Hegel H95 Review (Streaming Amplifier)

[DavyRockstar]

Can you tell me then why so many people raved about Marantz's warm sound? ASR has reviewed at least half a dozen of Marantz AVRs (2 that I can remember), 2 each of the AV7705 and AV8805, among others, please show me which one of them shows more second order harmonics than the 3rd, 5th, 7th etc. If you cannot, then I would suggest you add one more important thing that's been happening, mind tricks!! What I said about the Marantz example, probably applied to Hegel's too. Food for thought, if the total harmonics amount to less than say 0.05%, that is -66.5 dB, does it better too much whether that's made of 2nd to 3rd harmonics in a 2:1, or 1:2 ratio? Same point on bass, I have never seen any Hegel, Marantz, or any so called warm AVRs, AVPs, integrated amp, power amps that have +3 dB boost in all bass region, let alone the whopping +12 dB you used as example. That could be possible in some old single ended valve amps, not the modern ones like McIntosh's or Luxman's.

To be clear, I agree you are right that second harmonics and some sort of bass boost could give people the perception of "warmth", I am just saying because of this being very highly one of the main reason, the other main reason is also people's mind are easily tricked, seemingly anyway.

well, i'll try to explain myself
first i think what people refer as warm sounding is not a general balance in bass region but the balance in the mid range section, as far as i understand a warm sounding amp is the one that adds a touch of mid bass to the mids, so the voices sounds "warmer" but the rest of the bass remains in balance... as an owner of the marantz 2230 and FR4000 (the vintage unit) they tend to sound warm but this is because they lack of services, but after a recap non of this units sounds "warm" in the first place, most people think "there is a warm to the touch" 'cause the the unit is opaque due to the lack of services such as recap or dirty potenciometers and switches.... my 2230 is crispy clear in sound even a little bit sparkly in top. the other reason of this warmth is 'cause everyone uses loudness all the time, and for my 2230 is like +10dB in bass and +6dB in treble (there is no way to know this with certainty, just my ear), after service i don't use loudness anymore the treble gets aggressive with my speakers...

now, in my Marantz 2230, FR4000, kenwood KA-880D, and Nakamichi amplifier one, the mid range section i feel they are quiet the same in tonality with great balance, but the Nak feels cleaner slighty more forward, detailed but less harsh at the same time at high volumes compared to the other units, and this is why it is my main amp
i was an owner of a Yamaha Rs300 very lean amplifier, slightly leaner than the other units and also a coldness in the mid range section (but once you use loudness you can wake up and see the power of the unit and in my opinion you can get a good sinergy with most speakers)
i also have a pioneer elite AVR in stereo config, don't remember the model; paired with a topping E30 DAC, refference vintage infinity speakers, speakers that i tested with other amps, and well this amp in flat is quiet bass heavy but the mid range section is not warm at all, and i like how the system sounds flat without any EQ fix

But the fact that in general balance a Hegel amp sounds more powerfull in bass, "more autoritarian" (i think is how peaople describe it) than my Kenwood with loudness on, but at the same time such a refinement, that you don't really feel what is going on you just see the cones moving like crazy at relatively low volumes and that "dark background" (dark background that the kenwood with loudness almost achieves) makes me think there is something goin' on with the signal and i belive is in the preamp section of these Hegel amplifiers

So far i think the Hegel sound is my favorite amog all recievers that i have ever listen to, and as i said before i use a +10dB curve using DSP EQ, my main source being my computer using a PRO-JECT (pro box s2 digital) DAC and while i get the bass there is a lot that can't be obtained with just EQ
i also listened to a NAD M10 and it felt bloated (with flat sound, but can't tell if there was EQ going on) to me specially compared vs a Hegel amp

 

[DavyRockstar]

When I look at a Marantz, I automatically think of a warm sound, even from the picture. I think this is something from the past analog era. You can see Marantz gear in mainstream movies, like the receiver in the last Tarantino movie with the glowing scale of the radio.

well it is not quiet true, i mean, one more time, you can use loudness but is more of a V shape sound not just "warm"... usually that type of sound is caused by the lack of services in vintage unit that they will sound opaque more than just warm. But usually vintage Marantz sounds crisp and clean in my opinion

 

[DavyRockstar]

Right, with eyes open, mine looks warm, and feels warm too when I touch them. Eyes closed, not so much.

