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Help diagnosing distortion problem in LP playback, please.

BDWoody

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FWIW...I bought one of those cheap USB microscopes and took a look at the stylus. Here are some photos.
Covered with crap! (Even though I use one of those gel stylus cleaners). And looks worn?

I might as well be reading tea leaves.

My recent foray into usb microscopes and stylus shots taught me I have no business trying to interpret anything to do with them.
 
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MattHooper

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watchnerd

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Robin L

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I have to admit, if I was in your shoes, I would have just bought a new cart by now.

Going deeper into the rat hole of why a used Benz that came with the TT isn't working right could turn into a giant never ending time suck....
Hell, I'd get a Audio Technica VM95SH, use that for awhile, see if I can live with it. Much easier to maintain. While the cartridge that came with the turntable is undoubtedly a classic, it also appears to be high cost/high maintenance. If I needed to replace a stylus, I'd want to replace the suspension at the same time. Easy with the AT, don't think it's possible with the Micro Benz. If it's re-tipped, you're still stuck with the same old suspension. Of course, there's higher-end possibilities, but this would be a relatively cheap way to see if a moving magnet/replaceable stylus cartridge of relatively high quality could work for you.
 
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watchnerd

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Hell, I'd get a Audio Technica VM95SH, use that for awhile, see if I can live with it. Much easier to maintain. While the cartridge that came with the turntable is undoubtedly a classic, it also appears to be high cost/high maintenance. If I needed to replace a stylus, I'd want to replace the suspension at the same time. Easy with the AT, don't think it's possible with the Micro Benz. If it's re-tipped, your still stuck with the same old suspension. Of course, there's higher-end possibilities, but this would be a relatively cheap way to see if a moving magnet/replaceable stylus cartridge of relatively high quality could work for you.

Or go super lazy MC and get a Denon DL-103.

If that lazy man's cart doesn't work right, just light it all on fire.
 

Sal1950

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If it's re-tipped, you're still stuck with the same old suspension.
How serious to you guys take suspension deterioration today?
Do you use any type of product to help the issue?
I do remember back in the day there were a couple products, liquids, you could put a drop or two on the cantilever that was supposed to help any issues?
A nice advantage of the MM types that when you bought a replacement it came with it's suspension too. Personally I never felt comfortable with stylus replacements.
 

watchnerd

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How serious to you guys take suspension deterioration today?
Do you use any type of product to help the issue?
I do remember back in the day there were a couple products, liquids, you could put a drop or two on the cantilever that was supposed to help any issues?
A nice advantage of the MM types that when you bought a replacement it came with it's suspension too. Personally I never felt comfortable with stylus replacements.

I don't use any products to help, but I also don't re-tip, either.

All the MCs I own are from manufacturers that have exchange programs that let me trade in an old one for a totally new one at a discounted price.

There is enough voodoo already in vinyl.

I don't need to add to the neurosis by worrying about suspensions that might be getting old.

Just ditch the b*tch, get a new one.

And, as you said, it's a non-issue for MM stylus replacements.
 

Robin L

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How serious to you guys take suspension deterioration today?
Do you use any type of product to help the issue?
I do remember back in the day there were a couple products, liquids, you could put a drop or two on the cantilever that was supposed to help any issues?
A nice advantage of the MM types that when you bought a replacement it came with it's suspension too. Personally I never felt comfortable with stylus replacements.
I'm free-range now. No LPs, no turntables, no stylus replacements. I'm free.
 
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MattHooper

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Thanks fellas.

I still intend to send off my Benz cartridge to be diagnosed at SoundSmith (good rep for re-tipping cartridges) and depending on the issue I'd get it re-tipped. Since it's a pricey cartridge and I loved the sound, and I'm unlikely to ever buy such a cartridge new, re-tipping is much cheaper.

I'm also going to probably pick up a cheaper cartridge just to use while the Benz is away.
 

watchnerd

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Thanks fellas.

I still intend to send off my Benz cartridge to be diagnosed at SoundSmith (good rep for re-tipping cartridges) and depending on the issue I'd get it re-tipped. Since it's a pricey cartridge and I loved the sound, and I'm unlikely to ever buy such a cartridge new, re-tipping is much cheaper.

