Help me choose a pair of monitors (budget max €3500)

[fmessier6]

Thank you LTig for your insight and for always being really helpful.

I didn't want to rush things, but having this speaker here, I couldn't wait to feed him some music (who couldn't?) and I started some tests already, but it's pretty pointless to be honest, you don't get the full picture.

For now I keep switching A/B - L/R with the HS8, and sometimes I even feel that on the HS8s the mids are more compact and grouped on them.
The bass is better on the KH310, but not €3500-later better. But again, maybe these comparisons are silly and the best thing would be to purchase a monitor controller and do a stereo A/B.

These issues (the woofer not handling some bass frequencies with my volume on 60%) are quite concerning, but maybe it's an expected behaviour. Another user a few posts up, dfuller, was experiencing the same with the track I was using, but playing with both speakers he mentioned that the problem disappeared (due to lowering the overall volume, I suppose, and not forcing a single speaker to handle everything).

It would be interesting if he ran the same test with the second track I used (Hans Zimmer - Why So Serious?) which showed an even worse distortion on my right speaker.

Otherwise you're a candidate either for the KH420s or at least one sub.

Sadly I'll have to take a step back. With the KH310 I blew my budget as I went over €3700.

A sub might be an option, but the bass on my single KH310 is really solid so far, more defined and stronger than the one of the HS8.

I'm very cautious here, but I think I could be happy with just the KH310s. Different users on different forums mentioned they were satisfied with their overall bass output.

The Left KH310 will arrive on Tuesday.

 

[dfuller]

Thank you LTig for your insight and for always being really helpful.

I didn't want to rush things, but having this speaker here, I couldn't wait to feed him some music (who couldn't?) and I started some tests already, but it's pretty pointless to be honest, you don't get the full picture.

For now I keep switching A/B - L/R with the HS8, and sometimes I even feel that on the HS8s the mids are more compact and grouped on them.
The bass is better on the KH310, but not €3500-later better. But again, maybe these comparisons are silly and the best thing would be to purchase a monitor controller and do a stereo A/B.

These issues (the woofer not handling some bass frequencies with my volume on 60%) are quite concerning, but maybe it's an expected behaviour. Another user a few posts up, dfuller, was experiencing the same with the track I was using, but playing with both speakers he mentioned that the problem disappeared (due to lowering the overall volume, I suppose, and not forcing a single speaker to handle everything).

It would be interesting if he ran the same test with the second track I used (Hans Zimmer - Why So Serious?) which showed an even worse distortion on my right speaker.



Sadly I'll have to take a step back. With the KH310 I blew my budget as I went over €3700.

A sub might be an option, but the bass on my single KH310 is really solid so far, more defined and stronger than the one of the HS8.

I'm very cautious here, but I think I could be happy with just the KH310s. Different users on different forums mentioned they were satisfied with their overall bass output.

The Left KH310 will arrive on Tuesday.

I may have different ideas of "loud" from you - but at the level I got one KH310 to be unhappy would have been completely unbearable with two. This second track, it's the same story - that sub bass is a limiting factor, but only when on one speaker.

 

[LTig]

Same issue in Why So Serious? by Hans Zimmer, from the Dark Knight soundtrack, from 03'30''.

Yeah, lots of deep bass around 35 Hz:

 

[LTig]

EDIT: At a medium amount of volume, I also experienced audible distortion from the woofer on this piece (I used a non compressed FLAC version) Kiasmos - Swept (Tale Of Us Remix). The HS8 did just fine.
It's difficult to describe it but it looks like the woofer wasn't able to reproduce the kick drum correctly at a listening volume.

There's a lot of bass below 60 Hz:

I captured this with a microphone: https://voca.ro/1f2VPCtUVLwm

Just realizer that you had a recording. I compared the track and your recording using my EQed AKG K371 (best bass performance available here). Yes, my K&H O300D sound similar if the woofer is driven into clipping. It happened to me after I got an AVR and made a mistake in the configuration (speakers set to large). Audissey corrected the room but did not use the sub for music, and when I played something similar the woofer clipped. Setting the speakers to small fixed it.

 

[dfuller]

KH310s are pretty SPL limited down below 60hz. They'll extend low, but without a ton of volume. I've got a sub on the way now just to take that real bottom off the woofers.

 

[arn]

Get a speaker with 10-15 inch woofer, the effortless sounding of the bigger speakers is incomparable. I guess, this is, what you are looking for.