View attachment 342097View attachment 342098

and well that is another question and i also experimented the sound with power amps + preamps.... and i do agree i think the sound is more balanced being equipment that really can move anithing with autority, but i feel that most recievers are just bass lacking in comparison

 

[HarmonicTHD]

well, i'll try to explain myself
first i think what people refer as warm sounding is not a general balance in bass region but the balance in the mid range section, as far as i understand a warm sounding amp is the one that adds a touch of mid bass to the mids, so the voices sounds "warmer" but the rest of the bass remains in balance... as an owner of the marantz 2230 and FR4000 (the vintage unit) they tend to sound warm but this is because they lack of services, but after a recap non of this units sounds "warm" in the first place, most people think "there is a warm to the touch" 'cause the the unit is opaque due to the lack of services such as recap or dirty potenciometers and switches.... my 2230 is crispy clear in sound even a little bit sparkly in top. the other reason of this warmth is 'cause everyone uses loudness all the time, and for my 2230 is like +10dB in bass and +6dB in treble (there is no way to know this with certainty, just my ear), after service i don't use loudness anymore the treble gets aggressive with my speakers...

now, in my Marantz 2230, FR4000, kenwood KA-880D, and Nakamichi amplifier one, the mid range section i feel they are quiet the same in tonality with great balance, but the Nak feels cleaner slighty more forward, detailed but less harsh at the same time at high volumes compared to the other units, and this is why it is my main amp
i was an owner of a Yamaha Rs300 very lean amplifier, slightly leaner than the other units and also a coldness in the mid range section (but once you use loudness you can wake up and see the power of the unit and in my opinion you can get a good sinergy with most speakers)
i also have a pioneer elite AVR in stereo config, don't remember the model; paired with a topping E30 DAC, refference vintage infinity speakers, speakers that i tested with other amps, and well this amp in flat is quiet bass heavy but the mid range section is not warm at all, and i like how the system sounds flat without any EQ fix

But the fact that in general balance a Hegel amp sounds more powerfull in bass, "more autoritarian" (i think is how peaople describe it) than my Kenwood with loudness on, but at the same time such a refinement, that you don't really feel what is going on you just see the cones moving like crazy at relatively low volumes and that "dark background" (dark background that the kenwood with loudness almost achieves) makes me think there is something goin' on with the signal and i belive is in the preamp section of these Hegel amplifiers

So far i think the Hegel sound is my favorite amog all recievers that i have ever listen to, and as i said before i use a +10dB curve using DSP EQ, my main source being my computer using a PRO-JECT (pro box s2 digital) DAC and while i get the bass there is a lot that can't be obtained with just EQ
i also listened to a NAD M10 and it felt bloated (with flat sound, but can't tell if there was EQ going on) to me specially compared vs a Hegel amp

…. and do you have some actual facts about that what you claim is indeed the case?

Usually FRs, THD and Noise measurements of those devices tell you all about whether there is indeed any tonality change expected or if it is just imagination.

Personally I wouldn’t want my electronics to change tonality unless I tell them so via eg EQ.

 

[DSJR]

now, in my Marantz 2230, FR4000, kenwood KA-880D, and Nakamichi amplifier one, the mid range section i feel they are quiet the same in tonality with great balance, but the Nak feels cleaner slighty more forward, detailed but less harsh at the same time at high volumes compared to the other units, and this is why it is my main amp
i was an owner of a Yamaha Rs300 very lean amplifier, slightly leaner than the other units and also a coldness in the mid range section (but once you use loudness you can wake up and see the power of the unit and in my opinion you can get a good sinergy with most speakers)
i also have a pioneer elite AVR in stereo config, don't remember the model; paired with a topping E30 DAC, refference vintage infinity speakers, speakers that i tested with other amps, and well this amp in flat is quiet bass heavy but the mid range section is not warm at all, and i like how the system sounds flat without any EQ fix

I like to feel that all our genuinely perceived sonic differences in amps can be measured and quantified. We sold a good few Nak Amp 2's and the odd Amp 1 (wasn't quite the right price point for us where the '2' model was) and back then, their range overall was good value and even the higher priced separates were good value compared to the US imports which dominated the UK high end scene (thanks to a guru reviewer or two in HiFi News).

