[HELP] I can't hear difference between SS and tube amp using HD800

[Willem]

Headphones typically have a much higher impedance than speakers, and therefore should indeed be less susceptible to the high output impedance of tubes and its effect on frequency response.

 

[audiophile]

Can you make some basic measurements using a PC and RMAA ?

Sorry, it's not so quick and easy to do in my case. Maybe I'll do it at some point in the future and share the results.

I've done REW measurements of my main system in the past. I've been using Mullards as the main tubes and the graphs confirmed slow roll-off in HF.

On the other hand, I used some Brimar tubes, and my ears almost started bleeding from the brightness overload. I did not expect such an outcome at all, as everyone on forums described Brimars as warm-sounding. I wish I'd done the measurements, it would be interesting to see what's going on there.

 

[SIY]

On the other hand, I used some Brimar tubes, and my ears almost started bleeding from the brightness overload. I did not expect such an outcome at all, as everyone on forums described Brimars as warm-sounding. I wish I'd done the measurements, it would be interesting to see what's going on there.

First, discount ANYTHING where someone is calling a tube (or other component) "bright" or "dull" or whatever; there's an amazing amout of ignorance in audio forums. Reality: components have no sound. Only circuits do. And the idea that a brand of part will have a distinctive "sound" irrespective of the circuit it's used in is beyond ignorant.

Second, use level-matched double blind listening to validate any impressions of the sound that you think you have. You may be surprised.

 

[audiophile]

First, discount ANYTHING where someone is calling a tube (or other component) "bright" or "dull" or whatever. Reality: components have no sound. Only circuits do.

Sorry, I never blindly trust anything said on the internet, no matter which camp they belong to.

Second, use level-matched double blind listening to validate any impressions of the sound that you think you have. You may be surprised.

I can't subject myself to that torture by Brimars again, at any volume. I physically can't stand what they did to the brass instruments and the voice in Linda Rondstadt's "What's New" (which is a great test track btw). 100% sure that what I heard can be confirmed by simple measurements of frequency response.

 

[BDWoody]

Sorry, I never blindly trust anything said on the internet, no matter which camp they belong to.


I can't subject myself to that torture by Brimars again, at any volume. I physically can't stand what they did to the brass instruments and the voice in Linda Rondstadt's "What's New" (which is a great test track btw). 100% sure that what I heard can be confirmed by simple measurements of frequency response.

Uh huh.

 

[SIY]

It’s possible that the circuit is unstable. You’ll need a scope to verify that. But you still should check your perceptions- we are great at finding patterns that aren’t there. I’m saying that because it’s not clear how frequency response in the audible band can be affected by tube brand.

 

[Willem]

The measurements show it all. Hence my preference for high quality solid state gear.

 

[Wombat]

Sorry, it's not so quick and easy to do in my case. Maybe I'll do it at some point in the future and share the results.

I've done REW measurements of my main system in the past. I've been using Mullards as the main tubes and the graphs confirmed slow roll-off in HF.

On the other hand, I used some Brimar tubes, and my ears almost started bleeding from the brightness overload. I did not expect such an outcome at all, as everyone on forums described Brimars as warm-sounding. I wish I'd done the measurements, it would be interesting to see what's going on there.

The tube, the circuit, or your subjectivity? The rest of us will never know.

 

[audiophile]

It’s possible that the circuit is unstable. You’ll need a scope to verify that. But you still should check your perceptions- we are great at finding patterns that aren’t there. I’m saying that because it’s not clear how frequency response in the audible band can be affected by tube brand.

I will do some measurements soon, using different tubes (I have an UMIK mike and REW) and see what's happening.

The rest of us will never know.

You will

 

[BDWoody]

I will do some measurements soon, using different tubes (I have an UMIK mike and REW) and see what's happening.


You will

Looking forward to seeing your results.

 

[canthearathing]

Now you know you can get on with your life.
Don't need to upgrade any more unless you need other functionality or looks or want to free cash.
You can season your headphone with EQ if desired and can spend funds on other things in life that may be more important.
...
How did the friend fare ?

Yes absolutely. In a weird way, I feel relieved to know that there weren't any audible difference to my ears. I can now sell my tube amp and not have to worry about wireless signal interference or replacing the tube. My friend didn't fare much better either, but he already didn't think there were any differences even before the blind test.

Welcome to the forum! No need to doubt your ears...now you can properly categorize uncontrolled subjective listening reviews.

Thank you! I feel silly having spent money tube rolling and buying/selling different amps/DACs in the past, but I can safely say that I'm past that now.

From now on every time you feel like you hear some huge difference between gear, you can recall that experiment and ask yourself "would I be able to detect this difference in a blind test?". If not, than there is no need to worry about it.

