Hegel H95 Review (Streaming Amplifier)

[diddley]

I think it comes back to this: Does it matter if amp A has 10dB better measured THD+N than amp B, if You can't hear the difference? To some hardcore objectivists, it apparently matters, and that's ok. To each his own.

Similarily, to some subjectivists it does matter that the amp B has been declared better by a self-proclaimed HiFi Guru, even if there is no tangible evidence supporting the claim. No problem. May he live long and prosper.

As long as the hifi guru is not knowingly lying and cheating.(youtubers, whathifi etc.)

 

[JiiPee]

As long as the hifi guru is not knowingly lying and cheating.(youtubers, whathifi etc.)

Cheating is of course ethically wrong, but then again, if in my example neither the objectivist, nor the subjectivist is able to make a distinction between A and B on a properly arranged blind test, but both are happy about their purchases for their own reasons, I guess there is no big harm done in the end.

Isn't most image-based marketing, celebrity endorsements etc... more or less kind of cheating - claiming that a product has special nontangible qualities, even if it does not.

 

[BoredErica]

I think it comes back to this: Does it matter if amp A has 10dB better measured THD+N than amp B, if You can't hear the difference? To some hardcore objectivists, it apparently matters, and that's ok. To each his own.

Similarily, to some subjectivists it does matter that the amp B has been declared better by a self-proclaimed HiFi Guru, even if there is no tangible evidence supporting the claim. No problem. May he live long and prosper.

In your first example, the hardcore objectivists will tell you there probably won't be a difference. In your second example, you will almost never find a self proclaimed hifi guru on the internet say two amps sound the same to their ears. In the first example people are basing their decisions on reality. On the second, people almost always basing it on falsehoods born of things like placebo and lack of understanding of how audio electronics work. One person is well informed with facts and made a decision based on preference. Another is misled.

If you buy an amp thinking it sounds better better when it actually doesn't, you're not getting what you thought you were getting. If you bought an amp knowing it doesn't sound better but wanted to buy it anyways (for whatever reason, could be things like features or aesthetics) that's just a statement of preference. Unless you're going to tell me a person prefers to be misled or something even crazier like that.

You're really hardcore equivocating in your later post as well. Tons of people are having their pocketbooks drained based on a stupid audio cult where they think buying all kinds of overpriced and poorly engineering crap will make things sound better. That's basically a scam. BS audio beliefs have a real impact on others. The entire subjectivist position is built on a foundation of lies and ignorance.

 

[diddley]

Isn't most image-based marketing, celebrity endorsements etc... more or less kind of cheating - claiming that a product has special nontangible qualities, even if it does not.

That is what making it a wrong thing to do. imho.

 

[JiiPee]

In your first example, the hardcore objectivists will tell you there probably won't be a difference. In your second example, you will almost never find a self proclaimed hifi guru on the internet say two amps sound the same to their ears. In the first example people are basing their decisions on reality. On the second, people almost always basing it on falsehoods born of things like placebo and lack of understanding of how audio electronics work. One person is well informed with facts and made a decision based on preference. Another is misled.

If you buy an amp thinking it sounds better better when it actually doesn't, you're not getting what you thought you were getting. If you bought an amp knowing it doesn't sound better but wanted to buy it anyways (for whatever reason, could be things like features or aesthetics) that's just a statement of preference. Unless you're going to tell me a person prefers to be misled or something even crazier like that.

You're really hardcore equivocating in your later post as well. Tons of people are having their pocketbooks drained based on a stupid audio cult where they think buying all kinds of overpriced and poorly engineering crap will make things sound better. That's basically a scam. BS audio beliefs have a real impact on others. The entire subjectivist position is built on a foundation of lies and ignorance.

There are many self-proclaimed objectivists who are adamant, that they can hear the difference caused by a small measured improvement in SINAD, when they have absolutely no proof that they can actually do that. They are no more rational than the subjectivists, even though they rather arrogantly think that they are.

The "audio cult" is no different to any other interest in luxury items be they exotic sport cars, high-end watches etc... Yep, they can be described to be kind scams, where people are lured to pay high prices with the promise of high prestige among peer group (like among memebers of ASR community), or product qualities that are in practice more or less illusory.

 

[gallantus]

Totally OT but what issues did you have with the D70? I've had no issues w/ it, but can't say the same w/ the E30 (pops w/ rate change).

The BT design. The way how it was locked in by my neighbor.

 

[BoredErica]

There are many self-proclaimed objectivists who are adamant, that they can hear the difference caused by a small measured improvement in SINAD, when they have absolutely no proof that they can actually do that. They are no more rational than the subjectivists, even though they rather arrogantly think that they are.

If they're making dumb claims, I agree they are no more rational than the subjectivists. That has nothing to do with what I was talking about and just serves to distract from my original claim. You're just vaguely lashing out at objectivists at this point because you don't like them. Let's not pretend the ratio of crazy objectivists at all mirrors that of the subjectivists who basically all believe in BS.

The "audio cult" is no different to any other interest in luxury items be they exotic sport cars, high-end watches etc...

