Hegel H95 Review (Streaming Amplifier)

[restorer-john]

The CD players had been around for 40 years. Why should anyone expect to find levels pre-dating CD on a modern amplifier?

Current Yamaha amplifier AS-501:

Accuphase E-5000 current model:

150mV was typical in the 70s, 80s and 90s. It's now around 200-250mV on line inputs for full rated power on SE RCAs. Power amplifiers are usually from 1.0V-2.0V for full rated power.

 

[Geert]

The defacto 'standard' for line level inputs on consumer HiFi for many decades, right up to and well past the introducing of Compact Disc was 150mV for full rated power.

Than we probably had different standards. To provide one reference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin...hemselves,(dBu) for professional applications..

 

[Lambda]

ASR should have a category
Manufacturer react to bad reviews its relay hilarious how some of them react and often there responses is worse then there product.

If they claim @amirm is using / measuring it wrong than why don't they tell everyone how to uses it properly so it reaches the specs they claim on there website.

 

[pma]

Now the “standard” has been 2V SE, 4V balanced output voltage for digital sources, for several decades. We do not live in nineteen seventies and eighties. I understand the nostalgy, but it is not technically correct. The full output is definitely needed in case of recordings with high dynamic range like philharmonic orchestra. We often have useful dynamic range of such recordings above 60 dB.

Edit: talking about consumer audio of course, not studio.

 

[Billy Budapest]

We already have a (new) response, exactly what I predicted. From their sales manager an hour ago on the Hegel Music System Facebook group:

"Noise and distortion measurements have some questionable values when it comes to sound quality in an amp. You can easily achieve very good measurements by introducing a lot of feedback loops and elaborate circuitry, however, that doesn't matter when the amp sounds bad and boring in the end of the day. Marantz PM90 is a typical Japanese late 80's construction, it sounds ok, but rather dull and lacks dynamics. NAD 2200 is powerfull and dynamic, but coarse and lacking in detail. Nobody with working ears would consider any of these remotely close to any current Hegel amp in sound quality.

The virtue of the Sound Engine technology isn't low distortion and noise data. This technology makes us able to construct great sounding amps with short signal paths (that actually measures reasonably good) without the use of extensive feedback loops, which would render good measurement, but bad sound.

I also happen to know the Yamaha WXA-50 quite well, it's a decent custom installation amp for secondary listening with very good functionality and versatility. If somebody would prefer this to a Hegel H95 when it comes to sound quality, please be my guest. They are probably the same people that would prefer a Budweiser over a Budvar".

So in the end this will boil down to "differences in believe".

What exactly is “bad” about utilizing feedback? It’s like the audiophile myths about opamps and sandcast resistors and mosfet transistors: baseless.

And as a St. Louisan, I take offense at the crack against Budweiser!

 

[Geert]

If they claim @amirm is using / measuring it wrong than why don't they tell everyone how to uses it properly so it reaches the specs they claim on there website.

It's not just a claim, the measurements show its driven into saturation.

Now the “standard” has been 2V SE, 4V balanced output voltage for digital sources, for several decades. We do not live in nineteen seventies and eighties. I understand the nostalgy, but it is not technically correct.

Do you have an official reference to the 2V standard for 'line outputs'? I can provides hundreds of references to the use of the -10dBV standard, and it was in use by pro audio brands till not that long ago. (With a switch of course just in case you needed to connect to a consumer grade device).

But it's all besides the question. Hegel can use whatever standard they prefer, but it would have been nice if they would have published it so the customer can check if it fulfils his needs and he can take care not to overdrive it.

 

[restorer-john]

Now the “standard” has been 2V SE, 4V balanced output voltage for digital sources, for several decades. We do not live in nineteen seventies and eighties. I understand the nostalgy, but it is not technically correct. The full output is definitely needed in case of recordings with high dynamic range like philharmonic orchestra. We often have useful dynamic range of such recordings above 60 dB.

Pavel, I am not talking about the standard** output level of the Compact Disc format, I am talking about the defacto* standard line input sensitivity for full rated power in consumer HiFi SE integrated and preamplifiers. It has never been 2V.

Read my post. Power amplifiers had typical sensitivities for full rated power of between 1.0V and 2.0V SE.

*Used by most manufacturers since Adam was a boy and continues to this day. It ranges from 120mV to maybe 250mV depending on manufacturers, with THE most common level being 150mV.

**Incidentally, the industry standard for Compact Disc, agreed to by manufacturers was inititially set at 1.4V, not 2.0V. It was changed at the last minute for worldwide release in March 1983 after a few manufacturers went rogue with high voltages (Sony) prior (Oct 1982). Manufacturers had to quickly send out service bulletins to have the line buffer stages increase their voltages to fit the "new" standard for product already shipped and production going forward.

 

[Lambda]

It's not just a claim, the measurements show its driven into saturation.

Why is it build in a way it saturates?
why is there no clipping indicator?
How to drive it properly without clipping?

 

[Geert]

Why is it build in a way it saturates?
why is there no clipping indicator?
How to drive it properly without clipping?

You can saturate anything if the input signal level is high enough and you turn up the volume completely. So to avoid clipping, don't do so.

A clipping indicator on the line out of a hifi device? Never seen it.

 

[aliqaz]

As an owner of these amps I believe the variable line out is to drive subwoofers.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I have the answer to it !
Actually i found it in "The Founder". It's all about names! How could a gear by Hegel not be philosophically superior to all the rest...

