Help for a Noob

[tobiasash]

Just some background: I have an old setup with some B+W 603s I got after finishing university, which are at least 25 years old. I also have a Denon AVR and an Apple TV. Currently, I stream all my music from Apple Music, which is routed to my TV via HDMI and then delivered to the amp via Toslink. It’s a bit of a Frankenstein setup, but it works and I listen to it a lot.

Sometime ago, I was gifted a Tom Evans Linear A amplifier, which has been collecting dust for a while. Yesterday, a friend came over with a Sonos Port that we connected via RCA and used as a streamer/preamp.

Subjectively, I thought the amp was really nice. The bass was punchier, and my speakers sounded better than they normally do. I was going to sell the amp but now I have decided to try and build a system around it.

Now, I want to find an all-in-one streamer/DAC that can also be used as a preamp. My budget is around the $1500 CAD mark. There seem like a million options out there. If you were in my situation, what would you recommend?

I’m too tied in to the Apple Music universe to consider something like the Wiim Ultra. I don’t have the ears to appreciate MQA/super high-resolution audio, etc. I do like the idea of a physical volume dial, but it’s not a dealbreaker. The amp only has RCA inputs so not too sure if I need something with balanced outputs.

Another angle I’ve thought about is doing it as separates, but where do I start with that? I see this as potentially helping me build a better system in the long run, as I do want to upgrade my speakers soon.

Also if you think I should tank the amp and go in another direction then I am all ears!

I really appreciate any tips or suggestions. A car accident left me with a significant brain injury and I get really lost in the details hence my post for some help. I’ve always enjoyed the objectivity of this forum, so please be as objective as possible.



Thanks!

 

[staticV3]

Now, I want to find an all-in-one streamer/DAC that can also be used as a preamp. My budget is around the $1500 CAD mark. There seem like a million options out there. If you were in my situation, what would you recommend?

[https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wiim-pro-plus-streamer-review.50254/

Sound quality doesn't get any better regardless of price, and it supports AirPlay.

Compared to the Ultra, you sacrifice digital Subwoofer integration so should you add one in the future, you'd have to rely on the DSP built into the sub for integration.

 

[kyuu]

You can also go with the original Wiim Amp, which supports Airplay (and bass management) if that is a deal breaker for you.

Alternatively, you could look at the Eversolo Play if the Wiims are just too pedestrian for you.

 

[Doublej]

What's the model number on your Denon AVR? You might be able to stream directly from it without adding another box though the WiiM Pro Plus is a great choice for a preamp/streamer/dac.

One of the many great features of the WiiM is that you can preset 8 favorites and access them with a single or double push of a button on the remote.

 

[Power Pop 23]

I believe there exists a 'workaround' for using AirPlay with a WiiM Ultra preamp. Physically connect the output of a WiiM streamer that supports AirPlay to an input on an Ultra or use the WiiM Home app to 'group' the 'Airplay-compatible' WiiM streamer with an Ultra. The latter option may be the more convenient to use. A WiiM mini supports AirPlay 2.

Admittedly, NOT an all-in-one solution. I am not certain but I believe the USB-A jack on the back panel of an Ultra could power a WiiM Mini.

 

[DVDdoug]

I thought the amp was really nice. The bass was punchier,

You'll probably get more bass from the Denon if you turn up the bass. Otherwise most modern amps have flat frequency response over the audio range.

There are lots of potential advantages to using an AVR and it's often the most economical solution because they are mass-produced, mass-marketed and sold into a competitive market.

Class-A and tubes make the amp more expensive per-Watt. That amp is pretty low power but if it goes loud enough for you with your speakers and without distortion you don't need more power.

Class-A isn't the "best"... It was just the first. Back in the 1950's and 60's radios & TVs were class A because they could be built with one less tube or transistor. Now that electronics are cheap, the additional part for class A/B gives you more for the money and it's more energy efficient.

Class-D is even more energy efficient at high power output, and it's electronically a lot more complicated but most of the complicated electronics are in a chip, so it's not overly expensive and the trade-off is even more Watts-per-dollar.

The amp only has RCA inputs so not too sure if I need something with balanced outputs.

Balanced connections are more immune to noise pick-up. If you've got ground loop hum or something, balanced connections will usually cure it. If you don't have a noise problem (and most people don't) there's no "audio advantage". Unbalanced RCA connections are standard for home equipment. Balanced XLR connections are standard in the pro world.

 

[tobiasash]

[https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wiim-pro-plus-streamer-review.50254/

Sound quality doesn't get any better regardless of price, and it supports AirPlay.

Compared to the Ultra, you sacrifice digital Subwoofer integration so should you add one in the future, you'd have to rely on the DSP built into the sub for integration.

Thanks for the reccomendation. I am not sure how I missed this model. The review of it looks great as well with a really good price point. Thank you!
Edit: I noticed on Amirs review that the VRMS is just under 2 and in trying to school myself on this one of his videos mentions that around 4 VRMS is ideal. Does that make as difference or am I over thinking it?

 

[tobiasash]

What's the model number on your Denon AVR? You might be able to stream directly from it without adding another box though the WiiM Pro Plus is a great choice for a preamp/streamer/dac.

