Help diagnosing distortion problem in LP playback, please.

[MattHooper]

After reading through this thread it reminded me of a similar problem i had a while back. Had a Benz cart on a Project 6.1 table. Started hearing distortion etc.. drove me nuts trying to chase it down. Ended up being a bad bearing/cup in the tonearm and it was slightly cocking the entire pivot making the azimuth badly misaligned. This ended up causing the suspension in the Benz to fail too.. so a combo.
I scored some new bearings from pro-Ject and recently resurrected the table with a used AirTight PC-1 a friend loaned me. Sounds great.
My opinion and experience: You really REALLY have to get your overhang/zenith, Azimuth & VTA dialed to get a consistently clean wonderful sound. I have used the Mint protractor on a few tables and it is very good.
I’d double check that tonearm and/or it’s bearing since the cleaning lady aced it. I have a hunch it could be related/causing some issue.
Keep us updated!

Thanks for the input!

I think I forgot to get back to this thread to report that once I had the new cartridge the distortion problem was gone.

BUT...it seems to have occasionally reared it's head again over the past several months. It's like the sound on one side will start to distort in to a ripping sound.
Usually just lifting up the needle and placing it down again seems to get rid of it. Mysterious. But thus far it's rare. (I guess I'm about two years in to using this "new" cartridge).

 

[b_a_r]

Thanks for the input!

I think I forgot to get back to this thread to report that once I had the new cartridge the distortion problem was gone.

BUT...it seems to have occasionally reared it's head again over the past several months. It's like the sound on one side will start to distort in to a ripping sound.
Usually just lifting up the needle and placing it down again seems to get rid of it. Mysterious. But thus far it's rare. (I guess I'm about two years in to using this "new" cartridge).

Yup, thats what mine did and it was a bearing in tonearm…

 

[MattHooper]

Yup, thats what mine did and it was a bearing in tonearm…

Very helpful to know!

Though I wouldn't know a bearing from a bear....

Maybe my turntable pal will know what to look for.

 

[b_a_r]

There are bearings in the pivot at the end of the tonearm, you can easily check if there is any play or excessive movement side to side or by lightly trying to twist the the tonearm a little clockwise/counter clockwise. If it is loose or you feel or hear any clicking etc then a closer look is needed..

 

[caught gesture]

Dang, a bit Draconian saying you can't even invite a friend over. OUCH

Awful, isn’t it. Next they’ll be banning books and dictating what can and can’t be taught in schools.

 

[Soniclife]

For the interest of anyone...well...interested:

A few pages back I posted some shots of my stylus which you could see was covered in crap. Still don't know exactly what it was. But for whatever reason my standard gel pad needle cleaner didn't seem to be removing it.

I got hold of one of an ultrasonic needle cleaner:

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/flux-hi-fi-electronic-stylus-cleaner

https://www.amazon.com/FLUX-Stylus-cleaner-SONIC-Japan/dp/B00YPS6TF8

Wowza! This thing really worked! 15 seconds of cleaning on this thing got my needle far cleaner. I didn't know I had an actual needle under that haystack! Sounded better too!

Pictures of my needle before and after cleaning:

Fascinating, great to see that it cleans not only the tip but the whole cantilever.
I've used an audio technica one for years without any issues, first on a selection of MMs and then on 2 Dynavector MC.

 

[Soniclife]

There are bearings in the pivot at the end of the tonearm, you can easily check if there is any play or excessive movement side to side or by lightly trying to twist the the tonearm a little clockwise/counter clockwise. If it is loose or you feel or hear any clicking etc then a closer look is needed..

Reading through this thread for the first time today dodgy arm bearings makes the most sense to the original problem. Taking the cart off and on could have been enough to make it behave for a while, the analogue equivalent of turning a computer off and on again.

 

[Sal1950]

Very helpful to know!

Though I wouldn't know a bearing from a bear....

Maybe my turntable pal will know what to look for.

Buy the CD.

 

[MattHooper]

Buy the CD.

Oh you!!….

 

[egellings]

Folks,

Recently I've had a problem with distortion creeping in to my LP playback system.

Initially when the system is turned on, playing a record (that is in good condition) will sound clean enough, but after a few minutes distortion will start to occur, at first just barely "is it there?" level of grittiness and then it gets worse until the sound is covered in a layer of haze/fuzz, with transients distorting very obviously, like an over-driven amp. Or the type of fuzzy playback you get when a big hunk of dust got hung up on your needle. (The needle is fine, I keep it very clean).

I turn the system off, and the same thing happens the next time I use it.

Any ideas for trouble-shooting this?

My turntable and Benz Micro Ebony L cartridge and phono stage are 3 years old. Well cared for.

I don't know how it could be the stylus, which as I say is kept very clean and not sure distortion would have this type of "starts clean, becomes really distorted" character ever time.

And my tube amp/tube pre-amp seem fine: my digital source displays no distortion.

Which makes my hunch go towards my phono stage. It's a JE Audio phono stage that uses 2 small 6H30 tubes as buffer stages. I'm wondering if this might be a sign of a tube or both going south? Any other ideas?

Thanks for any input!

Have you tried the T.T. in a different system to find out of the T.T. is doing it or else the electronics? I had a cartridge that did a similar thing, and the reason that happened is that the suspension sagged after the cart's 1/5 grams' worth of pressure were on it during play. It took a few seconds for the cart to sag and cause the bad sound. It looks like a process of elimination would have to take place after that was done and the T.T. was found not to be the cause. First the phono pre, then the line stage if separate, and then the power amps. Of course, if say, a CD or other line level source sounds good through your system, then that leaves only the cart, arm, and phono stage to investigate.

