• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Help me choose a pair of monitors (budget max €3500)

lowkeyoperations

Active Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Messages
298
Likes
289
The KH310s are good speakers, but you won’t get the best out of them- or any other similar sized monitor- without treating your room, or perhaps using sonarworks/room eq. You have close to 40dB between your peaks and nulls. That’s not feasible to mix on.

Questeds, PSI, whatever, won’t fix that.

On top of that you are trying to achieve two different experiences in the room. 1. Some mixing/composing and 2. Watching movies with a lot of bass.

I think you should return the KH310s while you can, unless you are prepared to install bass traps in all corners of your room.

Instead, try a sub with your existing monitors. Mix without the sub, or with it barely there. You need accuracy more than anything when mixing or every decision you make will be wrong.

When you watch movies, turn the sub up and sit in your favourite bass node.
 

dfuller

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
3,340
Likes
5,063
Fact of the matter is, in that room you're going to need treatment, and a lot of it. It'll cut down on space, but it will dramatically improve what you're hearing. Now of course the problem is that bass treatment requires massive absorbers or tuned traps along with corrective EQ...
 

dshreter

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
794
Likes
1,226
You still shouldn’t be down on your speaker selection. Conventionally you high-pass your monitors and delegate bass duty to the subwoofer(s). But that’s not the only option and in a very small room you won’t be anywhere close to SPL limited running the KH 310s full range.

When you eventually integrate a sub I would suggest keeping the monitors full range. This will let you blend the response, and you can fill the current nulls with the subwoofer and fill nulls in the subwoofer response with the KH 310s. That’s a benefit to now having a speaker with closer to full range response.

Yes this will take some effort, but if you’re using the room for mixing it is certainly worthwhile. You have a difficult room, but that doesn’t mean it is a mistake to have the right tools.
 

jim33

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
37
Likes
23
If you can't afford the room treatment by keeping them , then send them back and spend the money on treatment and a subwoofer. Your experiencing these issues as the neumanns are producing more bass than your previous speakers , but its just highlighting the flaws in your room. Quested will do the same. You can always buy something again in a years time. OR - keep them , as they are well respected studio monitors and get busy with some DIY room treatment. You've got too many acoustic problems to try and fix with Sonarworks alone - but at least you've got the space for a studio :)
 

Pearljam5000

Master Contributor
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
5,127
Likes
5,356
HS8 was one of the worst monitors i have ever heard so it's a little concerning you don't hear a big difference between it and KH310
 

RobL

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 4, 2021
Messages
926
Likes
1,509
HS8 was one of the worst monitors i have ever heard so it's a little concerning you don't hear a big difference between it and KH310
What didn't you like about it? It looks pretty decent to me, haven’t heard them though. Going by the posted fr, him not hearing jaw-dropping differences sounds reasonable to me.
 

Attachments

  • F8187B33-6CC6-4047-AF90-899CCDD47997.png
    F8187B33-6CC6-4047-AF90-899CCDD47997.png
    111.7 KB · Views: 111

Pearljam5000

Master Contributor
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
5,127
Likes
5,356
What didn't you like about it? It looks pretty decent to me, haven’t heard them though. Going by the posted fr, him not hearing jaw-dropping differences sounds reasonable to me.
I guess measurements don't tell the whole story
 

RobL

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 4, 2021
Messages
926
Likes
1,509
He sounds like he has a bit of buyers remorse for spending so much on these monitors. He obviously had his heart set on the Quested. I haven’t seen anyone demonstrate why the Quested would be a horrible choice, if it were me and I were buying these as a gift to myself I’d pony up and buy the ones I’d be happiest with.
 

Pearljam5000

Master Contributor
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
5,127
Likes
5,356
He sounds like he has a bit of buyers remorse for spending so much on these monitors. He obviously had his heart set on the Quested. I haven’t seen anyone demonstrate why the Quested would be a horrible choice, if it were me and I were buying these as a gift to myself I’d pony up and buy the ones I’d be happiest with.
I heard a lot of monitors in my life
My favorites always were Genelec, Neumann and Focal
Didn't care for Quested or Yamaha
 

lowkeyoperations

Active Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Messages
298
Likes
289
^ive always hated Genelec. Treble too strong for me. Neumann not too bad but too hifi. Amphion great. Yamaha though…yeah I agree. But that’s all subjective.

TBH I’d be going for a small 2 way system in an untreated room like this and use them in super nearfield, like less than 1m, to reduce the effects of the room in this case. Then when watching movies turn on your sub for fun.

Back when I had the Amphion One15s in a pretty ordinary room at home during the first COVID lockdown, I used to stand in the corner of the room where it sounded like a little nightclub because of the nodes just to get the vibe going :p

But I also understand sometimes you just want to buy something new. The KH310S are good monitors. Over time with DIY treatment and fine tuning locations I’m sure the outcome would beat the Yamahas.
 

dfuller

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
3,340
Likes
5,063
What didn't you like about it? It looks pretty decent to me, haven’t heard them though. Going by the posted fr, him not hearing jaw-dropping differences sounds reasonable to me.
The FR does not tell the whole story here, I'm afraid. The HS8s are very messy sounding in the low mids. Not resonances, just sloppy sounding - the driver and cabinet combo seems to just have long settle times.
 
OP
F

fmessier6

Active Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Messages
128
Likes
46
Thank you all for your replies.

Despite being frustrated by the process, I realize that with all your help and suggestions you've given me, you saved me additional weeks of trial and error, and useless additional frustration.

