Hello and I have a question about iPods and DACs

[Dr Soot]

Hello all, I am pretty new to this group but have been reading up as much as I can. I cannot find an answer to my question (maybe it's out there, but it escapes me). I recently uncovered my old iPod Classic 5.5 gen. I charged it and it works great. I would like it to work better. Is there a way to circumvent the built in DAC in the iPod? I have tried a number of cable combinations, but I would assume once the signal comes through the headphone jack, it is analog. I am not going to try and send it through an A to D board just to get it back into a DAC, not that it would make a difference, not really sure.

Anyway, has anyone done this?

Thanks for all the amazing posts and audio education I am getting as a member here.

Cheers,

Pedro

 

[Blake Klondike]

I have one of these and it works well for that:

https://www.amazon.com/Oppo-HA-2-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00UW0BP48

 

[Dr Soot]

So you went from the headphone jack the amp? Doesn't that require a digital output for the iPod?

 

[Wes]

Apple has a lot of tricks in their devices. You may have the "old digital connector built into the analog connector" trick on yours.

I don't have your version but post a quality macro pic and I bet somebody can determine if you do.

 

[Chrispy]

Generally there's nothing wrong with the dac in the ipods is there? Maybe an issue for particular headphone amp purposes?

ps Isn't digital connection an option?

 

[Wes]

Apple often or usually has pretty good DACs in their products. I dunno about older ipods or his ipod. He could try an outboard DAC in a blinded listening test or even a casual one, and see what he thinks.

 

[JohnBooty]

You have some options. Hope you really enjoy the word "apparently" since I'm about to use it a bunch.

• Some iPods classic (5th gen and newer) can apparently output digital audio over the 30-pin connector, and apparently a few manufacturers made external DACs that connected directly to the 30-pin port.
• Apparently many standard USB DACs can also be used via Apple's "30-pin Camera Connector Kit" (really, just a USB connector) although compatibility is really hit and miss -- some USB devices draw too much power and so iDevices won't utilize them. I know this was an issue with the 1st-gen Audioquest Dragonfly DAC.

More "info" here at 6moons. I put the word "info" in quotes because 6moons contains a great deal of eye-rolling audiophoolery about magic snake oil crap. However, as far as the nuts and bolts of how you plug a DAC into an iPod Classic... I'm sure it's a reliable enough source.

I have one of these and it works well for that:
https://www.amazon.com/Oppo-HA-2-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00UW0BP48

So you went from the headphone jack the amp? Doesn't that require a digital output for the iPod?

If I'm understanding correctly that Oppo apparently has both USB (digital) and analog inputs. You could obviously use the analog input directly from the iPod's analog output (which would not bypass the iPod's internal DAC) or perhaps connect it digitally via the USB port via the 30-pin camera thingy (which would bypass the iPod's internal DAC).

That said, aren't iPod Classics known for having some pretty nice analog output, particularly the 5.5 gen? What headphones you using? Sure you need to bring more firepower to the battle here?

 

[Dr Soot]

From what I understand, the version I have is the 5.5th generation, and it has a Wolfson DAC, which is a German made one and considered quite good, but it is poo poo for powering my 300 Ohm headphones. I do have IEMs, which is powers just fine, but to be completely transparent, I love tinkering and this is mostly an excuse to mod my iPod in a way that I will get something out of it. Not just for the sake of modding it. If the onboard DAC is as good as I can get it, then so be it. I will try the 30 Pin out to see if that works, and I have a Topping NX4 that has an analog in, and that works. But that is not fun, that is too simple a solution .

 

[garbulky]

I think the apple camera connection kit (30 pin) is your best bet - unless your analog out has that hiddent optical output inside it. If it does, the optical output that would definitely be the easier way to handle it. Will need some research. Keep in mind if you go with the CCK, you may also have to have a separate USB battery to provide sufficient power to power your DAC (you connect it to the 30 pin adapter). It depends on how it is configured. HAVING SAID THAT.... it is possible none of these solutions will work...

 

[escape2]

Fand it has a Wolfson DAC, which is a German made one and considered quite good, but it is poo poo for powering my 300 Ohm headphones.

DAC doesn't power your headphones. The amp does. The built-in DAC may be good, but if the amp is weak, it will not be able to adequately power high impedance headphones. For that you should look into an external DAC and amp. See if you can get your Topping to work via USB connection to the iPod.

 

[Dr Soot]

DAC doesn't power your headphones. The amp does. The built-in DAC may be good, but if the amp is weak, it will not be able to adequately power high impedance headphones. For that you should look into an external DAC and amp. See if you can get your Topping to work via USB connection to the iPod.

Valid distinction, thank you and of course, you are correct.