This is a bad analogy. I can't say I'm into exotic sports cars or high end watches but I'll give it one final stab at it. For exotic sports cars, a lot of the appeal is from the looks and the noise it makes when it drives and how fast it can go. These preferences are based on reality. A sports car can really actually go faster than my dinky little car. Even when somebody says 'the ride is smoother, that's generally based on reality because a better suspension can lead to a smoother ride.

The vast majority of what audiophiles claim on the other hand are just figments of their imagination that can't possibly be true, and the form gigantic networks of misunderstandings of reality.

Yep, they can be described to be kind scams, where people are lured to pay high prices with the promise of high prestige among peer group

That's only remotely analogous if interest in luxury watches and sports cars is ONLY based on one's need to have prestige among a peer group which you have absolutely not demonstrated. Also let's not pretend owning an expensive watch or car doesn't actually give you prestige among a peer group. And even if it doesn't, that's doesn't make audio not a scam, it just makes both audio and chasing clout a scam. Still doesn't change the fact that subjectivist audio circles are just orgies of anti-science and placebo and you're trying to defend them.

(like among memebers of ASR community),

This is just a dumb jab at ASR because you don't agree with ASR. You're once again just distracting from the original claim I made like you did with the first point in your post. I don't understand why subjectivists who dislike ASR feel the need to constantly come to ASR to tell them how much they suck when the large majority of spaces online have subjectivist leanings.

Okay I've dedicated over 10 minutes of thought to this conversation which is more than I'm willing to budget. You can believe whatever you want, you'll never change your opinion anyways.

 

[ahofer]

Speaking of audio cults, has anyone looked at this thread, the linked article, and the miserable implication at the top?

There is a particular board on a specific forum that was hidden from the outside world because of how horrible it was. Where personal politics and racism was the norm 24-7 and one member even committed suicide after months of abuse. We watched him fight with other members on a daily basis and get a lot of heat back. He was fine most of the time when dealing with him on a individual basis but then he descended into some really horrible commentaries about race and certain countries and he went down the rabbit hole into some dark places.

Websites like ASR hold zero interest for me because a lot of the users are just there to be “right” and make others feel very small because their views don’t align with certain points of view.

At Audiogon! imagine anyone on that forum being upset that ASR makes them “feel small”. Land of Millercarbon, Ted Denney and the liquid cable guys, constantly telling everyone else their ears aren’t golden enough.

I dropped in a comment about nutpicking and inward apologetics as hazards of online communities. (Nutpicking is what I just did by calling out those three clowns as representative of a much larger forum)

 

[BoredErica]

Speaking of audio cults, has anyone looked at this thread, the linked article, and the miserable implication at the top?



At Audiogon! imagine anyone on that forum being upset that ASR makes them “feel small”. Land of Millercarbon, Ted Denney and the liquid cable guys, constantly telling everyone else their ears aren’t golden enough.

I dropped in a comment about nutpicking and inward apologetics as hazards of online communities. (Nutpicking is what I just did by calling out those three clowns as representative of a much larger forum)

Nutpicking... Now that's a heck of a term LOL

 

[Rottmannash]

The BT design. The way how it was locked in by my neighbor.

Oh. My D70 doesn't have BT.

 

[gallantus]

Oh. My D70 doesn't have BT.

Yeah, the D70 can be ordered with or without BT, the D70S has BT default. I almost never use the BT on the D70, but I paid for it and therefore it needs to work as it should (had I got the BT option for free and it didn't work, so be it). I was testing the BT and I encountered the issue, therefore I returned it and I got the LKS MH-DA004 instead.

I recently also just got the D90SE, which also comes with BT default. The BT on the D90SE works with no issues thus far.

Also, the LKS sounds so much better than both the D70 and the D90SE (to my ears at least or one can argue to the confirmation bias in my head), despite the D90SE being a better measuring DAC (the D90SE sounds terrific BTW, hence I kept it). So to me, measurement is great and from my perspective it's a must, but on the same token, I have a hard time letting measurements alone be the end all and be all. Again, that is just me personally.

 

[BDWoody]

I have a hard time letting measurements alone be the end all and be all. Again, that is just me personally.

Asking with no snark...

Have you ever tried these comparisons with basic controls (unsighted and level matched)?

I had to hear it for myself too...

It's easier to let go, when/if you can hear it for yourself, or rather NOT hear it in my case.

 

[gallantus]

Asking with no snark...

Have you ever tried these comparisons with basic controls (unsighted and level matched)?

I had to hear it for myself too...

It's easier to let go, when/if you can hear it for yourself, or rather NOT hear it in my case.

Yes, I have tried comparisons with basic controls. Differences are nuance. Some tracks, can't decipher the difference, some tracks yes.

Case in point, the Yggy had more bass presence than my LKS and it had better 3D soundstage and everything else I didn't like about it, and not worth how much it is being sold for. Not to mentioning knowing how bad it measures, it bothers me lol. 5/5 times correct identification, administered by my wife. But I can't promise you that this test is 100% controlled and kosher, I did the best I can given what I had.