Don't flame me here, but I think there's a bit of 'audiophile neurosis' going on, where rapid fire amp changes are just causing confusion and not really getting you anywhere... We humans can take half an hour or so (is it twenty minutes, I can't remember*) to adjust to changes and do bear in mind that your other senses are if anything, telling you more than your ears alone...

You know, I'd start from scratch as far as amps are concerned, possibly with a Topping PA7discrete (which should stay reliable). By the standards of amps you have it's cheap, pretty damned near state of the art if not pushed further than it can go and I'd be inclined to use that as a reference (leave it in situ for weeks/months to get used to it). You may come to the conclusion that your other amps, if they differ from something like the PA7discrete, are actually *distorting* the signal they're amplifying in some way or another...

*I have two old amps here I swap around from time to time. One of them is a tried and trusted US through-and-through ugly prosumer power amp from fifty years ago. It's bloody bombproof, was at or close to state of the art back then and still 'sounds like the recording played through it' changing it's 'sound' with the music still. The other is an ex editing suite UK made pro amp now out to grass chez moi with fair specs and I can hear a difference when swapping over, this MOS-FET based model sounding slightly 'brighter' and with a different low bass (it's sharply filtered below 20Hz). I find after a while this second amp, while not really doing anything wrong, tends to make things sound more the same as each other... Going back to the preferred amp, the sound is darker which I'm not so sure about to start with, but then the recording and production differences *seem* to be more audible to me. Put a blindfold on me and could I really tell the difference easily? Really not sure

 

[VintageFlanker]

Usually FRs, THD and Noise measurements of those devices tell you all about whether there is indeed any tonality change expected or if it is just imagination.

I would rather say that Gain is the common misleading factor when people are comparing amps without level-match...

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I would rather say that Gain is the common misleading factor when people are comparing amps without level-match...

Yep. As FR, SINAD is usually benign enough at least not to cause night and day differences in bass and treble.

 

[peng]

…. and do you have some actual facts about that what you claim is indeed the case?

Usually FRs, THD and Noise measurements of those devices tell you all about whether there is indeed any tonality change expected or if it is just imagination.

Personally I wouldn’t want my electronics to change tonality unless I tell them so via eg EQ.

I am not sure about him, but to me, every one's "warm" is going to be different as it is almost 100% a subjective thing and people don't always prefer the same. Some like their soup hotter, or warmer than others.

 

[DavyRockstar]

…. and do you have some actual facts about that what you claim is indeed the case?

Usually FRs, THD and Noise measurements of those devices tell you all about whether there is indeed any tonality change expected or if it is just imagination.

Personally I wouldn’t want my electronics to change tonality unless I tell them so via eg EQ.

well no, 'cause i don't have a Hegel nor NAD or McIntosh high end line

but sometimes I'm pissed off when a seller says "this amp sounds this way because of the power it delivers" which has any sense in absolute, 10W are 10W here and China and 1000W are 1000W here and China, the other absurdity that i also listened to is: "is about how it delivers power" so it is implied that more potential difference (voltage) is applied to some frequencies than others, which actually i agree with, but nobody can actually tell how this power is delivered in the first place.... but i can't understand the fear of the sellers to say: this amplifier does not deliver a flat frequency response instead it delivers the bass this or the other way, and the treble does this to achieve this sparkly sound and this is why is better match for this type of speakers... just as an example, but remember i know that JFET Marantz 2230 delivers a more sparkly sound due to the nature of the distortions in second order in the treble region which seems and feels to be a increase in some frequencies but is just harmonic distortion and the same could be said about valve amps.... but one more time, i can understand subtle changes in sound but more than +10 dB in a whole band of frequencies, this guys can't lie to me those amps do not deliver a flat response, BUT i can understand that's their industrial secret, and is impossible to figure it out unless a reverse engineering process is applied.

