Help interpret measurements - KEF Reference 5 vs. Revel Performa F228Be

[73hadd]

Hi all,

I'll start by saying thanks, the quality of content here is amazing.

I'm looking at these two speakers:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-reference-5-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-performa-f228be-loudspeaker-measurements

The subjective reviews favor the Revel (Class A and 2019 product of the year)
The objective data favors the KEF, or am I missing something?

Thank you,

73hadd

 

[QMuse]

Hi all,

I'll start by saying thanks, the quality of content here is amazing.

I'm looking at these two speakers:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-reference-5-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-performa-f228be-loudspeaker-measurements

The subjective reviews favor the Revel (Class A and 2019 product of the year)
The objective data favors the KEF, or am I missing something?

Thank you,

73hadd

I'd be carefull with the conclusion that objective data favors Kef. For example, KEF's lateral response may seem smoother but is is also not as wide as F228Be's, and many folks actually prefer wider horizontal dispersion.

I advise you to try to listen to both of them (side by side if possible) and check by yourself.

 

[73hadd]

Yes, initially I was looking at the total extension, but the width/difference at 10-15khz is noticeable. That is really far off axis though. It's hard to really stare into the lines but isn't the KEF holding up flatter up to 30 degrees? Yes for reflective rooms or off-axis I see the width as being helpful.

 

[QMuse]

Yes, initially I was looking at the total extension, but the width/difference at 10-15khz is noticeable. That is really far off axis though. It's hard to really stare into the lines but isn't the KEF holding up flatter up to 30 degrees? Yes for reflective rooms or off-axis I see the width as being helpful.

IMHO opinion wide and smooth early reflections response is important for any kind of room except anechoic chamber.

 

[napilopez]

I'd be carefull with the conclusion that objective data favors Kef. For example, KEF's lateral response may seem smoother but is is also not so wide as F228Be and many folks actually prefer wider horizontal dispersion.

I advise you to try to listen to both of them (side by side if possible) and check by yourself.

Yes, initially I was looking at the total extension, but the width/difference at 10-15khz is noticeable. That is really far off axis though. It's hard to really stare into the lines but isn't the KEF holding up flatter up to 30 degrees? Yes for reflective rooms or off-axis I see the width as being helpful.

I agree with everything QMuse said -- I think they are too close to know which one is better unless you know your preference on directivity.

You can see the KEF is clearly a narrower directivity design because of how much steeper the off axis curves are. The KEF is roughly 20 db down within the 3 to 8khz region at 90 degrees, while the revel is down about 15dB.

But you can also crossfire narrower directivity speakers to increase the sweetspot and sidewall reflections. So pick your poison =]

 

[73hadd]

This helps. I do see that F228Be lateral response similarity in other graphs from other manufacturers. Almost identical to the F208 interestingly.

Staring into it again the KEF for sure stays flat for more degrees off axis. However the listening tests and other data seem to be reinforcing that the flatness in that range alone will not induce the desired listener response.

 

[tuga]

Hi all,

I'll start by saying thanks, the quality of content here is amazing.

I'm looking at these two speakers:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-reference-5-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-performa-f228be-loudspeaker-measurements

The subjective reviews favor the Revel (Class A and 2019 product of the year)
The objective data favors the KEF, or am I missing something?

Thank you,

73hadd

Ignore the subjective reviews.

The objective data does favour the Kef slightly. Smoother off-axis horizontal response, much more even off-axis vertical response, slightly cleaner decay where the ear is most sensitive (the Revel mid seems to ring a bit).

Directivity is a matter of preference. You must listen and decide.

 

[73hadd]

Again very helpful. I have a thread about Time Domain (that may have drifted off topic) but seems the consensus is:

1. It's measurable
2. It might matter, as long as other things are done well

KEF:



Revel F228Be:

 

[amirm]

If you are in US, send me whichever you buy to measure.

 

[Certainkindoffool]

Hi all,

I'll start by saying thanks, the quality of content here is amazing.

I'm looking at these two speakers:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-reference-5-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-performa-f228be-loudspeaker-measurements

The subjective reviews favor the Revel (Class A and 2019 product of the year)
The objective data favors the KEF, or am I missing something?

Thank you,

73hadd

I think that depends on where you draw the line at data. The Kef's have a significantly higher msrp. Not that price is a particularly useful measure of performance. But, the differences between those measurements is not commensurate with the price disparity.

However, as someone who is currently staring at a pair of f208s...i would much rather be looking at a pair of Kef Reference 5s.

 

[Voo]

I wouldnt spend that much money without listening 1st in your home...or at very least a demo. I listened to the be and like 206 better.

 

[QMuse]

Again very helpful. I have a thread about Time Domain (that may have drifted off topic) but seems the consensus is:

1. It's measurable
2. It might matter, as long as other things are done well

KEF:

View attachment 61387

Revel F228Be:

View attachment 61388

I woulnd't worry about these, proper room EQ that does time domain correction would make them both look equal.

 

[MZKM]

Since they are pretty similar (the KEF will have a bit less energy ~10kHz in-room, unless EQ’d), I would go whichever looks nicer to you, as you will have to look at it and show it off to others, for me it’s the KEF wins hands down. However, if you don‘t have a subwoofer(s), the Revel does have a bit deeper bass.

 

[thewas]

As @napilopez wrote the biggest difference is their width of radiation/directivity, so you must find what you prefer and/or works in your room better, a rather more wide or narrow radiation with the connected sound characteristics (brighter voicing and bigger but less pinpoint soundstage vs. the opposites).

 

[LDKTA]

Interesting comparison. Both are truly excellent loudspeakers and you cannot go wrong with either of them. However, as I'm sure you know, the F228Be's are literally half the price of the Reference 5's. The comparison is still valid considering the caliber of loudspeakers you're looking at but it'll come down to your personal preference. I'd go with the F228Be's (they are that good), save some coin and add subwoofers, an EQ/DSP and whatever else you'd like. Of course, with the KEFs, you'd get the benefits of a very well designed concentric driver as well. Really though, you should be comparing the Reference 5 with the Salon2... and even then, I'd go with the Salon2's.

 

[Ron Texas]

I wouldn't be surprised if the KEF R11 is 98% as good as the R5 for $5500 instead of $20k. If I were throwing the big bucks around I would be looking at D&D 8c's, M2's, or Salon 2's.

 

[tuga]

Same is true for the f208.

 

[aarons915]

The other thing to consider that doesn't affect sound quality as much are how solid the Reference cabinets are compared to the Revel. The be cabinets seem to be identical to the original performa 3 series, which isn't bad but not great for the money you're paying in my opinion. The F228 weigh 82 lbs compared to 132 lbs for the Reference 5, they're some of the most solid cabinets you'll find.

 

[massimo1974]

I agree with whom pointed out the big difference in msrp. KEF doubles Revel, and even if price is not always a solid indicator, I guess that comparison in unfair in this case.

 

[Soniclife]

I agree with whom pointed out the big difference in msrp. KEF doubles Revel, and even if price is not always a solid indicator, I guess that comparison in unfair in this case.

Not in the UK, there are currently deals on some ref 5 finishes currently that make them cheaper.

If you get a dem at a Kef dealer do listen to the R11, it might be more slightly different than better or worse.