Help a newbie to pick the most appropriate amplifier

[valentin-mathieu]

Hello,

First of all: Thank for this forum and its community. I am a brand new Hi-Fi man, a friend of mine throw me inside two month ago ... and since i am just beloved to this!

I recently purchased a DROP AEON Closed X, and i read that this headphone need a bunch of power to express correctly. (Is it right ?)
My stuff are is: Topping E30+L30 at work and E30 II + L30 II at home.

So i plan to buy a more powerful amplifier, and i hesitate between 2, both balanced:
- Topping L70
- Schiit Magnius

And of course, i plan to buy (or make) a balanced headphones connector.

More info, i have a SONY MDR-7506 and a HifiMan Sundara and I listen on my Android phone, or with my computer on Windows.

Thx

 

[valentin-mathieu]

reserved

 

[staticV3]

@valentin-mathieu consider buying a more powerful Amp only if you can max out your current Amp and it's still not loud enough, or you hear distortion from the Amp.

Buying a more powerful Amp just to have more headroom will not improve sound quality.

Edit: taking Amir's measurments of the Aeon RT Closed, the L30 and L30II can drive the headphone to about 113dB SPL Peak. That's very loud.
For reference, my usual listening volume of 80dB Peak is about 10% the volume that the L30/L30II + Aeon Closed X/RT Closed is capable of.

 

[valentin-mathieu]

@staticV3 thx for the quick and detailed response.

From what i understand it is a headphone that combines very low impedance (13 ohm constant over the whole spectrum) with very low efficiency (650 mV required to reach a level of 94 dB). So it really needs power to make all the dynamics of which it is capable.

Buying a more powerful Amp just to have more headroom will not improve sound quality.

That's exactly the point, but IMO it's not only a question of power. My Topping stuff can drive this headphones (like you said), but at low or medium-low level, i feel the sound like flattened, there is clearly a small lake of bass and the treble and highs are too present.

 

[staticV3]

at low or medium-low level, i feel the sound like flattened, there is clearly a small lake of bass and the treble and highs are too present.

A more powerful Amp will not fix that.
What you're experiencing is simply the nonlinear behavior of the human ear as described by the Fletcher–Munson curves.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

@staticV3 thx for the quick and detailed response.

From what i understand it is a headphone that combines very low impedance (13 ohm constant over the whole spectrum) with very low efficiency (650 mV required to reach a level of 94 dB). So it really needs power to make all the dynamics of which it is capable.



That's exactly the point, but IMO it's not only a question of power. My Topping stuff can drive this headphones (like you said), but at low or medium-low level, i feel the sound like flattened, there is clearly a small lake of bass and the treble and highs are too present.

What you describe seems to be more attributed to how we humans hear. At lower volumes we are less sensitive to low and very high frequencies whereas we are sensitive to mid frequencies (speech) (see also Munson-Fletcher). In the 80ies and 90ies they therefore had the Loudness function. Nowadays you can solve it with eg EQ.

Edit. Oops. Parallel post with @staticV3 who was first.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

… maybe on a side note.

This Fletcher-Munson curve is also the reason why tricky Hifi dealers slightly turn up the volume of the most expensive gear they want to sell, as louder simply is perceived “better”.

And secondly when comparing equipment one needs to carefully level match the SPL (loudness) because otherwise one would again pick the louder equipment as being better and this will skew the listening test.

 

[notsodeadlizard]

I looked at the Drop company website several times and could not understand what kind of company it is in general.
What does it have to do with audio?
There are some keyboards, various plastic nonsense, who are they?
What a strange time we live in.

 

[staticV3]

I looked at the Drop company website several times and could not understand what kind of company it is in general.

They're a retailer of electronics and tools who sometimes does special editions of products in collaboration with the original manufacturer.

 

[valentin-mathieu]

I performed some tests with my SONY MDR-7506, and it's sound really more balanced at low power output, so i am doubtful ...
I trust the Munson-Fletcher effect, but i doubt i am in this case.

So the only way to convince myself is to test with a more powerful amp.

---

By the way the "E30 II" sound really better than this little brother the "E30" at low power, i will sell it.

 

[SoNic]

Hello,

First of all: Thank for this forum and its community. I am a brand new Hi-Fi man, a friend of mine throw me inside two month ago ... and since i am just beloved to this!

I recently purchased a DROP AEON Closed X, and i read that this headphone need a bunch of power to express correctly. (Is it right ?)
My stuff are is: Topping E30+L30 at work and E30 II + L30 II at home.

So i plan to buy a more powerful amplifier, and i hesitate between 2, both balanced:
- Topping L70
- Schiit Magnius

And of course, i plan to buy (or make) a balanced headphones connector.