i have my mics and measurement software to test with pink noise which i like 'cause i can, for any particular reference speaker, know the changes between one amplifier to another, every receiver is slightly different from one to another, but for some reason if we measure one volt of amplitude at a certain frequency usually this potential difference won't change as we test other frequencies, and this is why i don't really trust this test to tell how an amplifier is delivering power, using pink noise is a better way to understand what is really going on. And it seems like this is true, because i believe the measurements in this review, when you just apply loudness or EQ those particular frequencies will increase or decrease the amplitude of "voltage" and as far as my tests with a Yamaha RS300 it delivered a flat response in voltage amplitude but it was the leanest in bass of all amps when it came to test with speakers....

 

[DavyRockstar]

I like to feel that all our genuinely perceived sonic differences in amps can be measured and quantified. We sold a good few Nak Amp 2's and the odd Amp 1 (wasn't quite the right price point for us where the '2' model was) and back then, their range overall was good value and even the higher priced separates were good value compared to the US imports which dominated the UK high end scene (thanks to a guru reviewer or two in HiFi News).

Don't flame me here, but I think there's a bit of 'audiophile neurosis' going on, where rapid fire amp changes are just causing confusion and not really getting you anywhere... We humans can take half an hour or so (is it twenty minutes, I can't remember*) to adjust to changes and do bear in mind that your other senses are if anything, telling you more than your ears alone...

You know, I'd start from scratch as far as amps are concerned, possibly with a Topping PA7discrete (which should stay reliable). By the standards of amps you have it's cheap, pretty damned near state of the art if not pushed further than it can go and I'd be inclined to use that as a reference (leave it in situ for weeks/months to get used to it). You may come to the conclusion that your other amps, if they differ from something like the PA7discrete, are actually *distorting* the signal they're amplifying in some way or another...

*I have two old amps here I swap around from time to time. One of them is a tried and trusted US through-and-through ugly prosumer power amp from fifty years ago. It's bloody bombproof, was at or close to state of the art back then and still 'sounds like the recording played through it' changing it's 'sound' with the music still. The other is an ex editing suite UK made pro amp now out to grass chez moi with fair specs and I can hear a difference when swapping over, this MOS-FET based model sounding slightly 'brighter' and with a different low bass (it's sharply filtered below 20Hz). I find after a while this second amp, while not really doing anything wrong, tends to make things sound more the same as each other... Going back to the preferred amp, the sound is darker which I'm not so sure about to start with, but then the recording and production differences *seem* to be more audible to me. Put a blindfold on me and could I really tell the difference easily? Really not sure

well i'll just tell:
in the pandemic enclosure i delivered some ears, and i tried to work as a restorer of vintage equipment so, believe me when i say that i can know if a tweeter service was good or not if any driver is not perfectly centered, and stuff like that
i cannot say that my ears are better than yours, but sure i can say I'm not deaf
and since the Hegel is my favorite high-end "sound signature" i can say that everything that a Hegel drives just feels to have more authority in bass and that's the first thing you notice when one set of speakers is driven by another "entry level amp" vs a Hegel
you can say is the damping factor, but my kenwood KA-880D is a >1000 DF unit (and recap 100%) and without loudness on it, sounds way leaner compared to the Hegel i could test my speakers with
and one more time i know this because without loudness those SB-F1 can play REALLY, REALLY loud, bassless but REALLY loud, and in that room with very "polite volume" there was already so much pressure in the box and the excursion of the drivers was so high, that i believe they were about to explode!!

