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Help me choose a pair of monitors (budget max €3500)

dshreter

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From the experiences you’ve described, I have a concern that you’re relating “I hear X bass really clearly, so Y position is effective.” You’re a self proclaimed bass head, so I suspect this experience you’re describing is finding yourself in a node and liking how prominently the bass pops - but don’t mistake this for a good response.

Ideally you want to keep working through the speaker and subwoofer placement until you have a relatively smooth response. And only then you can dial in EQ to increase the bass response to your taste.

One thing to also keep in mind is you will need to adjust the subwoofer phase as you move its location. If phase is set wrong, it can cause all kinds of issues so it can’t be ignored.

Good luck, keep going!
 
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fmessier6

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You guys have been really helpful, thank you all so much.

Sadly I did not save my first measurements with REW as many things were going through my head a few months/weeks ago, so all I have are the pictures I posted here. But I am saving all the measurements I'm taking so far, and learning from my mistakes.

Things are miles better than when I started, and this is also partially thanks to all of you.
 

Jaimo

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Before you get in too deep with measurements, consider using a calibrated measurement microphone. I'm not sure what the Rode"s response is like but without a calibration file for the mic entered into REW, you can only use these measurements as a relative assessment.

The easiest to set up and use mic option is the Mini-DSP UMK1.
 

LTig

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Before you get in too deep with measurements, consider using a calibrated measurement microphone. I'm not sure what the Rode"s response is like but without a calibration file for the mic entered into REW, you can only use these measurements as a relative assessment.

The easiest to set up and use mic option is the Mini-DSP UMK1.
As long as the mic is used to fix room problems (below Schroeder frequency) it needs not be calibrated.
 

jim33

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You should measure the speakers ( L+R ) one at a time. The dip shows you have massive bass phase cancellation due to reflections in your room. This hasn't changed when you changed speakers , just that the freq is different. You don't need to worry too much about a calibtrated mic. Adding a subwoofer without proper calibration and time alignment will just create more random problems. I'd suggest you contact GIK acoustics - they will offer professional advice tailored to your room and tell you what you need to buy. They have some good videos on youtube which explain your room issues.
 

Alex.mo

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Thank you all.

Yesterday I installed a 120'' projector screen, the whole process took around eight hours.

For some reason I noticed that the audio and bass response of my speakers improved significantly.
Playing the tracks where I was hearing bass cancellation (around 40-80 Hz), now I'm hearing some bass, enough to perceive it. There is still some cancellation, but things are miles better. If I lean forward, even better (but not really ergonomic).

Theoretically I re-placed the speakers very close to their original position, and I'm trying to figure out what happened here. Before I experimented with different speaker positions (going 10 cm to the left, 10 to the right) without any difference whatsoever, and now BAM! things are miles better.

View attachment 185734
What kind of projector screen do you have? I recently got a GooDee Video Projector 230" HD and am seeking for a suitable screen. By now, I've decided on this one: https://houseandbeyond.org/best-projector-screen/#product2, however, I'm wondering whether there's a better one that will work with my projector.
 

skeptastic

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My 2c - once you get any reasonably well-performing speakers most of the additional sound quality increase IMHO comes from room EQ and proper subwoofer integration. This is where IME very large performance gains can be achieved.

IMHO Rode NT55 with the omni capsule will likely work just fine for basic room EQ in low frequencies (though I would still suggest to get a properly calibrated measurement mic if you can afford the additional expense).
May I suggest to have a look at this post where I compared how a Rode NT2A large-diaphragm condenser in omni mode compares to a calibrated measurement microphone for in-room response measurement. Even though the microphones are very different in construction, you will see the measured responses match really well in the lower frequencies - which is anyway the part of the spectrum where you'd normally apply room EQ.

As a basis for calculating room EQ filters I'd suggest to use the moving microphone method (MMM) instead of doing sweep measurements.
The rough procedure is:
  • Use the "Generator" tool in REW to play full range Noise/Pink Periodic signal through one of your loudspeakers:
    View attachment 176629
  • You should be measuring at the main listening position with the microphone held in your hand, always pointing the microphone capsule vertically (to the ceiling or floor; use 90° microphone calibration file), and slowly moving the mic in random spiral motions with a radius of say ~50cm around where your head would normally be while listening.
    Ponting the microphone vertically is important as that way you get the same amount of reflections from all side walls.
    It is good practice to try to keep the microphone not too close to your body (or other obstacles) while measuring, and there should be no obstacles in the direct sound path between the microphone and the loudspeakers being measured.
    This article is IMO also a nice read on the MMM method.
  • Use the "RTA" view in REW to record the signal with your microphone, use the following settings:
    View attachment 176631
    You can stop recording when you reach 30 or so averages in the bottom left corner (the response usually settles even before that):
    View attachment 176632
    Then you can save the current measured response by clicking "Current":
    View attachment 176633
    After which it will show up on the left side of the main REW window.
  • If all went well, you should be getting a frequency response that looks something like this:
    View attachment 176634
  • Now repeat the same steps to measure the in-room frequency response of the other loudspeaker, and you can also do a third run to measure L+R together by selecting both outputs in REW 'Generator' window:
    View attachment 176635
  • After you measured L and R in-room responses with MMM you can proceed to calculate PEQ filters to fix main resonance peaks. You do this by clicking on the appropriate measurement in REW left-hand side and then clicking on the "EQ" tool.
  • To generate the PEQ filters you should select the desired response smoothing, configure your target and the parameters for filter generation.
    If you're listening in nearfield I'd suggest to start with:
    • Flat target (Target type 'none', room curve deselected), level will depend on your measurement level
    • Smoothing set to "Var",
    • Filter tasks configured to only generate corrections below 350Hz or so, boost filters not allowed. Note that this will not fix response dips - these are better fixed by tweaking loudspeaker/MLP position (and subwoofer integration, if you have a sub), so if you have significant dips in the raw measured response first find positions that shows the least severe dips (peaks are OK as you can easily knock those down with negative EQ) - this will likely require remeasuring several times before actually calculating PEQ filters.
    • You calculate required PEQ filters by clicking 'Match response to target'. See an example of EQ generation settings below:
      View attachment 176638
    • You'd need to generate a similar set of filters for each loudspeaker individually, and then apply them with a PEQ-capable SW (e.g. Equalizer APO) or through a dedicated DSP unit with PEQ capability (e.g. various miniDSP units) to each loudspeaker playback channel.
Hope this helps and good luck!
Hello everyone! I've been lurking for there past week, and this will be my first post. Is either the PEQ-capable software or dedicated DSP typically recommended as the preferred method of applying the filters to each monitor? In addition, is there a how-to posted somewhere in the forum that describes how to use either method of applying the monitor EQ filters? After a lengthy hiatus, I am getting back into audio recording and mixing, but have zero experience with using a DSP device or applying EQ filters to monitors via software.

Thank you all for the wealth of information contained in these threads. You've certainly helped me narrow down my gear list, and now I am just trying to figure out what will be needed to get right to proper room EQ. I'm going to start out with a pair of monitors (currently deciding between Kali LP/IN, Focal Alpha Evo, and Yamaha HS8), and look into subwoofer integration down the line. For now, I just want to get up and running, so my goal is to better understand how the room EQ process works and what equipment or tools I need to get started. I've got an appropriate measurement mic on order, it's just the SW and/or dedicated DSP unit I am confused about.

Edit: In the meantime, I just discovered a thread another newbie to the forum posted. They were directed to the room acoustics forum, and I see the Room EQ for Dummies tutorial. On it!
 
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