 

[gallantus]

Asking with no snark...

Have you ever tried these comparisons with basic controls (unsighted and level matched)?

I had to hear it for myself too...

It's easier to let go, when/if you can hear it for yourself, or rather NOT hear it in my case.

A while back, I found this image on the internet. I also found a video of a Yamaha engineer tuning an amp for the UK market. Did a little research, turns out Europeans does not share the same taste in sound as North Americans. North Americans seems to have a cultural preference for "warm" sound (what ever the hell "warm" means). And that is not to the taste of Europeans, so Yamaha "tune" there amps for the European market.

Assuming this is true, 1) I wonder what the heck are they tuning to tune the sound 2) can measurements alone be enough to determine if one likes the amp or not? If an amp is "tuned" and the measurements specs are the same for all regions, then is measurements alone enough to determine ahead of time if one will like the sound or not without an audition?

I don't know, I don't have the answers, but I want to ask the question and open this up for discussion.


EDIT: Here is the video of the amp tuning done by Yamaha
I've checked the user manual for the US and UK model of the A-S1100, same exact identical specs. But yet, the UK version has been "tuned" and assuming it sounds different after such turning. So why is such difference in sound not reflected on the specs? Does spec alone measure the "sound signature?" Can I trust ASR's recommendation that, one does not need to audition an amp, they can just buy it by looking at the measurements and specs? (Not an insult, a honest question)

Now I show this video and picture to a diehard pure objectivist in the past (The same type who said to me, there is absolutely no need to audition any amps, all you need to do is look at the measurements, there is no such thing as "sound signature."), he simply dismissed the picture and video as marketing gimmick.

MORE EDIT: I did a little research on this guy, Taro Morii, who was doing the tuning on this video. I found this, patent filings, so clearly, he is not a marketing guy, he's a legit engineer at Yamaha.

I also attached the user manual of the US and UK version of the Yamaha A-S1100, pretty much same exact measurements and spec, but yet, the UK version was "tuned." So are they concluding that measurements and spec can't measure everything? What the hell did they "tuned" to change the sound without changing the specs and possibly measurements exacty???

Tagging @amirm to comment.

 

[symphara]

The "audio cult" is no different to any other interest in luxury items be they exotic sport cars, high-end watches etc... Yep, they can be described to be kind scams, where people are lured to pay high prices with the promise of high prestige among peer group (like among memebers of ASR community), or product qualities that are in practice more or less illusory.

I think this is a terrible analogy. Exotic sports cars are like any other cars only if you think of a car in terms of mere transportation, but that's hardly the only purpose of a sports car - acceleration, braking performance, speed, handling are completely different. Most are also very luxurious compared to a normal family car.

Also high-end watches are only "scams" if you think about a watch simply as a time-keeping device. But a high-end (and even a moderately priced watch) is basically jewelry today, when we have smartphones with NTP clients thus atomic timekeeping precision. And it makes perfect sense to have a beautiful piece of jewelry if you like that sort of thing, or more, if you appreciate the complexities of a beautifully made mechanical watch.

Based on this type of judgement anything more than a $5 bottle of wine is an absurd expense...

 

[PierreV]

A while back, I found this image on the internet. I also found a video of a Yamaha engineer tuning an amp for the UK market.

Marantz also has "UK tuned" editions. I imagine that, if one wanted to tune an amplifier to a certain house or country sound, this should be measurable in terms of harmonic distortion. It would be fun to test a UK-tuned and non-tuned version side-by-side.

Until this happens, I like to think of those versions as "What Hi-Fi?" versions. At the very least, it always gives a free paragraph to "What Hi-Fi?" writers and should appeal to those Brits who think of themselves as a very special model of homo sapiens.

 

[thewas]

Marantz also has "UK tuned" editions. I imagine that, if one wanted to tune an amplifier to a certain house or country sound, this should be measurable in terms of harmonic distortion. It would be fun to test a UK-tuned and non-tuned version side-by-side.

Yes, I would bet that there won't be found any significant measurable and in a blindtest audible differences.

 

[ahofer]

There are many self-proclaimed objectivists who are adamant, that they can hear the difference caused by a small measured improvement in SINAD,

It would be hard to fit my definition of ‘objectivist’ while making this claim. But I’ve never seen anyone make that claim and even describe themselves as an objectivist. I don’t know a self-described ‘objectivist’ who doesn’t also aver that measuring equipment is far more sensitive to noise and distortion than the human ear.

I have seen a lot of likely objectivists here Jonesing for better engineering while acknowledging it may not be audible, or suggesting that higher noise through the entire audio chain might compound and become audible.

 

[juliangst]

This guy is a goof.

Are there any YouTubers this forum is not hating on? Just accept that there are different opinions and not everyone cares as much about measurements as we do.

 

[Doodski]

Are there any YouTubers this forum is not hating on? Just accept that there are different opinions and not everyone cares as much about measurements as we do.

That guy is a goofball with his flowery English detailing all his experiences with the amps and how they all sounded so obviously different. There are YouTubers out there that we don't dislike but this guy deserves a special place.