help for choice dac or headphone

[fabtou14]

Hello,
I am new to the forum and recently interested in the world of hifi and get lost in all the opinions and other technical tests. I would like to improve (a little) my listening by headphones via my computer or my iphone. I just ordered the Hidizs S8, but quite frankly I see very little difference with dac or without dac. I use headphone Bose AE2 and listen to music on Qobuz.
Two little questions? The contribution of a dac must it be meaningful listening? Can I invest in a better headphone and not use a dac? Basically dac + medium headphone = good headphone. My budget for headphones or headphones / dac is 300 €.
I'm interested by :
Hifiman sundara
Hifiman HE 400i
Audio Technica ATH - MSR7b

I'would like light and confortable headphone


Thank you for your insight and have a good day.
Fabrice (sorry for my English )

 

[Firefly00]

If you’re using Apple hardware, the DACs and amps are generally quite good. With more demanding headphones such as the Sundara and He400i you’ll be thankful to have that S8 for the extra power

 

[fabtou14]

Thank you for this quick response.
What good headphones can work without a dac?
And do not demand too much power

 

[ZolaIII]

Thank you for this quick response.
What good headphones can work without a dac?
And do not demand too much power

Those that are 16~32 Ohm's rated will work with phone analog out, with S8 you can drive 56~64 Ohm's one's. S8 is a TempoTec Sonata HD Pro which cost's less (depending on additional cable's). You need a third part player with it's own driver infrastructure to ensure bit perfect or as you like reproduction with USB DAC on both Android and iOS. For starters try the HiBy Music.
Try to find hedaphones that you really want and afterwards think about DAC/AMP.

 

[fabtou14]

Those that are 16~32 Ohm's rated will work with phone analog out, with S8 you can drive 56~64 Ohm's one's. S8 is a TempoTec Sonata HD Pro which cost's less (depending on additional cable's). You need a third part player with it's own driver infrastructure to ensure bit perfect or as you like reproduction with USB DAC on both Android and iOS. For starters try the HiBy Music.
Try to find hedaphones that you really want and afterwards think about DAC/AMP.

What will be the benefits of "increasing" the impedance?

 

[ZolaIII]

What will be the benefits of "increasing" the impedance?

Better crosstalk (separation) but that goes for over 100 Ohm's for hedaphones with traditional dynamic driver's (for a sizable increase).

 

[tvrgeek]

What will be the benefits of "increasing" the impedance?

It means the amplifier does not need to provide as much current. The little Op-Amp in a laptop is limited.
The reason for external headphone amplifiers is to get higher current for low impedance, higher voltage for higher impedance, and a quality amplifier is a bit larger than what fits in a square inch on you laptop. A good DAC takes up a lot more space too.
Where an Atom DAC and AMP, or numerous all-in one's reviewed herein make a great basis, the headphones will always be the weak link.

Really good sound is not cheap. ( and also full of useless gimmicks that do nothing) You have to decide what you can hear and what tiny differences are worth to you.

 

[tvrgeek]

Better crosstalk (separation) but that goes for over 100 Ohm's for hedaphones with traditional dynamic driver's (for a sizable increase).

Please explain any physics that this is based on. Cable crosstalk? Heck in headphones, the last thing we want is super separation. HF blend is quite a bit more natural sounding.

 

[ZolaIII]

Please explain any physics that this is based on. Cable crosstalk? Heck in headphones, the last thing we want is super separation. HF blend is quite a bit more natural sounding.

You dig the grounding deeper to separate it more. It's not about cable but driver's impedance. It influences spartal quality (sounding wider). I don't know why you wouldn't like over 100 dB separation on can's that can go equally loud with little distortion. Somehow I like it (almost) square. You will naturally perceive it more with materials that are mixed that way (Dolby downmixes and virtualizations of all kinds).

 

[tvrgeek]

"Dig the grounding deeper." The only ground I dug was the two new rods when I built my shop as per the building code.
Balanced or not has nothing to do with the drivers impedance. Sorry, but that is the transducers.