 

[fmessier6]

Get a speaker with 10-15 inch woofer, the effortless sounding of the bigger speakers is incomparable. I guess, this is, what you are looking for.

I couldn't find a studio monitor with a woofer larger than 10'' within my price range (max €3500) on Thomann.com.
The only candidate was the KRK Rokit RP10-3 G4.

The price was really attractive but I figured there must have been some sort of compromise for having a 20 kg studio monitor with a ten-inch woofer cost only €450 ?

 

[fmessier6]

I may have different ideas of "loud" from you - but at the level I got one KH310 to be unhappy would have been completely unbearable with two. This second track, it's the same story - that sub bass is a limiting factor, but only when on one speaker.

Thank you dfuller for taking time to test this track, I appreciated it. The problem disappears because of the 6dB gain from having both monitors play simultaneously?

I'd like to avoid returning these to be honest, I need to get back to work asap, but first I want to make sure that this clipping issue won't be a problem down the road, and for this I'll need to wait until Tuesday. On Tuesday evening I will report back. Maybe this will go away and it will be the start of a fantastic few years with these highly praised speakers.

The KH310 were recommended from many of you in this very topic, almost unanimously, and my initial request was speakers that handled bass well (in my first message, I mentioned the word "bass" six times).
So seeing this issue (especially NOT seeing it in the cheaper HS8s) it makes me wonder: was there a better choice in my price range (€3500) ?

I've seen a lot of praise for the bass extension and presence of the Quested v2108, but they have a similar SPL value on Thomann and they only go down to 40 hz.

 

[caught gesture]

Thank you dfuller for taking time to test this track, I appreciated it. The problem disappears because of the 6dB gain from having both monitors play simultaneously?

I'd like to avoid returning these to be honest, I need to get back to work asap, but first I want to make sure that this clipping issue won't be a problem down the road, and for this I'll need to wait until Tuesday. On Tuesday evening I will report back. Maybe this will go away and it will be the start of a fantastic few years with these highly praised speakers.

The KH310 were recommended from many of you in this very topic, almost unanimously, and my initial request was speakers that handled bass well (in my first message, I mentioned the word "bass" six times).
So seeing this issue (especially NOT seeing it in the cheaper HS8s) it makes me wonder: was there a better choice in my price range (€3500) ?

I've seen a lot of praise for the bass extension and presence of the Quested v2108, but they have a similar SPL value on Thomann and they only go down to 40 hz.

Asking an 8 1/4" driver to reproduce a frequency in the low 30Hz, and then wanting volume as well, is asking the impossible. The laws of physics just cannot be overcome. The KH310 is trying though (and there is only one of them!) but you are hearing the distortion. I would surmise that the HS8 is not even trying to play the fundamental and you are only hearing the harmonics through them. I think that you’ll be impressed when you have both monitors set up in the nearfield. Finding monitors that play full range will cost you multiples of what you have paid and even then they will require subwoofer extensions to be considered truly full range.

 

[fmessier6]

Asking an 8 1/4" driver to reproduce a frequency in the low 30Hz, and then wanting volume as well, is asking the impossible. The laws of physics just cannot be overcome. The KH310 is trying though (and there is only one of them!) but you are hearing the distortion. I would surmise that the HS8 is not even trying to play the fundamental and you are only hearing the harmonics through them. I think that you’ll be impressed when you have both monitors set up in the nearfield. Finding monitors that play full range will cost you multiples of what you have paid and even then they will require subwoofer extensions to be considered truly full range.

Thank you for educating me on this matter

 

[Pearljam5000]

Thank you for educating me on this matter

Wait until you have 2 of them, that's the only real test

 

[dfuller]

Asking an 8 1/4" driver to reproduce a frequency in the low 30Hz, and then wanting volume as well, is asking the impossible.

It certainly is with a sealed alignment! Less so with a port, but even then.

 

[LTig]

Maybe a cheap sub like the JBL LSR310S (~ €400) is enough to fulfill the needs of the OP. It's not designed to go real deep (maybe not deeper than the KH310) but it can take the load of the deepest frequencies.

 

[arn]

I couldn't find a studio monitor with a woofer larger than 10'' within my price range (max €3500) on Thomann.com.
The only candidate was the KRK Rokit RP10-3 G4.

The price was really attractive but I figured there must have been some sort of compromise for having a 20 kg studio monitor with a ten-inch woofer cost only €450 ?

