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Hegel HD12 DSD DAC And Headphone Amp Review

gvl

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Unless we are talking SOTA amplification like the AHB2, a typical amp will effectively dither the quantization distortion. I suppose lack of dither is more of a problem for headphone amps, as we see many deliver very good performance that will let the quantization error through.
 
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gvl

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There is the USB A/B mode switch on the back. I came across some info that Hegel supplies ASIO drivers but the USB mode selector must be in the B position, presumably for UCA2, for the ASIO driver to work.
 

Willem

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Mistakes can happen and Amir apologized, so that should be the end of that part of the story. What remains is the question whether with the new measurements this unit is a good DAC, and worth its price. In terms of absolute quality it is a pretty decent DAC, but not really great. In terms of value for money it is not that attractive, of course. An ADI-2 is much better, both in terms of measurements and in terms of features, and for rather less. Since this is a discontinued product, the question remains of course whether such a comparison is fair.
 

gvl

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Unlike now there hasn't been a proliferation of well performing devices from China 5 years ago, considering the competition at that time the price doesn't seem to be too much out of place given the functionality. Under today's realities it makes little sense pay $700-800 for a used one which seem to be the asking price for these DACs, not to mention the full price if buying new.
 

Tks

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I am still trying to figure out where you get this from. Hegel didn't provide the ASIO4ALL wrapper interface that Amir uses reluctantly because of the limitations of the analyzer. This is my understanding of the situation. Amir writes in the first review: "For testing, I downloaded their drivers as the standard one truncated to 16 bits with ASIO4ALL wrapper interface I use." Even the non-Hegel driver had this problem. Just because this dac is not compatible with a particular wrapper doesn't mean the unit has a busted USB I/O implementation.

Fair enough, you make a better point, I didn't think that through much at all when I spoke.
 

Tks

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That point was made several times, but I think both Amir and I could have been a bit more clear. It does at times sound like you have something personal against Hegel--and I get the deep irony of me being the person who submitted the dac saying this. However, you are always charming about it and are willing to walk back remarks, which I appreciate.

Yeah I misspoke completely. I guess I was quickly typing away and decided to frame my thought in that way. What I meant to do was to frame the idea as represented in fact (the event being a retest being in order due to the ASIO wrapper, not the actually results themselves as indicative of the products actual performance). So haphazardly summarized the event in a completely ineptly described summation.

I got nothing against the company, as they do nothing to offend me. Heck I am happy with the company for even openly making an account here and giving some words about their products. A far cry of others who hide behind bushes.

My perplexity was to the post I was replying to. The fellow had some massive flaws in reasoning that I wanted to hash out. The criticisms I laid out can be universally applied to any product, and doesn’t have much to do with audio at all, let alone audio products. Let alone this one being reviewed (aside from being used as an example in referencing an idea attempting to be conveyed in one or two portions of that prior lengthy post of mine).
 
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amirm

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You cannot directly compare China mass maker retail prices to what the same thing must necessarily cost when built by a small company in an expensive country.
Why not? Do you have two kinds of currencies for equipment you purchase from China versus another country? Assuming not, then money is money. I pass judgement if I were to spend my own money for one gear versus another.

It goes without saying, and no one needs me to tell them that, that support, brand recognition, resale value, looks, features, local dealer service, etc. all come into play in an ultimate decision to purchase something.

The choices companies make in where they build products is their thing, not ours as consumers. If they choose to use higher cost manufacturing, they hope the fact that product is produced that way helps compensate for higher cost. Or that it gives them time to market advantage. Or less hassle in getting a product to manufacturing. This is not our concern as consumers.

Apple manufactures iPhone in China. You think that becomes a judgement call for someone reviewing an iphone?

Personally I own extremely expensive high-end audio gear. I value the design, support, relationship and other intangibles that came with them. But I cannot let that pollute my judgement of gear for other people. Most people want to know about the best value for highest performance. It is an ideal that we can actually hit in DAC domain.
 
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amirm

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Dither is absolutely correct and a MUST for 16 bit data!!
That is not his point. Most DACs these days don't come with ASIO drivers. Since my analyzer only accepts ASIO interface, I resort to using ASIO4ALL to provide such an interface. In a few instances, I have caught ASIO4ALL truncating to 16 bits. This has a definite signature and when I see that, as I did in this case, I avoided using ASIO4ALL.

In this scenario, there was no signature of such truncation. I am guessing that conversion to 16 bit was performed and dither applied and hence removing the signature. Without a signature, there was no way to distinguish between dithered 16 bits and true performance of a DAC. Company had not provided measurements as I provide so there was no other reference to know otherwise. This is the first time, after testing over 200 DACs, that this has happened.

Ultimately we are dealing with audio products and drivers/windows software. This connection is never 100% reliable. It is further aggravated by Audio Precision's choice to only support ASIO as an interface which is falling out of favor in consumer audio. So we need to be aware that once in a while such problems may interfere with measurements.

A mechanism is built in to deal with this: the forum. You all and manufacturer can engage to examine the results, critique or ask for additional measurements. This happened and we caught the issue and resolved it. I wish the issue had not arisen. I aspire to not let it. I just can't avoid it 100% of the time.
 

Willem

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For a consumer it does not matter what the cost structure is for a manufacturer. That is the manufacturer's problem if cost is not competitive. However, higher cost and price can be offset by higher quality (as in the case of Benchmark or RME).
Personally my only concern would be if labour conditions would be exploitative as they often are in e.g. the garment industry.
Hegel by the way manufactures in China and not in Norway.
 
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amirm

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@amirm did you investigate the alternative asio to wasapi drivers with the AP?
Yes, many times. In every case that ASIO4ALL has failed, I have tried other options. Some are very hard to use, et.c. ASIOFlex since you have to hand edit configuration settings. That is OK for one time use, but not for what I do. Even then, I still could not get it to work. Some options hang the AP software altogether.
 

Soniclife

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Yes, many times. In every case that ASIO4ALL has failed, I have tried other options. Some are very hard to use, et.c. ASIOFlex since you have to hand edit configuration settings. That is OK for one time use, but not for what I do. Even then, I still could not get it to work. Some options hang the AP software altogether.
Is there some sort of usb bridge module you could use? Something that you can trust for the AP to control via asio, but that outputs universal usb to a DAC?
 
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amirm

amirm

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Is there some sort of usb bridge module you could use? Something that you can trust for the AP to control via asio, but that outputs universal usb to a DAC?
Not that I know of.
 

gvl

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JRiver installs a ASIO interface, then it can forward data onto a WASAPI device in exclusive mode, no need to send the data over network. It will add some latency, not sure if AP can deal with it.
 
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amirm

amirm

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JRiver installs a ASIO interface, then it can forward data onto a WASAPI device in exclusive mode, no need to send the data over network. It will add some latency, not sure if AP can deal with it.
Thanks but who knows what bugs they could bring. And at any rate, I won't be able to defend that I am using the DAC as intended.
 

gvl

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Thanks but who knows what bugs they could bring. And at any rate, I won't be able to defend that I am using the DAC as intended.

Same can be said about using ASIO4ALL.
 
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