More info, i have a SONY MDR-7506 and a HifiMan Sundara and I listen on my Android phone, or with my computer on Windows.

Thx

The balanced amps will provide slightly lower distortion than single ended counterparts, not just higher power. Less coloring of sound if you want.
The amps in this price range usually deploy the awesome TPA6120A2 circuit. Two of them are needed for stereo balanced, one can do stereo single ended.
I think that any of those two will serve you right.

Disclaimer: Personally, I paid $90 for this version, using the same two TPA6120A2 circuits: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251...2UYfk25&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US
I swapped the OpAmps, did a small mod on grounding... but that's me, I like to tinker.

 

[luft262]

Just get the Wavelet app and download the EQ profile for your headphones then tinker with the EQ to taste. It'll be a lot cheaper than a new amp...I'm in agreement that a more powerful amp won't improve your headphones bass.

 

[valentin-mathieu]

The balanced amps will provide slightly lower distortion than single ended counterparts, not just higher power. Less coloring of sound if you want.
The amps in this price range usually deploy the awesome TPA6120A2 circuit. Two of them are needed for stereo balanced, one can do stereo single ended.
I think that any of those two will serve you right.

Disclaimer: Personally, I paid $90 for this version, using the same two TPA6120A2 circuits: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251...2UYfk25&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US
I swapped the OpAmps, did a small mod on grounding... but that's me, I like to tinker.

Thx for your opinion.

Can you bring some proof of this amplifier is the same ? I really doubt of it.

Just a question: Can you imagine the face of this thread if everyone copies my initial message like you?

 

[SoNic]

Can you bring some proof of this amplifier is the same ? I really doubt of it.

Not the same. But using the same output chips.

WEILIANG, or BRZHiFi... board E600 V1.7

I got this from Aliexpress. installed under my PC monitor. My sound card is a SoundBlaster ZxR, with a dedicated headphone amp, with one TPA6120A2 chip. Was doing great for my AKG K701 (62 ohm impedance), but was kind of struggling with my HiFiMan Deva Pro (16 ohm). I decided to give a try to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Not the same. But using the same output chips.

WEILIANG, or BRZHiFi... board E600 V1.7

I got this from Aliexpress. installed under my PC monitor. My sound card is a SoundBlaster ZxR, with a dedicated headphone amp, with one TPA6120A2 chip. Was doing great for my AKG K701 (62 ohm impedance), but was kind of struggling with my HiFiMan Deva Pro (16 ohm). I decided to give a try to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Aside from having fun, there is no evidence whatsoever that your changes actually improved or even changed anything. Correct?

All based on sighted, non level matched listening?

I mean I get it. One is excited to have successfully soldered something and this creates an incredible (unconscious) bias that it must be better.

Please I don’t want to take the fun away and these kind of projects teach you something and all, but going the next step and recommending it to others is a bit of a leap without some facts.

 

[SoNic]

Aside from having fun, there is no evidence whatsoever that your changes actually improved or even changed anything. Correct?

All based on sighted, non level matched listening?

I mean I get it. One is excited to have successfully soldered something and this creates an incredible (unconscious) bias that it must be better.

Please I don’t want to take the fun away and these kind of projects teach you something and all, but going the next step and recommending it to others is a bit of a leap without some facts.

I asked @amirm to test it, compared to other amps he tested, but he was not interested.
To me, the use of the same output amp chip (TI TPA 6120A2), decent capacitors and potentiometer, is sufficient to convince me that the others cannot sound that much better. It's just the law of diminishing returns. Personally I like how it was designed internally. It even has a headphone protection circuit (relay), that some other amps don't have and burn out headphones. Yep, might be hearsay for you, but I don't want to test it on my headphones.
Definitely the Schiit Magnius don't have any protection circuits on their boards, just a simple delay circuit (one transistor), no DC detection:
https://www.schiit.com/public/upload/images/magnius PCB 1920.jpg
Magni is the same:

https://www.schiit.com/public/upload/images/magni%20plus%20internal%201920.jpg

https://www.schiit.com/public/upload/images/Magni%20Heretic%20Internal-1920.jpg

Compare those pics with the board that I have.

I didn't recommend it, I just stated what I have done. And when asked, I stated my opinion about that. Even said that's not the same.

The hum elimination (by decoupling the two grounds) was very clear, no need for "level matched listening". Yep, that was a weird thing, probably because in US we have all grounded receptacles... as opposed to other countries.

As for the OpAm swap... on paper they are much better, newer generation. Audio is hard to do comparation unless you swap only one channel and then listen a mono signal... IDK, I like to have better things inside my devices, especially if it doesn't cost me anything. The OpAmps that came with, the JRC 5532 series, are venerable and respected, so indeed the LM 4562NA it might not add that much.