Hegel was undoubtedly the most muddled of the German Idealists, and his philosophy became part of the ideological underpinning of National Socialism.

 

[Triliza]

I have a hard time understanding this result, fellas.
What's more likely to be the case here?:
A) They are already famed and successful so they just take whatever unfinished designs they have and sell it at a high price because they know people will just buy it anyway
OR
B) Despite having years of experience and receiving praises in this industry, they are somehow still incapable of creating objectively sound products?

I mean like, I don't even NEED or EXPECT every product to have 0,0000000001% distortion or 120dB+ SINAD with ruler flat FR or something. But don't they want to at least design some statement products just to guarantee that they CAN make good products when they aim to.

Schiit really did make a lot of people shut up and stop talking shit about their products when they released Modius & Magnius. It proved that despite having inadequate measurements on other products from them, they are more than capable to design SOTA devices to prove their worth as engineers.

Wondering the same. I came up with two explanations:
1. This is the best design they could come up with on this price range. Not the case probably, but you never know.
2. They have loyal customers to their brand and aim at them. You buy this model, it sounds alright, but nothing special as you'd expect. So you talk to your nearby hi-fi dealer/read online reviews and are advised to get their more expensive models. And maybe their more expensive models are really good, so much better to this one that you can really hear a difference, everyone is happy. And if they aren't that good, with the money you spent you make-believe yourself that they sound just great.

And people, stop making puns about Hegel, the other logical alternative would be Kierkegaard, and as much as I like that guy, he surely doesn't make a good name for an amp. Hegel is a good choice, nobody understood what exactly was his point, same as H95.

 

[amirm]

I think the problem isn't that they haven't measured their own gear. The problem is that they have NOT measured other people's gear! Or read our site as a substitute. If they had, they would have realized how far behind they are in DAC and headphone amplifier categories. And how their distortion-less amplifier has a lot more distortion than state of the art.

I am also sure that they don't run the comprehensive tests that I run. So naturally there are issues there that they have not seen.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Clearly a case of putting Des Carte before the horse with regard to price before performance, and seems to have Locke-d up last place when in comes to actual value.

They think it's worth $2k, therefore it is. Needless to say the pricing policy also provides the greatest good for the greatest number of Hegel Execs.

 

[Lambda]

You can saturate anything if the input signal level is high enough and you turn up the volume completely. So to avoid clipping, don't do so.

If the input is digital you can only input 0dBFS. Every device shuld be able to handle 0dBFS without clipping at any volume.

 

[MZKM]

I think the problem isn't that they haven't measured their own gear. The problem is that they have NOT measured other people's gear! Or read our site as a substitute. If they had, they would have realized how far behind they are in DAC and headphone amplifier categories. And how their distortion-less amplifier has a lot more distortion than state of the art.

I am also sure that they don't run the comprehensive tests that I run. So naturally there are issues there that they have not seen.

I always roll my eyes whenever an audio company states they make the best products they can and don’t care what the competition is doing.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

The H95 was meant to be my all in one dream amp that one day I wish I could afford and be an endgame amp. Now you ruined the fantasy for me @amirm

I would like to imagine that you just had a faulty unit.

Like finding out your dream girl has horrible hygiene.

 

[amirm]

@amirm, for my understanding, how far did you need to open the volume control to reach 2 V?

That was indicated on the graph:

I think the volume control goes to 99 or 100. I maxed it out initially and it produced 2.4 volts so I backed it down to get our nominal standard of 2 volts. So as is, I am not taking full advantage of the output level that the unit provides.

And say people would use the line output to drive a sub, is this volume control setting something people might use in practise when using a digital input or would this level drive the power output stage of the amp into clipping?

The own complained that he could not get enough volume to drive his sub.

That aside, I did not test it this way for the amplifier. For the amplifier, I set the volume to have the gain of 29 dB per every amplifier I test. I fed it analog input first for just 5 watts. And then switched digital and matched input digital level to get the same 5 watts with the same volume control. This necessitated backing the digital level way down:

As you see, the digital level input to the internal DAC is now set to -24 dBFS. So no way it should have clipped internally and it did not. Yet the digital input heavily degraded noise performance of the amplifier.

No way you want to implement an internal DAC which degrades the performance of an amplifier. Just about every DAC I test has ability to be completely transparent to the 81 dB SINAD of H95. The one in H95 is not capable of doing so in my measurements.

Bottom line, in testing the amplifier, no clipping occurred. If it had, you would have seen a lot more spikes in FFT.

 

[amirm]

I always roll my eyes whenever an audio company states they make the best products they can and don’t care what the competition is doing.

When I jointed Microsoft, we had a key competitor. I changed my home page in the browser to be their site! That way, every time I started it I would see if they had announced anything. If they had, I would immediately download, test and benchmark what they had. As a result, I was way ahead of everyone else in having that knowledge. And made sure to keep our product group accountable to match and beat them.

 

[Absolute]

I think the problem isn't that they haven't measured their own gear. The problem is that they have NOT measured other people's gear! Or read our site as a substitute. If they had, they would have realized how far behind they are in DAC and headphone amplifier categories. And how their distortion-less amplifier has a lot more distortion than state of the art.

I am also sure that they don't run the comprehensive tests that I run. So naturally there are issues there that they have not seen.

I don't see the need to speculate on these things. The measurements and a closer look at how it's constructed tells us everything we need to know about the manufacturer's commitment and/or skill to make it perform as good as possible.