 

[DavyRockstar]

ok guys i found this video so it can be a better way to explain, those are the Technics SB-F2's those are very small speakers (5") but compared to the F-1 (4.5") are way more efficient, which makes them to deliver a lot of volume with even less bass than the F1 model which is already very lean in bass, the F2 is the most forward sounding of that line of speakers, but see how a McIntosh system is driving them, them sure sound amazing that way... a little boxy sound, this is why you don't want to put too much bass in them
i mean in that video they do not even sound forward at all, haha

 

[HarmonicTHD]

well i'll just tell:
in the pandemic enclosure i delivered some ears, and i tried to work as a restorer of vintage equipment so, believe me when i say that i can know if a tweeter service was good or not if any driver is not perfectly centered, and stuff like that
i cannot say that my ears are better than yours, but sure i can say I'm not deaf
and since the Hegel is my favorite high-end "sound signature" i can say that everything that a Hegel drives just feels to have more authority in bass and that's the first thing you notice when one set of speakers is driven by another "entry level amp" vs a Hegel
you can say is the damping factor, but my kenwood KA-880D is a >1000 DF unit (and recap 100%) and without loudness on it, sounds way leaner compared to the Hegel i could test my speakers with
and one more time i know this because without loudness those SB-F1 can play REALLY, REALLY loud, bassless but REALLY loud, and in that room with very "polite volume" there was already so much pressure in the box and the excursion of the drivers was so high, that i believe they were about to explode!!

Have you seen this video? It might help to explain the differences you perceive.

Thread 'Audio Blind Testing - You Are Doing It Wrong! (Video)'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...d-testing-you-are-doing-it-wrong-video.26809/

 

[DavyRockstar]

Have you seen this video? It might help to explain the differences you perceive.

Thread 'Audio Blind Testing - You Are Doing It Wrong! (Video)'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...d-testing-you-are-doing-it-wrong-video.26809/

well actually... BUT since i only care abut changes in the output of a reference speaker system i use raw frequency response with pink noise....
actually, even cables show differences that this way are actually measurable, and for me as the listener is actually the only thing that i care about... i wont show my tests 'cause it is frustrating to upload photos in this forums
capacitors used in the crossover as well as the amplifiers main circuits, are also measurable this way... i mean why i would go audiograde in this kind of components if the sound that, i as the listener won't objectively perceive?? and if there is a subjective change that me as the listener perceive then it can be objectively proven this way
for example: going from aluminum to copper in speaker cable, how this affects sound objectively?? copper reduces peaks in the mid-high band of the frequency spectrum compared to aluminum. This is the answer i find doing test this way and since this is scientific it can be proven and also replicated.

 

[VintageFlanker]

i wont show my tests 'cause it is frustrating to upload photos in this forums

Are you kidding? How is it frustrating exactly?

well actually... BUT since i only care abut changes in the output of a reference speaker system i use raw frequency response with pink noise....
actually, even cables show differences that this way are actually measurable

Please show us, then. That would be much more interesting, here on Audio Science Review, than your anecdotes.

This is the answer i find doing test this way and since this is scientific it can be proven and also replicated.

Yet to be proven...

 

[Geert]

copper reduces peaks in the mid-high band of the frequency spectrum compared to aluminum. This is the answer i find doing test this way and since this is scientific it can be proven and also replicated.

You have a frequency response measurements of copper and aluminium cables which shows the attenuation of high frequencies is higher for the copper cables (while copper is a better electrical conductor)?

 

[VintageFlanker]

You have a frequency response measurements of copper and aluminium cables which shows the attenuation of high frequencies is higher for the copper cables (while copper is a better electrical conductor)?

To me, that's quite easy to explain :

Warm tones, warm sound.

Cold tones, bright sound.

That's common knowledge, come on !

 

[DSJR]

well i'll just tell:
in the pandemic enclosure i delivered some ears, and i tried to work as a restorer of vintage equipment so, believe me when i say that i can know if a tweeter service was good or not if any driver is not perfectly centered, and stuff like that
i cannot say that my ears are better than yours, but sure i can say I'm not deaf
and since the Hegel is my favorite high-end "sound signature" i can say that everything that a Hegel drives just feels to have more authority in bass and that's the first thing you notice when one set of speakers is driven by another "entry level amp" vs a Hegel
you can say is the damping factor, but my kenwood KA-880D is a >1000 DF unit (and recap 100%) and without loudness on it, sounds way leaner compared to the Hegel i could test my speakers with
and one more time i know this because without loudness those SB-F1 can play REALLY, REALLY loud, bassless but REALLY loud, and in that room with very "polite volume" there was already so much pressure in the box and the excursion of the drivers was so high, that i believe they were about to explode!!