I'm also going to probably pick up a cheaper cartridge just to use while the Benz is away.

I'll be curious to hear the outcome.

From what I've read, cartridges that go to Soundsmith come back different...unsurprisingly....because you're getting a modded version of the cart, not an exact restoration of the original due to differences in cantilever / shape / mounting.

Although if you still have a (unverified) issue with your suspension, I don't think that would be resolved...
 
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MattHooper

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I'll be curious to hear the outcome.

From what I've read, cartridges that go to Soundsmith come back different...unsurprisingly....because you're getting a modded version of the cart, not an exact restoration of the original due to differences in cantilever / shape / mounting.

Yes I've heard that too. Though from what I've gathered often enough it's either because:

1. They didn't have the same, or close enough, cantilever/tip to the original.
2. They did have the right cantilever, but some people choose a different one just to try out, and report differences in sound, for better or worse.

In this case they do have a boron cantilever just like the one used for the Benz, so fingers crossed.
 

watchnerd

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Yes I've heard that too. Though from what I've gathered often enough it's either because:

1. They didn't have the same, or close enough, cantilever/tip to the original.
2. They did have the right cantilever, but some people choose a different one just to try out, and report differences in sound, for better or worse.

In this case they do have a boron cantilever just like the one used for the Benz, so fingers crossed.


Yeah, some things, like Denon DL-103 conicals, are just not something you can get from them.

Or #3:

The mounting was different compared to the original, (e.g. nude vs bonded), although that's probably a minor thing compared to the other two.
 
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MattHooper

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For the interest of anyone...well...interested:

A few pages back I posted some shots of my stylus which you could see was covered in crap. Still don't know exactly what it was. But for whatever reason my standard gel pad needle cleaner didn't seem to be removing it.

I got hold of one of an ultrasonic needle cleaner:

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/flux-hi-fi-electronic-stylus-cleaner

https://www.amazon.com/FLUX-Stylus-cleaner-SONIC-Japan/dp/B00YPS6TF8

Wowza! This thing really worked! 15 seconds of cleaning on this thing got my needle far cleaner. I didn't know I had an actual needle under that haystack! Sounded better too!

Pictures of my needle before and after cleaning:
 

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watchnerd

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For the interest of anyone...well...interested:

A few pages back I posted some shots of my stylus which you could see was covered in crap. Still don't know exactly what it was. But for whatever reason my standard gel pad needle cleaner didn't seem to be removing it.

I got hold of one of an ultrasonic needle cleaner:

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/flux-hi-fi-electronic-stylus-cleaner

https://www.amazon.com/FLUX-Stylus-cleaner-SONIC-Japan/dp/B00YPS6TF8

Wowza! This thing really worked! 15 seconds of cleaning on this thing got my needle far cleaner. I didn't know I had an actual needle under that haystack! Sounded better too!

Pictures of my needle before and after cleaning:

If I was brave enough, I think I could just drop mine in my ultrasonic jewelry cleaner I use for watches.
 

Robin L

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If I was brave enough, I think I could just drop mine in my ultrasonic jewelry cleaner I use for watches.
I'd be careful, I've read of some cartridges losing their styli that way.
 

Robin L

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Oh, people have actually done it?

I would think the heat might be an issue, too.
I think I read something in Analog Planet a few years back. Ultrasonic cleaning's great for LPs, might be too intense for certain styli.
 
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MattHooper

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Dang.

What the heck have you been playing that it got so dirty....?

Dunno. Just records. Maybe something came off some old LPs.

It was shocking actually getting a first close look at the needle.
 
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MattHooper

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I think I read something in Analog Planet a few years back. Ultrasonic cleaning's great for LPs, might be too intense for certain styli.

The quick research I did said that ultrasonic cartridge needle cleaners have been around for many years, but some found the vibration frequency too high (?) which damaged the canteliver over time. So they went out of favor. This newer one is supposed to have addressed that issue, with a lower frequency, safe for the needle.
 
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