I know!! I can't believe it took me this long to conduct a blind test. I wish I had done this sooner, but what do you know--live and learn I guess.

Instead of listening for meaningless audiophool terms, try listening for an increase in bass response. Use tracks with kick drums.

Thanks for the suggestion. It seems like based on the responses, there might be a small increase in bass response around 100hz region. I think I'll just bump it up slightly using Equalizer APO.

I'd say the better question is: "Do you not like how they both sound for some reason?" - seeing that you now know any differences are negligible at best. If you do, then bonus... extra amp! If not then read some reviews and (as a shortcut) give one of the THX amps, or a DX3 Pro a go.

Thanks for the recommendations. I actually was very happy with the way my tube amp sounded. Knowing now that my solid state performs just as well, all there is left for me to do is enjoy music and be free from buying any more gears.

The concept of "tube sound" is 100% bullshit.

I wish I had known this earlier. It's crazy how much visual placebo adds to the overall auditory experience. Before the blind test, I was 99% convinced that my tube amp sounded warmer, more lush, and airy. I even felt like the frequencies it produced resonated with my heart more than a solid state amp. Oh how silly that was of me.

 

[digicidal]

I wish I had known this earlier. It's crazy how much visual placebo adds to the overall auditory experience. Before the blind test, I was 99% convinced that my tube amp sounded warmer, more lush, and airy. I even felt like the frequencies it produced resonated with my heart more than a solid state amp. Oh how silly that was of me.

All of us are afflicted to one extent or another with the same issues. I applaud the self-awareness and honesty with which you approached the dilemma - I just wish I had been half as efficient as you in my own experience.

When I finally started making decent money, I decided to make a "killer mini system" with a well-reviewed SE pentode tube amp and some custom fullrange reflex speakers. I told myself the fact that the DAC was absolute crap wasn't an issue. I told myself the sound I was missing had been replaced with much better midrange. I told myself all kinds of different lies - all based on the idea that reviewers couldn't be lying and audiophiles knew what they were talking about. What I didn't tell myself was: "you just wasted $1K on gear that doesn't sound half as good as a HTIB setup on anything other than 60's folk singers... which you hate!"

Luckily, I eventually found my way out of that maze, but many more thousands were wasted in the process. You're so far ahead of the game - congratulations! Now you can waste all of your time and money trying out different speakers and headphones which really do sound different.

 

[SIY]

Thank you! I feel silly having spent money tube rolling and buying/selling different amps/DACs in the past, but I can safely say that I'm past that now.

Don't feel silly for being a human with human perceptions! As @digicidal says, you deserve a lot of kudos for being willing to test your perceptions and immediately understanding what your test showed you.

 

[Enkay25]

I love this honesty.......here we, the consumers, are becoming more honest.

Now, I hope the manufacturers also starts getting honest...


....so that the whole industry become more honest than the audiofoolery going around.

....so that we all can enjoy an honest hobby of music.

Heck I consider this sort of enlightenment - the audio 'nirvana'.

 

[digicidal]

Now, I hope the manufacturers also starts getting honest...

Just please don't hold your breath waiting for that one. In the information age, where everyone has access to almost every recorded statement ever made by politicians... most people have realized they're all lying all the time... but I don't see a revolution in honesty and transparency happening - if anything, it's getting worse!

 

[audiophile]

Looking forward to seeing your results.

Here you go

 

[Starnerd67]

I just finished building the Bottlehead Crack last night and immediately put it in a similar A/B test setup like @canthearathing had.
HD600 hooked up to the a sescom A/B switch between the THX AAA 888 and the Bottlehead Crack (no speedball).

The difference seems pretty small, and possibly only because i'm not blind testing it. Did a search online to see if I wasn't hearing something i should. Then i found this forum thread...

 

[Pugsly]

What would be the easiest way to level-match and ab switch? I have the bottlehead on hand, a jds element 2, and HD 6xx. Also have a volt/ohm meter and a mini dsp umik1 if that matters... So, what additional equipment would I need running from a laptop? Recommendations?

 

[hutt132]

Both my friend and I age 24 could not tell the difference between 5 amps in a blind test, including a tube amp.
You can see my results here:

How Should I A/B Test Headphone Amps?

Update: Test results in this post https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-should-i-a-b-test-headphone-amps.8186/#post-203680 Update 2: Some more setup comparisons...

www.audiosciencereview.com

How Should I A/B Test Headphone Amps?

Congratulations! When ab-testing devices I also found no differences or, at best, very minor ones where I thought there were big ones... Sometimes it's not that easy dealing with results like these, though. For some years I've been introducing a friend's son (aged 13 now) into the basics of...

www.audiosciencereview.com