used for Refurb shipping are less sturdy than the original factory box. That makes it easy for the unit to be damaged in shipping. Electronics can be damages without external dents so you may not notice you don't have a fully working unit until you finally add those height speakers for a 7.2.4 and the height speakers are intermittently crackling.

It took Denon 3 months to replace my receiver. I had to buy a 4700 in the meantime as I wasn't willing to wait for months without Home Theatre. That refurb ended up being my worst audio deal ever. The 1st time Denon Warranty shipped it back to me it was worse off than when I sent it in. Scratches everywhere and the front dented. I could not believe a quality repair person would do this kind of work. Denon worked on it again and decided it was not fixable and sent a replacement after I kept calling and calling plus emailing for status. My experience with Denon Warranty was less than glowing. I would never buy a Denon from Accessories for less again. Your experience may be better - but not worth the risk to me. Buying new is not much more and you are not getting something that was a return perhaps in need of repair.

WOW, holy crap thank you so much for posting this. I've been vying that site for weeks knowing I'd buy from there. I do NOT want the additional stress of anything breaking and having to ship it back and forth for a few hundred bucks off. I'm sorry you had to deal with all of that, but thank you for sharing

 

[Pogre]

I used to like the Monolith amps too, but since I started to pay attention to class D amps, I wouldn't consider those heavy class AB amps any more.

Take a look and you can see why

View attachment 199841

Before I gave the big one away, I AB listened to the two for a few days, no SQ difference to me whatsoever.

You make a strong argument sir!

I own a Mono 7 and love it, but probably would have gone class D if the ones that are out now were out when I was buying. I woulda got me one of those 3 x 500w (total overkill!) models for less money, to use for my front 3. Then just use my receiver for the surrounds.

 

[amper42]

I have the Monolith 7x200, March Audio Purifi P452 and Buckeye NC502MP. On a subjective sound basis, I don't hear a lot of difference between them. I actually prefer the Monolith 7x200 with the Denon 4700 as it's 28dB gain is a better match with the Denon internal amps than my Purifi or NC502MP. However, if you are not using any of the Denon internal amps it doesn't matter.

The case and build quality of the Monolith (ATI design) is certainly more substantial than the March Audio P452 or the NC502MP. The downside, is the weight of the 7x200 and the fact that it uses 140W in idle. It will be interesting to see which of these amps lasts longer. My guess is the ATI design will still be going strong long after the class D power supplies fail as they don't have the same longevity record.

The Buckeye NC502MP amps use to be inexpensive in comparison but now with the recent price increases they are a little more expensive than the Monolith 7x200 class AB amp on a per channel basis. The Monolith 7x200 is a tank. It's definitely a different level of build than the more DIY like class D cases and power supplies.

 

[Vacceo]

I used to like the Monolith amps too, but since I started to pay attention to class D amps, I wouldn't consider those heavy class AB amps any more.

Take a look and you can see why

View attachment 199841

Before I gave the big one away, I AB listened to the two for a few days, no SQ difference to me whatsoever.

I guess that if you want to squat with audio gear, might as well do so with a subwoofer or speakers. On them, size does matter.

 

[peng]

I have the Monolith 7x200, March Audio Purifi P452 and Buckeye NC502MP. On a subjective sound basis, I don't hear a lot of difference between them. I actually prefer the Monolith 7x200 with the Denon 4700 as it's 28dB gain is a better match with the Denon internal amps than my Purifi or NC502MP. However, if you are not using any of the Denon internal amps it doesn't matter.

The case and build quality of the Monolith (ATI design) is certainly more substantial than the March Audio P452 or the NC502MP. The downside, is the weight of the 7x200 and the fact that it uses 140W in idle. It will be interesting to see which of these amps lasts longer. My guess is the ATI design will still be going strong long after the class D power supplies fail as they don't have the same longevity record.

The Buckeye NC502MP amps use to be inexpensive in comparison but now with the recent price increases they are a little more expensive than the Monolith 7x200 class AB amp on a per channel basis. The Monolith 7x200 is a tank. It's definitely a different level of build than the more DIY like class D cases and power supplies.

On longevity, only time will tell. Comparing the physical builds would be difficult, almost futile, due to the very different design/topology. For gain, 26 dB vs 28 dB could be a concern for lesser preamp/processors but whether it practically means something significant would depend on many things such as speakers sensitivity, distance, and spl requirements, but mostly with whether the preamp/processor output can reach 2 V at THD+N below the threshold of audibility such as 75 dB SINAD, that's what all the Denon and Marantz AVRs (without using preamp mode), and AVP can do, so not really an issue for most people.