One of the many great features of the WiiM is that you can preset 8 favorites and access them with a single or double push of a button on the remote.

It’s the AVR-2311CI.
I looked to see if there was an option for it function as a pre amp only but I couldn’t figure that out

 

[tobiasash]

I believe there exists a 'workaround' for using AirPlay with a WiiM Ultra preamp. Physically connect the output of a WiiM streamer that supports AirPlay to an input on an Ultra or use the WiiM Home app to 'group' the 'Airplay-compatible' WiiM streamer with an Ultra. The latter option may be the more convenient to use. A WiiM mini supports AirPlay 2.

Admittedly, NOT an all-in-one solution. I am not certain but I believe the USB-A jack on the back panel of an Ultra could power a WiiM Mini.

Interesting! I did like that the Ultra has a built in phono input. In terms of cost of the the ultra and the mini dot you think its a better investment?

 

[tobiasash]

You'll probably get more bass from the Denon if you turn up the bass. Otherwise most modern amps have flat frequency response over the audio range.

There are lots of potential advantages to using an AVR and it's often the most economical solution because they are mass-produced, mass-marketed and sold into a competitive market.

Class-A and tubes make the amp more expensive per-Watt. That amp is pretty low power but if it goes loud enough for you with your speakers and without distortion you don't need more power.

Class-A isn't the "best"... It was just the first. Back in the 1950's and 60's radios & TVs were class A because they could be built with one less tube or transistor. Now that electronics are cheap, the additional part for class A/B gives you more for the money and it's more energy efficient.

Class-D is even more energy efficient at high power output, and it's electronically a lot more complicated but most of the complicated electronics are in a chip, so it's not overly expensive and the trade-off is even more Watts-per-dollar.


Balanced connections are more immune to noise pick-up. If you've got ground loop hum or something, balanced connections will usually cure it. If you don't have a noise problem (and most people don't) there's no "audio advantage". Unbalanced RCA connections are standard for home equipment. Balanced XLR connections are standard in the pro world.

I did look at that.
I appreciate your feedback about the Class A vs A/B/D. Admittedly I have been swayed in my decision to keep this amp because of its retail price. There is a lot of energy being converted to heat with this amp. I got out my IR temp gun and was surprised at some of the temp readings I was getting.

 

[JeremyFife]

Thanks for the reccomendation. I am not sure how I missed this model. The review of it looks great as well with a really good price point. Thank you!
Edit: I noticed on Amirs review that the VRMS is just under 2 and in trying to school myself on this one of his videos mentions that around 4 VRMS is ideal. Does that make as difference or am I over thinking it?

Generalising: RCA output standard is 2v whereas balanced output is 4v. There are exceptions. 2v is fine, no worries.

 

[tobiasash]

Generalising: RCA output standard is 2v whereas balanced output is 4v. There are exceptions. 2v is fine, no worries.

Gold. Thank you

 

[Petrushka]

A Port gives you nearly every available streaming service, plus Airplay, and adding a Wiim Ultra gives you a preamp for half your budget. I have a Port feeding a Wiim Amp and am happy with it.

There’s some redundancy, but it’s not a financial burden. The Port has coax out, and I believe the Ultra has coax in.

 

[tobiasash]

A Port gives you nearly every available streaming service, plus Airplay, and adding a Wiim Ultra gives you a preamp for half your budget. I have a Port feeding a Wiim Amp and am happy with it.

There’s some redundancy, but it’s not a financial burden. The Port has coax out, and I believe the Ultra has coax in.

What are the downsides of just using the port as the source/preamp? What made you go with your configuration at the moment if you doing mind me asking?

 

[Doublej]

It’s the AVR-2311CI.
I looked to see if there was an option for it function as a pre amp only but I couldn’t figure that out

It appears that the AVR-2311CI can function as a preamp but only for analog sources connected to the the unit. Because of copy protection, it appears that the audio from the HDMI inputs on the AVR-2311CI will not be passed to the preamp outputs. The preamp outputs on the AVR-2311CI are the Zone 2 and DVR Out RCA connections on the back of the unit. What is not obvious to me is are these AVR-2311CI outputs fixed level or variable level. You want variable level so you can control the volume.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Interesting! I did like that the Ultra has a built in phono input. In terms of cost of the the ultra and the mini dot you think its a better investment?

Yes, I think the convenience for AirPlay users is worth the cost.

 

[lordhumungous]

Interesting! I did like that the Ultra has a built in phono input. In terms of cost of the the ultra and the mini dot you think its a better investment?

I have an WiiM Pro in a separate room from the WiiM Ultra I have . If I want to use AirPlay I just link (group ) the two together and connect my iPhone to the WiiM Pro and music plays to my WiiM ultra connected to powered speakers . No need to physically connect a WiiM device to the Ultra. I suspect you could have a WiiM Mini in another room and do the same thing.

 

[tobiasash]

Thanks everyone for the advice.
I have gone for the Wiim Pro Plus so I’m looking forward to seeing how it goes.
FYI Also Amazon has a 10% off coupon today for the Wiim Pro Plus.