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Hegel H95 Review (Streaming Amplifier)

juliangst

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That guy is a goofball with his flowery English detailing all his experiences with the amps and how they all sounded so obviously different. :D There are YouTubers out there that we don't dislike but this guy deserves a special place.
So are there also YouTubers that you like or just YouTubers ‘that you don’t dislike‘? I like the objective measurements and opinions this forum is offering but I just hate that cult following. I think there is more to this hobby than just having the best measuring equipment.
 

Doodski

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that cult following.
I'm not aware that people that think alike are a cult.

I think there is more to this hobby than just having the best measuring equipment.
What else could be attractive other than busting fake personalities, revealing snake oil salespeople and putting down flowery English users?
 

JiiPee

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I think this is a terrible analogy. Exotic sports cars are like any other cars only if you think of a car in terms of mere transportation, but that's hardly the only purpose of a sports car - acceleration, braking performance, speed, handling are completely different. Most are also very luxurious compared to a normal family car.

Also high-end watches are only "scams" if you think about a watch simply as a time-keeping device. But a high-end (and even a moderately priced watch) is basically jewelry today, when we have smartphones with NTP clients thus atomic timekeeping precision. And it makes perfect sense to have a beautiful piece of jewelry if you like that sort of thing, or more, if you appreciate the complexities of a beautifully made mechanical watch.

Based on this type of judgement anything more than a $5 bottle of wine is an absurd expense...
Luxury is by definition something that brings pleasure, but is not necessary. For most consumer items, be they cars, watches, audio equipment, or whatever, the law of diminishing return kicks in at some price level, so that beyond that You are basically paying for the pleasure of owning a luxury item, as the increase in actual practical value gets smaller and smaller.

Most owners of exotic and super-expensive Italian sports cars will never exploit the full performance of their purchase (which is a good thing, as it would be dangerous on public roads), but they still put a high value on specifications like top speed and the 0-60mph acceleration time.

Most owners of Benchmark AHB2 will never notice a difference in sound quality between their audio systems and a system that has 10dB worse SINAD, but still, if they are "objectivists", they put a high value on specifications like 112 dB SINAD.

Please note that I never said there was anything wrong with that - quite the reverse, I explicitly said in my original post that if someone makes a purchase based on SINAD numbers, even if he does not hear the difference in sound quality, that's perfectly fine by me. Somehow, some people still felt offended...
 

BoredErica

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I clicked on a random spot in the video and heard this:

'The concept is musicality. More specifically, the quality of the low frequencies, the straightforwardness of response, and the authenticity of sound. Based on this product we've made this product abundant with musicality.'

xD cool story bro
 

gallantus

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I clicked on a random spot in the video and heard this:

'The concept is musicality. More specifically, the quality of the low frequencies, the straightforwardness of response, and the authenticity of sound. Based on this product we've made this product abundant with musicality.'

xD cool story bro
Yes, the video is indeed gimmicky. But like I said, I found enough evidence online to collaborate that this Taro guy is indeed a legit Yamaha engineer (with patent filings) and that it is consistently said he goes around "tuning" sound of amps for different markets.

To be clear on my stand, I am not saying this tuning is not BS. I am saying, there is enough evidence to explore this. And I am also saying, I have a hard time subscribing to the fact that measurements alone can solely determine ones purchasing decision with no audition.
 

gallantus

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So you expect them to measure significantly different?
The ultimate question I am asking is if they "tune" the sound, will these amps of the same model sound different in a blind test and still be measured the same?

Edit:
According to the hard core objectivists here in ASR, the answer is if they sound different, it must be measured differently. And SINAD and other measurements, regardless of how high they are, makes an audible difference.
 

BoredErica

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From the research I've seen, when Harman tested FR for headphones they tested people from various countries and found no real correlation based on country. Rather, the correlations were based on gender and age.
 

BlackTalon

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The ultimate question I am asking is if they "tune" the sound, will these amps of the same model sound different in a blind test and still be measured the same?

Edit:
According to the hard core objectivists here in ASR, the answer is if they sound different, it must be measured differently. And SINAD and other measurements, regardless of how high they are, makes an audible difference.
Should not be too hard to dig into this deeper. Please send one of each to Amir for testing.
 

gallantus

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Should not be too hard to dig into this deeper. Please send one of each to Amir for testing.
That makes no sense. Amir's point of view is already set, if you can hear it, you can measure it. I am saying can two amps measure the same but sound different, it would require an ABX test in a control environment and Amir doesn't do that (not saying he is not willing to, but I just haven't seen him do it). And why the hell is the onus on me to go buy two amps for testing? Asking the question for discussion purposes does not mean I am liable to fork out the expense to prove or disprove.
 

BDWoody

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The ultimate question I am asking is if they "tune" the sound, will these amps of the same model sound different in a blind test and still be measured the same?

No. If you can hear it, you can measure it. But, just because you can measure it, that doesn't mean it is audible.
 

thewas

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The ultimate question I am asking is if they "tune" the sound, will these amps of the same model sound different in a blind test and still be measured the same?

Edit:
According to the hard core objectivists here in ASR, the answer is if they sound different, it must be measured differently. And SINAD and other measurements, regardless of how high they are, makes an audible difference.
Not even 2 production units of the same amp will measure exactly the same, so the only interesting question is if 2 versions can be clearly discerned in a controlled test (which is usually not the case), which measurement differences lead to that audibility.
 

symphara

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Luxury is by definition something that brings pleasure, but is not necessary. For most consumer items, be they cars, watches, audio equipment, or whatever, the law of diminishing return kicks in at some price level, so that beyond that You are basically paying for the pleasure of owning a luxury item, as the increase in actual practical value gets smaller and smaller.