 

[Dr Soot]

I think the apple camera connection kit (30 pin) is your best bet - unless your analog out has that hiddent optical output inside it. If it does, the optical output that would definitely be the easier way to handle it. Will need some research. Keep in mind if you go with the CCK, you may also have to have a separate USB battery to provide sufficient power to power your DAC (you connect it to the 30 pin adapter). It depends on how it is configured. HAVING SAID THAT.... it is possible none of these solutions will work...

Won’t know till I try, thank you all. You have given me some great ideas. Thank you!!!!

 

[JohnBooty]

Won’t know till I try, thank you all. You have given me some great ideas. Thank you!!!!

I certainly wouldn't mind updates.... I'd like to hear what kind of solution you rig up and how it works out for you!

I kind of miss classic iPods, was thinking of maybe picking one up at some point....

 

[JohnBooty]

Keep in mind if you go with the CCK, you may also have to have a separate USB battery to provide sufficient power to power your DAC (you connect it to the 30 pin adapter). It depends on how it is configured. HAVING SAID THAT.... it is possible none of these solutions will work...

It's sometimes a little wonkier than simply supplying external power to the USB DAC.

I remember trying to use my Schiit Modi 2 Uber as a DAC for my iPhone/iPad about five years ago via the Lightning-to-USB adapter. It wouldn't work, even though the Modi 2U was being powered by an external AC adapter.

This was apparently the Modi 2U's "fault", because it was reporting to the iPhone that it needed more power than it actually did, so therefore the iPhone refused to utilize it because it was unwilling to supply that much power. I'm not sure how common that issue is or isn't with various DACs out there.

(I don't remember if I tried using a powered USB 2.0 hub between the iPhone and Modi)

 

[sailor2005]

I have one of these.. you would get an SPDIF on coax output from the 30-pin connector ...

https://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/1008wad/index.html
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-JAI0gIOcLsE/p_727170I/Wadia-170iTransport-Silver.html

there were a couple of other brands that made similar devices

 

[Dr Soot]

I certainly wouldn't mind updates.... I'd like to hear what kind of solution you rig up and how it works out for you!

I kind of miss classic iPods, was thinking of maybe picking one up at some point....

I’ll gladly provide an update.

 

[eas]

That iPod isn't running iOS. I doubt the 30-pin camera connection kit will work with it. It didn't even work with the iPhone, just the iPad.

I don't think any iPods had a combined analog/optical 3.5mm jack, either.

I'd find an old Apple dock with a line-out. That or a stereo microscope and some nice rework tools.

 

[victor_laszlo]

I'm in the same situation with the exact same iPod and using a Schitt Modi 3. The camera connection kit does not work--it is incompatible with the iPod (as the iPod itself tells me when I plug in the adapter).

I have also tried a dual USB A to Micro USB adapter (one USB A for power and one for data) and that didn't work either.

My iPhone with a lightning port works with the Modi using the Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter (the Apple lightning to USB 2 camera adapter did not work--I think because the USB 3 adapter has a separate port for power to be provided to the iPhone).

I really like my old iPod classic--and I just put a new battery in it.

 

[Robin L]

From what I understand, the version I have is the 5.5th generation, and it has a Wolfson DAC, which is a German made one and considered quite good, but it is poo poo for powering my 300 Ohm headphones. I do have IEMs, which is powers just fine, but to be completely transparent, I love tinkering and this is mostly an excuse to mod my iPod in a way that I will get something out of it. Not just for the sake of modding it. If the onboard DAC is as good as I can get it, then so be it. I will try the 30 Pin out to see if that works, and I have a Topping NX4 that has an analog in, and that works. But that is not fun, that is too simple a solution .
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I wound up giving up on I-Pods altogether, they simply are not competitive in today's market. As a stand-alone DAP, I've got a $69 Fiio M3K. The output is limited to 25 mw @ 32 ohms, but the AKG K371 is a good match, plenty of volume, bass, clarity. I've got 512 gb of micro sd for storage [about $80, as I recall], that holds 1600 CDs worth of lossless files. The same files are on the computer on a 512 gb micro-flash drive [also about $80]. That's hooked up to the Topping E/L30 combo, via an Acer Aspire 5 laptop. I've downloaded APO EQ, that gets used with the Drop 6XX headphones and results in loudness compensation with the speakers [a/d/s 400s, small Sonance powered sub, speakers powered by a Yamaha AVR].

There might be some nostalgia factor in using a device that holds 30 gb worth of music. If you haven't already tried the AKG K371, it will give a lot more volume than most headphones, plenty of bass. But if you want to upgrade your source I'm afraid you're going to have to get a more recent DAP.

 

[JohnBooty]

There might be some nostalgia factor in using a device that holds 30 gb worth of music.

I believe a lot of the appeal is that many (most? all?) of the HDD based iPods can be easily upgraded to use CompactFlash storage or even SDXC storage.

Throw one of those in there and you have a competitive little unit depending on what in particular one values. Nostalgia is definitely a factor too.