 

[EJ3]

Oh you!!….

I almost always both learn something and end my ASR reading session with a smile when you and Sal1950 (& occasionally myself) are interacting.

 

[MattHooper]

Have you tried the T.T. in a different system to find out of the T.T. is doing it or else the electronics? I had a cartridge that did a similar thing, and the reason that happened is that the suspension sagged after the cart's 1/5 grams' worth of pressure were on it during play. It took a few seconds for the cart to sag and cause the bad sound. It looks like a process of elimination would have to take place after that was done and the T.T. was found not to be the cause. First the phono pre, then the line stage if separate, and then the power amps. Of course, if say, a CD or other line level source sounds good through your system, then that leaves only the cart, arm, and phono stage to investigate.

No way I could easily try this wretched TT beast in another system, so I had to change things methodically in my own.

 

[egellings]

Did your turntable hear you say that? Poor thing!

 

[mash]

Late to the party, so you might have figured this part out......but, was wondering if you are still using a "gel pad" to clean your stylus or if you've completely switched over to the ultra sonic cleaner. A while back, Analog Planet (Fremer) and WAM (Wally Tools) did a piece that looked at the Onzow Zerodust gel pad and found that it left left a nasty residue on the stylus and cantilever that looks a lot like your original pictures. Here's a link to that piece:

Time to Put Away The Onzow ZeroDust?

These latest microscope photos from WAM Engineering LLC (WallyTools) offer dramatic evidence that the Onzow Zerodust leaves a stubborn, difficult to remove residue on "clean" styli as well as on cantilevers. It's a troubling discovery. This first photo shows an Onzow Zerodust "clean" stylus with...

www.analogplanet.com

Not sure this has anything to do with your distortion problem seeing that you've seemed to switched stylus cleaning technique but thought it worth mentioning.

 

[morillon]

even if can surprise because more inexpensive ...
for a strong cleaning, "magic eraser"
you probably won't do better...
(to read you, you have exceeded 1000-1200 hours.. that's already a lot...(bought new?)
your cartdrige is probably at the end of its life anyway)

 

[MattHooper]

Late to the party, so you might have figured this part out......but, was wondering if you are still using a "gel pad" to clean your stylus or if you've completely switched over to the ultra sonic cleaner. A while back, Analog Planet (Fremer) and WAM (Wally Tools) did a piece that looked at the Onzow Zerodust gel pad and found that it left left a nasty residue on the stylus and cantilever that looks a lot like your original pictures. Here's a link to that piece:

Time to Put Away The Onzow ZeroDust?

These latest microscope photos from WAM Engineering LLC (WallyTools) offer dramatic evidence that the Onzow Zerodust leaves a stubborn, difficult to remove residue on "clean" styli as well as on cantilevers. It's a troubling discovery. This first photo shows an Onzow Zerodust "clean" stylus with...

www.analogplanet.com

Not sure this has anything to do with your distortion problem seeing that you've seemed to switched stylus cleaning technique but thought it worth mentioning.

Thanks.

Yes I was aware of the issue and people worried that the DS Audio ST-50 stylus cleaner that uses the same principle would cause the same problem. It spooked me so I essentially stopped using it and have moved to a brush, occasionally using some cleaning fluid. I should get around to checking my current stylus with my USB microscope to check it's condition.

 

[mike70]

Magic Eraser worked without any problem for decades for me.

 

[morillon]

Magic Eraser worked without any problem for decades for me.

yes.. for a deep cleaning of the diamond it is even probably the best solution available...
but, because I imagine that here the unspoken, used by a good number of enthusiasts around me on cartriges much more expensive than this ebony Benz..
but yes.. it costs almost nothing and it's a bit surprising
;-)

 

[Bob from Florida]

Matt - what kind of tonearm is on your table? Uni pivot or normal rotate / up-down bearings. Did you verify azimuth and how? Are you confident in your overhang and zenith alignment? How about anti-skate - how was that adjusted? Finally, VTF and VTA - how was that set? Micro-line styli are rather sensitive to setup and if you are off enough could be contributing to your continuing intermittent issues.

 

[MattHooper]

Matt - what kind of tonearm is on your table?

It's an Acoustic Solid WTB 313 tonearm. It came, along with the Benz Micro Ebony cartridge, as a package with my Transrotor turntable when I bought it second hand:

ACOUSTIC SOLID - WTB 313 12" METAL ARM TUBE TONEARM

Length: 302.9mmOverhang: 15.9mmOffset Angle: 17.3 degreePickup Weight: 8–25 gramMounting Distance: 287mmWeight: 442 gram

vinylsound.ca

Uni pivot or normal rotate / up-down bearings.

I'm clueless about such things. Sorry. (I didn't have to do much investigating in to tone arms, since this came with my turntable).

Did you verify azimuth and how? Are you confident in your overhang and zenith alignment? How about anti-skate - how was that adjusted? Finally, VTF and VTA - how was that set? Micro-line styli are rather sensitive to setup and if you are off enough could be contributing to your continuing intermittent issues.

I don't think I can turn the arm in terms of directly altering azimuth. But I believe that since I use the Mint Tractor set up (custom made for that arm) it suggests everything is dialed in very well. I don't believe the arm has an anti-skate adjustment (I think they reject that for some reason). I don't adjust VTA (don't think I can) but VTF is using a standard cartridge scale, adjusted by ear, within the range recommended by Benz Micro.

This reminds me: I've had this new cartridge for a couple years now and I should check with my USB microscope how the needle is looking.