Most owners of exotic and super-expensive Italian sports cars will never exploit the full performance of their purchase (which is a good thing, as it would be dangerous on public roads), but they still put a high value on specifications like top speed and the 0-60mph acceleration time.

Most owners of Benchmark AHB2 will never notice a difference in sound quality between their audio systems and a system that has 10dB worse SINAD, but still, if they are "objectivists", they put a high value on specifications like 112 dB SINAD.

Please note that I never said there was anything wrong with that - quite the reverse, I explicitly said in my original post that if someone makes a purchase based on SINAD numbers, even if he does not hear the difference in sound quality, that's perfectly fine by me. Somehow, some people still felt offended...
That's fine, but I don't get the comparison to audio gear.

The whole point is that (some) expensive audio gear is a scam because - while it looks pretty - it actually underperforms. Or at best it doesn't outperform something way cheaper. Or in some cases (cables or audiophile routers - it amuses me to even write this) it does nothing.

Therefore if, for example, you were to buy a Porsche Carrera 4S and discover that a Golf GTI is faster, handles better and has better brakes, it would be a valid comparison. Or worse, imagine it's a Toyota Yaris. That would be an scam. However, it's not the case. By far.

Or if you were to buy an IWC watch and discover it's actually flimsy, scratches easily, has something loose inside etc., it would be the same. But these things don't do that, they're really well made, with quality materials, and (subjectively) beautiful. No scam.

I'm not going to comment on whether it's worth paying for luxury on an essentially exponential price curve - this is up to the individual, his or her preference, priorities and buying power.

But the audio gear comparison just doesn't hold.

Otherwise I agree with you, clearly SINAD has diminishing returns and I don't think anyone says otherwise. There's some bickering around the point at which it doesn't matter anymore.

Now this Hegel amp I think is rather poor as measured. I would stay away from it.

And I wish that @amirm would test some Primare stuff.
 

gallantus

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Not even 2 production units of the same amp will measure exactly the same, so the only interesting question is if 2 versions can be clearly discerned in a controlled test (which is usually not the case), which measurement differences lead to that audibility.
If I was as rich as @amirm , I would commission and administer a blind ABX test followed by measurements of such regionally "tuned" amps as shown in this video. I would fly you and few others in to be test subjects and I will put you in a 5 star hotel and feed you at a michellin restaurant :D
 

thewas

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If I was as rich as @amirm , I would commission and administer a blind ABX test followed by measurements of such regionally "tuned" amps as shown in this video. I would fly you and few others in to be test subjects and I will put you in a 5 star hotel and feed you at a michellin restaurant :D
Even if I was rich I would do first the measurements and if the differences are insignificantly small I would save the money, time and effort of all. :p
 

DSJR

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Regarding Yamaha, the UK market for such amps is so small and the fact Yamaha don't sell into 'higher end' UK dealers as far as I know, I doubt they sell enough of their higher end amps to remotely consider changing a batch or two purely for us here. I believe Germany is the European centre for higher end audio.

Audio gear like this being part of a 'hobby?' Maybe for me it was once, but today I just regard it as a tool to reproduce music and 'little more to be hones as so much now is commoditised and speakers largely dependant on the room they're in and positioning within it.
 
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BlackTalon

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That makes no sense. Amir's point of view is already set, if you can hear it, you can measure it. I am saying can two amps measure the same but sound different, it would require an ABX test in a control environment and Amir doesn't do that (not saying he is not willing to, but I just haven't seen him do it). And why the hell is the onus on me to go buy two amps for testing? Asking the question for discussion purposes does not mean I am liable to fork out the expense to prove or disprove.
all there is to go by are charts posted by Yamaha. You are limited to the info they have chosen to present.
 

gallantus

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Here is another one. Now, I know this is PS Audio (that actually sells a $20k AQ cable on their website, which btw, costs more than any of their products) and this is McGowan, so take it as a grain of salt. But watch from 8:20 to 8:45. When McGowan tells Bob he needs a little bit more of this and that. I wonder what in the world does Bob do, what in the world does Bob change? I mean, Bob had to physically change something right? Otherwise, Bob can get fired by McGowan for BSing him. So what in the f'in world did Bob changed? Just like in the Yamaha video, what in the f'in world did Taro Morii changed? I really want to know, am I missing out on something here? Or is this all truly truly marketing BS and trickery? I'm all ears, I want to know the truth with evidence dammit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2zPCnnZfGQ
 

gallantus

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No. If you can hear it, you can measure it. But, just because you can measure it, that doesn't mean it is audible.
Just like the ASR folks here who needs scientific evidence. I would like scientific evidence that two amps measuring the same will not be discernable by a blind ABX test.

I am not being a jerk nor trying to stir things up. All I am saying is that, I did some research on this Yamaha video and this Taro Morii guy is a legit Yamaha engineer (at least based on my internet detective skills, he has patents filed under him and he is consistently described as the engineer who led an engineering team) and he goes around "tuning" the sound of amps which all measures the same based on the user manual that I've seen (granted that the user manual only have selected measurements). So is Taro Morii playing the marketing game or is Taro Morii really doing honest to God sound tuning? If he is, do they sound different but measure the same?

And to be clear again, I believe in measurements, I look at measurements when available on every gear I buy. I brought the Topping D90SE because it measures so good. But I brought it from a vendor with a 30 day free return, and I listened to it and compared it to other DACs before deciding to keep it, I don't just buy based on the measurements alone. And yes, I have brought gear that measures well and have returned in the past because I didn't like how it sounded.
 
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