Unfortunately you have to step up in prices, the genelec 1032, and the focal trio 11 is the cheapest remarkable option at 10 inch. The 12 inch speakers are classified as main speaker, they are even more expensive. Listen some, and you will see, this is what you are looking for and compare it with the smaller speaker + sub combo.

The smaller woofer cannot handle well the higher spl peaks, you will hear them thinner, and smaller.

 

[Deleted member 23982]

i really think you should do room treatment first, there is alot of improvement you can get, maybe even bigger changes than new speakers...
for example, put your desk in such a way that you face the wall behind you, speakers 50-100cm away from the wall, (the close wall behind which the speakers are facing will give you nothing good) probably even better to use the wall where your piano stands so you avoid the window in the corner which may give you assymetrical fr response

or maybe even use the window wall, that way you have a symetrical ceiling, it all depends and ultimatily needs testing around without measurement equip

its a really bad setup imo, no furniture, no treatment like at all and speaker placement can be improved too, this will give you alot of headroom for improvement tho you need to hear the difference between treated and not treated at all to understand what it really can do

 

[fmessier6]

its a really bad setup imo, no furniture, no treatment like at all and speaker placement can be improved too, this will give you alot of headroom for improvement tho

Psychologically it does wonders though, and to me it's the main priority since I do a lot of creative work in that room.

Having direct visual contact with the door is a must for me, au contraire having it behind me is a direct train to anxietyville. Putting the desk in the middle of the room thus having some space in front of me is more relaxing as well, instead of facing a wall like a patient of a psychiatric hospital.

This is just to elaborate a little, I didn't just slap a desk in the middle of the room and called it a day

But on one thing I was wrong perhaps: I assumed that the further away from a wall the rear part of the speakers were, the better. I don't know why, maybe because when I started making music years ago I had a cheap pair of KRK5 and they were placed against a wall, and the bass response was atrocious, and headache-inducing.

Room treatment will follow this year!

 

[Deleted member 23982]

But on one thing I was wrong perhaps: I assumed that the further away from a wall the rear part of the speakers were, the better. I don't know why, maybe because when I started making music years ago I had a cheap pair of KRK5 and they were placed against a wall, and the bass response was atrocious, and headache-inducing.

no you are right (kinda) but for a good bass response 1m away from the wall should be plenty to eliminate (most of) it BUT the close wall behind you will give basicly this -> the wall is so close to your listening position that the reverb of this wall and the "direct sound" of the speakers will "melt together" giving you "sound mush",

if you let the speakers face "into" the room, the sound will have more room leading to
1. reverb will take longer and it will be easier for the brain to distingish actual reverb and direct sound instead of getting one "sound mush"
2. travel distance of sound will reduce volume and therefore reverb at the listening position
3. audio should sound actually "more spacious" with better soundstage

the thing also to consider is, whats better "a little problematic" in bass or pretty much problematic over the whole FR tho it doesnt help for everything, you still need room treating

but i think, with critical listening, placing your desk on the window wall (speakers with 1m distance to the wall) should give you a clear FR/reverb improvement already, even with no treating but i could be wrong and your untreated room still masks the placement improvement

but you sound certain, idk where the door is but maybe using the piano wall would be a compromise you could do (tho i really recommend trying the window wall because of the ceiling, also its recommended to use the short wall if you have an rectangle room) and if you really dont wanna change your desk position put atleast like a heavy rug behind you on the wall

you can also test overall reverb with clapping your hands, you may even not have as bad reverb because of the ceiling i imagine (because sound will bounce off more walls because of the angles instead of going "straight" back like in usual rooms)

 

[fmessier6]

Thank you Ghoostknight. I think it's worth uploading an updated picture of my studio, as it is today, with a wide angle and more light.

The only missing thing is another tall Ikea plant right on my left.

you can also test overall reverb with clapping your hands

I did it last year when the room was almost empty, and the result was surprisingly dry, for some reason. I was expecting worse.

 

[Deleted member 23982]

oh wait, i got completly confused by the picture on page 1 .... i thought i replied to a another guy lol, i already answered you in another thread right? im sorry for the confusion ....

 

[dfuller]

Thank you Ghoostknight. I think it's worth uploading an updated picture of my studio, as it is today, with a wide angle and more light.

The only missing thing is another tall Ikea plant right on my left.

View attachment 175949



I did it last year when the room was almost empty, and the result was surprisingly dry, for some reason. I was expecting worse.

Okay, yeah I see why you're having bass problems. I'd recommend turning everything 180 degrees - speakers closer to the wall than you.