I posticipated any more tests because I spent most of the day diagnosing a crackle when turning the volume knob in my Komplete Audio 2, the main reason I replaced it with my Scarlett 2i2.

A light "Krrrr" sound like there's dust in it. This Komplete interface is only two months old but this behaviour is very annoying and I haven't been able to diagnose and solve the problem today.

On a positive note, I'm starting to slowly notice the differences between my HS8 and the KH310. Their destiny will be decided in a few days.

The things that I have learned from this four months experience:
  • Room acoustics have a tremendous effect on bass presence and volume
  • When buying a new set of speakers, it might be helpful to have a monitor controller in order to A/B test them
  • For deep powerful bass, at least one sub is a requirement and no 8'' monitor will make the ground shake
My next steps:

I'm not sure. I would love to order a subwoofer right now if it came here within a reasonable timeframe. I was thinking the KRK S12G4, I believe it's the cheapest 12'' woofer on Thomann.com, with a frequency range of 26 - 97 Hz (at least that's what the manufacturer says).

This is the Subwoofer section on Thomann.com, if you have better suggestions I'm all ears (= "don't buy a 12'', stick with a 10'', the difference will be marginal" etc.)

I'll need to order this sub tonight or tomorrow if I want it to be here in a reasonable timeframe.

My ideal preference for movies are LOTS of bass, normal level mids, tamed/warm highs. At a high volume, highs pierce my ears.
I react negatively to high volume in general, especially highs. Bass is psychologically comforting, don't ask me why.

So a sub would help in the sense that it could help achieve a decent bass volume even at an overall medium sound volume, am I correct? To achieve the same amount of bass with speakers I would have to turn up the volume a little more than I'd like.

Anyway, at the moment I'm facing too many choices and I'd rather do something that moves me forward than being paralyzed by analyzing each pros and each cons.

Some random studio pictures from today:

Studio_2.jpg
Studio_1.jpg


The KH310 on the desk + my arms/elbows on the desk = pure bass perfection. Ridiculous, but fun nevertheless.
 

Septentrio

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 4, 2020
Messages
64
Likes
88
Location
Portugal
Don't give up on those Neumanns. Those are world class monitors. Take your time and take measurements like more knowledgeable members have suggested. Just 'cause Zimmer uses those Quested ones...I reckon those would be more difficult to EQ without a waveguide...
 

Pearljam5000

Master Contributor
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
5,127
Likes
5,356
On a positive note, I'm starting to slowly notice the differences between my HS8 and the KH310. Their destiny will be decided in a few days.

The things that I have learned from this four months experience:
  • Room acoustics have a tremendous effect on bass presence and volume
  • When buying a new set of speakers, it might be helpful to have a monitor controller in order to A/B test them
  • For deep powerful bass, at least one sub is a requirement and no 8'' monitor will make the ground shake
My next steps:

I'm not sure. I would love to order a subwoofer right now if it came here within a reasonable timeframe. I was thinking the KRK S12G4, I believe it's the cheapest 12'' woofer on Thomann.com, with a frequency range of 26 - 97 Hz (at least that's what the manufacturer says).

This is the Subwoofer section on Thomann.com, if you have better suggestions I'm all ears (= "don't buy a 12'', stick with a 10'', the difference will be marginal" etc.)

I'll need to order this sub tonight or tomorrow if I want it to be here in a reasonable timeframe.

My ideal preference for movies are LOTS of bass, normal level mids, tamed/warm highs. At a high volume, highs pierce my ears.
I react negatively to high volume in general, especially highs. Bass is psychologically comforting, don't ask me why.

So a sub would help in the sense that it could help achieve a decent bass volume even at an overall medium sound volume, am I correct? To achieve the same amount of bass with speakers I would have to turn up the volume a little more than I'd like.

Anyway, at the moment I'm facing too many choices and I'd rather do something that moves me forward than being paralyzed by analyzing each pros and each cons.

Some random studio pictures from today:

View attachment 177482View attachment 177481

The KH310 on the desk + my arms/elbows on the desk = pure bass perfection. Ridiculous, but fun nevertheless.
What are the differences?
 

LTig

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
5,760
Likes
9,442
Location
Europe
[..]
My next steps:

I'm not sure. I would love to order a subwoofer right now if it came here within a reasonable timeframe. I was thinking the KRK S12G4, I believe it's the cheapest 12'' woofer on Thomann.com, with a frequency range of 26 - 97 Hz (at least that's what the manufacturer says).

This is the Subwoofer section on Thomann.com, if you have better suggestions I'm all ears (= "don't buy a 12'', stick with a 10'', the difference will be marginal" etc.)
Check the Kali WS12, it might be the better choice (more power/SPL).
 
OP
F

fmessier6

Active Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Messages
128
Likes
46
Check the Kali WS12, it might be the better choice (more power/SPL).

Thank you, unfortunately it will be in stock in 2-5 days, plus a week of shipping, which is too much at the moment.

How significant is the difference between a 10'' woofer and a 12'' one?

I'm undecided between the KRK12 or the 10 variant, as well as the Presonus tremblor, which are €200 cheaper.

The KRK12 goes down to 26 Hz, the 10 to 30 Hz, assuming they are not lying about the specs.

Also, these things are heavy!

What are the differences?

Let me buy a monitor controller in order to do some proper A/B test and report back! :)
 

LTig

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
5,760
Likes
9,442
Location
Europe
The KRK12 goes down to 26 Hz, the 10 to 30 Hz, assuming they are not lying about the specs.
The KRK specs for FR are incomplete, could be -3 dB, -10 dB or more. I have more trust into the specs of Kali.
 
Top Bottom