I know why I don't want 100 dB separation. It sounds terrible and that level is below anything I would ever play in my headphones, which is maybe I still have my hearing. 40 to 50 dB is more where we want headphones separation. But I listen to music, not some contrived made for headphones virtualization. Gamer maybe? Sorry.

 

[Noodles]

You can have both - a good dac/amp + a headphone for around ~300
Dac+Amp: Topping DX3 Pro // Schiit Magni-Modi/Fulla 3/Hel
Headphone: AKG K371/K361/K612 Pro // Sennheiser HD560S/HD599 // Hifiman HE400se

All the above headphones are fairly neutral so they can go with any music... except maybe EDM - you will need to EQ more bass on the Sennys and the K612 pro there.

PS: a DAC alone is not going to get you anywhere if you don't have an amp to go with it... sooo yeah.

 

[tvrgeek]

Don't forget the Atom/Atom stack. I am really impressed with Atom Dac.

Are the 560s similar to the 650's? I too am shopping. My Yamahammers are 40 years old. I hope SOA has improved, but they are quite easy to listen to. Unlike the Grado's I "upgraded" to 15 years ago.

 

[Noodles]

560S is quite a bit more bright than the 650, but not piercing. I'd say they are slightly above 600 brightness (there's probably measurements here for them).
And 560 also have better stereo field .... 600/650 are just terrible in that regard.

 

[tvrgeek]

Hmm. Not encouraging. Thanks.

 

[fabtou14]

You can have both - a good dac/amp + a headphone for around ~300
Dac+Amp: Topping DX3 Pro // Schiit Magni-Modi/Fulla 3/Hel
Headphone: AKG K371/K361/K612 Pro // Sennheiser HD560S/HD599 // Hifiman HE400se

All the above headphones are fairly neutral so they can go with any music... except maybe EDM - you will need to EQ more bass on the Sennys and the K612 pro there.

PS: a DAC alone is not going to get you anywhere if you don't have an amp to go with it... sooo yeah.

Hello,
thank you for your response. But like I said at the beginning, with the S8 dac, I didn't hear a real difference in sound. After reading various messages on this forum, I will first invest in a better headset (meze 99 neo or classic?). I will take a dac later. And I would prefer him to be portable.
For sedentary use, could I use the amp / dac topping to connect, for example, a basic network player for better sound quality. So pair and Hifi dac and dac / headphone amplifier. Have a good day

 

[Noodles]

Hello,
thank you for your response. But like I said at the beginning, with the S8 dac, I didn't hear a real difference in sound. After reading various messages on this forum, I will first invest in a better headset (meze 99 neo or classic?). I will take a dac later. And I would prefer him to be portable.
For sedentary use, could I use the amp / dac topping to connect, for example, a basic network player for better sound quality. So pair and Hifi dac and dac / headphone amplifier. Have a good day

Looks like Bass is all you care about, which is fine, but you don't need to spend Meze money for that sound. You can get that sound out of a gas station headphone.
Enjoy

 

[fabtou14]

I do not understand. When I mention bass and am only interested in that? I tested a dac and i'm not convinced by the sound improvement. So I'm looking for new headphones with a homogeneous sound and above all a comfort of use. And I would like see a gas station headphone

 

[Noodles]

The headphones you mentioned are ALL ABOUT BASS, its not even funny:

 

[fabtou14]

The headphones you mentioned are ALL ABOUT BASS, its not even funny:

I understand. Thanks.
I'm watching yours propositions. Do you know a good close headphone? I don't always listen to music in a quiet place, closed headphones is interesting. Otherwise I will follow your advice and direct me to the Sennheiser HD560S/HD599 or Hifiman HE400se.

 

[Noodles]

Closed headphones are not as good as open ones just because of the challenges of making them closed - reverberance, standing waves en so on.
A decent pick, especially if you are on a budget are the AKG K371/361