 

[TheReef510]

I have the opportunity to buy a gently used 4700H. the original owner never registered it with Denon and bought it from an authorized dealer. If I get it, can I register it and get the full factory warranty or no?

 

[amper42]

To make a warranty claim I had to provide the date of purchase and the name of the reseller. A copy of sales receipt may also be required. I doubt you could get a new warranty simply by registering it now. You could call Denon at 201-762-6665 and ask for guidance.

 

[bo_knows]

Call up Safe and sound hq and try to work out some deal on 8500h (or ask if they have an open box).

AVR-X8500H 13.2 Channel A/V Receiver with Auro-3D and HEOS

Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2 Channel A/V Receiver with Auro-3D and HEOS The Denon Flagship AVR-X8500H powers the next generation of home theater with the world s first 13.2 channel receiver that supports the latest immersive audio formats, including Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Auro-3D. Built-in HEOS...

www.safeandsoundhq.com

It's built like a tank, sounds amazing, and will have all the bells and whistles that you need.

In your small room, it will have enough power to blow you away with any speakers. LOL.

Buy once cry once.

You can thank me later.

 

[Dj7675]

Call up Safe and sound hq and try to work out some deal on 8500h (or ask if they have an open box).

AVR-X8500H 13.2 Channel A/V Receiver with Auro-3D and HEOS

Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2 Channel A/V Receiver with Auro-3D and HEOS The Denon Flagship AVR-X8500H powers the next generation of home theater with the world s first 13.2 channel receiver that supports the latest immersive audio formats, including Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Auro-3D. Built-in HEOS...

www.safeandsoundhq.com

It's built like a tank, sounds amazing, and will have all the bells and whistles that you need.

In your small room, it will have enough power to blow you away with any speakers. LOL.

Buy once cry once.

You can thank me later.

Second Safe and Sound... Best done by phone asking for "Open Box". Note that open box is sold with a regular manufacturer warranty (not refurb). Not sure I would ever consider a refurb with the shorter warranty on an expensive item like this.

 

[TheReef510]

I already bought my speakers from Safe and Sound!! they arrived in immaculate condition, and I will definitely call them tomorrow if they are open and see if I can work something out. Thank you!!

 

[TheReef510]

Just put in a call to Safe and Sound and got all of my speakers for an unbelievable price! I've been going to my local dealer for all my A/V needs for over a decade, even referred 5 friends to him, and they would not work with me at all on pricing out my equipment at a good rate. oh well, i guess greed can get the best of any of us. Thank you all so much, not only for helping me figure out my equipment list but for this wonderful reference of a company. I'm going on a short out of the country trip but after I return I'll put in an order for the 4700h

 

[Dj7675]

Just put in a call to Safe and Sound and got all of my speakers for an unbelievable price! I've been going to my local dealer for all my A/V needs for over a decade, even referred 5 friends to him, and they would not work with me at all on pricing out my equipment at a good rate. oh well, i guess greed can get the best of any of us. Thank you all so much, not only for helping me figure out my equipment list but for this wonderful reference of a company. I'm going on a short out of the country trip but after I return I'll put in an order for the 4700h

Happy you got a great deal. I've bought a few things there and they are really great to deal with. Had an issue with one item and they were helpful. It is a bummer that your local dealer didn't move on price at all. Purchasing via an internet dealer is a reality many haven't figured out how to cope with.

 

[TheReef510]

Happy you got a great deal. I've bought a few things there and they are really great to deal with. Had an issue with one item and they were helpful. It is a bummer that your local dealer didn't move on price at all. Purchasing via an internet dealer is a reality many haven't figured out how to cope with.

Not only did he not move on price, but tried to charge the current inflated prices. I was actually shocked. I thought it would be an easy transaction: I've bought these same exact speakers from him 3 years ago, I want them again. I was sure they'd just sell it to me at that same price. but they wanted a 32% markup. after a 15 year relationship where I and people I referred spent at least 50-60k over the last few years. When I pressed on the price, he said 'well what we sold you 3 years ago is now our cost' and in my mind i'm like so? sell it to me at cost as a thank you for the long relationship we have. I refuse to pay more for the exact same thing (unless its gasoline which I dont have a choice). anyway, I'm incredibly happy to have found this new place I can do business with.

 

[TheReef510]

A seller on Ebay is motivated to sell his open box 4700H for 1500 +shipping/taxes. I told him my concerns about the warranty coverage. He's willing to give me his sales receipt from listenup, and said he didnt register it. Is this a fair enough deal or should I just bite the bullet and by from an authorized reseller directly? Those places want 300 more for an open box 4700H