It's ok, I heard some differences too in the decades before my ears crapped out on me (seriously in the last four or so but it may have been longer). In my case, I believe what I heard can be measured...

Oh - and for what it's worth, I *liked* the Hegel amps I used briefly (next up from this and the one above, not the 390) and tried to kind-of defend this one as a product from a much earlier time when 'good enough' was, well, good enough...

i can't find the references or the pics, but isn't there a far eastern made product that looks or maybe actually is, the same or darned close to this one internally?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

well actually... BUT since i only care abut changes in the output of a reference speaker system i use raw frequency response with pink noise....
actually, even cables show differences that this way are actually measurable, and for me as the listener is actually the only thing that i care about... i wont show my tests 'cause it is frustrating to upload photos in this forums

Show us, as it is very implausible what you are claiming.

capacitors used in the crossover as well as the amplifiers main circuits, are also measurable this way... i mean why i would go audiograde in this kind of components if the sound that,

Yeah I wonder too. So far we have seen no proof that so called audiograde components do anything but lighten one’s wallet.

i as the listener won't objectively perceive?? and if there is a subjective change that me as the listener perceive then it can be objectively proven this way

This is a contradiction in itself. So far you haven’t proven anything objectively unless you conduct your listening tests as described in the video above (level matched and “blind” eg ABX). You just shared your subjective impressions, which are unlikely to hold up to an ABX test given the technical change you describe.

for example: going from aluminum to copper in speaker cable, how this affects sound objectively?? copper reduces peaks in the mid-high band of the frequency spectrum compared to aluminum. This is the answer i find doing test this way and since this is scientific it can be proven and also replicated.

Sorry. Utter nonsense. We hear this every other week. So far no one in the last 20 years has come up with an actual proof. So your chance to prove it and rise to Audio fame.

 

[DavyRockstar]

Are you kidding? How is it frustrating exactly?

Please show us, then. That would be much more interesting, here on Audio Science Review, than your anecdotes.

Yet to be proven...

well i'm a bussy man, you know? and you need to organize photos and do a permanent album to share in google photos... well i learned that the hard way but i was very frustrated...

but sure i will show my results in other thread, 'cause is out of this discussion

BTW I'm so impressed, and i really agree with Amirm 100%, you should do test without any filters on them, so i was very amazed that once i change crappy aluminum copper plated cables with real copper cables some peaks in the mid high section were reduce and so the harshness in my CS-A700, which all those vintage speakers are mid range focus speakers tend to be like very harsh, but once i decided to do a proper project manufacturing a "high end" type of cable using gotham cables, Swiss made pure copper and blah blah (but i made the manufacture), was one of the better upgrades for those speakers.... then i tried some other prosound, french cables made with high quality copper, but still in the very afforable side without any fancy manufacture, and guess what?? the frequency response out of the speakers using pink noise was pretty much the same (not exactly the same though)... and i don't want to satanise aluminum, because the PSB P3 that a have actually sounds "more expresive" with aluminum and some will like it, other will say it sounds harsh, but is up to the listener

so i'm not an "snake oil dude" i have my way of testing stuff and i think Amirm should include this test to check for resoults in the actual audio output, and not just the test he does

i'll show my resoults maybe in the weekend so you can see, as well to include the manufacturing of my "pseudo-Lizt" audio cable, sometimes i think i should be a seller, haha! it was a lot of effort, but it was also a nice experience

so, for last

i want my system to sound like Hegel, so i use a custom DSP EQ with +10dB in bass region that does not interfere with the mid range... and while i have the bass (because the Nakamichi is very powerfull so it can handle those EQ graphs without any trouble, and the CS-A700 are capable of an amazing bass), that projection in sound that goes like in reverse, specially in the mid range, is something that i cannot achieve... and still i really enjoy my forward sound is like more dramatic and expresive, but sometimes i would like to have that very refine sound that the Hegel does, is just very likeable

 

[voodooless]

well i'm a bussy man, you know? and you need to organize photos and do a permanent album to share in google photos... well i learned that the hard way but i was very frustrated...

Why make life so complicated? You can literally copy paste an image into the post directly…