HEDD Type 20 - studio monitor

[andreasmaaan]

PS: My intention is not to open a pointless discussion as you said, nor to argue with anybody, but it seems we both are talking about different things. I am interested in trying them out, as well as a lot of other speakers, but that does not have anything to do with what can be seen on those measurements.

Yeh, let's not get the thread bogged down in this The measurements are there for everyone to see.

I will try to reply to your specific questions though, because I think these are interesting topics.

If the second measurement was taken outside an anechoic chamber, how would you compare these two graphs anyway. being measured in completely different rooms?

A flat-measuring speaker will tend to have a downward-tilting response when measured in-room, because (a) direct-raditing monopoles (like this speaker) will tend to be more directional at high frequencies than at low frequencies and (b) the room will tend to me more absorptive at high frequencies than at low frequencies.

Therefore, if these HEDD speakers really were measured in-room and that is the response that was obtained, it suggests that they have an even more extreme rise in the high-frequencies anechoically, even when the HF control is at the minimum setting.

Ofc, being measured in room (if that is the case), the frequency response will come out less smooth than if measured anechoically. But it wasn't the smoothness that we were discussing; it was the flatness. And these measurements show that, at the very least, these speakers have an upward-tilted response in the high frequencies.

How many people can say they work in a studio environment with a FR which is +-3,5dB without additional room correction?

This kind of relates to my previous point again. IMO, nobody should work in a studio environment in which the FR is +/-3.5dB, with or without room correction, as this would imply a speaker with a non-flat (shelved up in the high frequencies) anechoic response.

I realise there are two schools of thought on this topic, though I believe the science is on my side here.

 

[Tj99]

Yeh, let's not get the thread bogged down in this The measurements are there for everyone to see.


A flat-measuring speaker will tend to have a downward-tilting response when measured in-room, because (a) direct-raditing monopoles (like this speaker) will tend to be more directional at high frequencies than at low frequencies and (b) the room will tend to me more absorptive at high frequencies than at low frequencies.

Therefore, if these HEDD speakers really were measured in-room and that is the response that was obtained, it suggests that they have an even more extreme rise in the high-frequencies anechoically, even when the HF control is at the minimum setting.

Ofc, being measured in room (if that is the case), the frequency response will come out less smooth than if measured anechoically. But it wasn't the smoothness that we were discussing; it was the flatness. And these measurements show that, at the very least, these speakers have an upward-tilted response in the high frequencies.

I realise there are two schools of thought on this topic, though I believe the science is on my side here.

Many thanks for the insight!
So I was talking about the smoothness, as in my book an overall deviation of -+3,5db seems pretty good in a real world scenario.
And we don't know if they used their corrective "Lineariser DSP plugin" when measuring (most probably not) and in which mode they used it.
But yeah technically you're right about the HF lift, but doesn't it matter more how the speakers measure in a real room instead?

When the MK2 is gonna be ready to ship I might try a pair, and post some measurements here, so we have something to compare.

 

[andreasmaaan]

When the MK2 is gonna be ready to ship I might try a pair, and post some measurements here, so we have something to compare.

That would be great (-:

But yeah technically you're right about the HF lift, but doesn't it matter more how the speakers measure in a real room instead?

To oversimplify only slightly, our perception of a speaker's tonality at mid/high frequencies tends to be be primarily based on the anechoic response of the loudspeaker (i.e. the direct sound we receive from the speaker). This is because, at these short wavelengths, our brain subconsciously separates reflections from direct sound when building its picture of the speaker's tonal balance (and even more so when it comes to localisation, but that's another topic).

At lower frequencies, on the other hand, where wavelengths are much longer (comparable in length to the dimensions of the room in which we're listening) our ability to subconsciously separate the sound coming from the speakers from the soundfield in the room begins to break down. At these frequencies, perceived tonal balance tends to be more correlated with the in-room steady-state response (i.e. the combination of direct and reflected sound) rather than the speaker's direct sound.

For these reasons, a neutral-sounding loudspeaker will tend to have a flat anechoic response (and then additionally the room needs to be taken care of to ensure tonal neutrality in the low frequencies).

 

[mononoaware]

I am interested this speaker, both Type 20 & Type 20 MK2 (built-in Linearizer).

VS Neumann KH310 VS Genelec 8351B.

 

[allan]

I am interested this speaker, both Type 20 & Type 20 MK2 (built-in Linearizer).

VS Neumann KH310 VS Genelec 8351B.

same here, both have such great reviews. Is there one you're leaning towards?

 

[mononoaware]

same here, both have such great reviews. Is there one you're leaning towards?

I would like to stay objective.

In a subjective world I am leaning towards the original HEDD Type 20 with a good discount.

 

[allan]

I would like to stay objective.

In a subjective world I am leaning towards the original HEDD Type 20 with a good discount.

Haha maybe you're looking at the same listing as I am! Do let me know what you end up with.

 

[Neto Rare]

Haha maybe you're looking at the same listing as I am! Do let me know what you end up with.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...k2-3-way-active-studio-monitor-with-dsp-pair/

 

[Zvu]

HEDD Type 30mk2 measured by Anselm Goertz

https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/hedd-type-30-mk2-3-wege-midfield-monitor-im-test/

 

[617]

HEDD Type 30mk2 measured by Anselm Goertz

https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/hedd-type-30-mk2-3-wege-midfield-monitor-im-test/

Looks reasonable enough. I don't really understand why the horizontal format is so popular though.

 

[617]

Wait a minute, HEDD seriously expects you to use a vst to correct the response?

 

[Zvu]

As i uderstand it, they've used their Plugin in mk1 to correct the curve. Now they use dsp to do the same.

I understand just a little bit of German and google translate can not always be trusted 100%.

 

[mononoaware]

Wait a minute, HEDD seriously expects you to use a vst to correct the response?

The Type 30 MK2 has the "Linearizer" built into the monitor. MK1 required you to run software to achieve this.

 

[Mystroe]

I thought I'd chip in on this thread. I'm not up on the science of speakers, but have worked with a few and listened to a few. I have the HEDD Type 20s Mk2. Overall very happy with them. But I suspect that like other keen speaker lovers, monogamy is a long term quest.

Purely subjective comments, that hopefully will be helpful. I had been using Dynaudio for a while, BM5 passive driven, then BM5As. The HEDDs are a obviously a big leap up from these. I then did a stint on various Linn Isobariks, actively driven, great speakers but a bit too big for me. So it didn't make much sense when I picked up some ATC SCM 100a's.. Extremely clear speakers, straight to the point as in no manners or diplomacy! Bass extension is nice and low, also effortless. I found the ATCs were useful towards the end of a music project for fine tuning etc. Sadly for every day listening, they completely trashed some of my favourite songs. Have to agree with the usual comments about the Mid Range.

The HEDDS on the other hand I find a better all rounder. I also bought a Sub 08 (HEDD) but rarely used it as I found the HEDD TYPE 20 bass ample.

Incidentally I popped into Funky Junk recently and listened to some ATC SCM25a's. Again found the sound a bit too uncompromising for me.

Some more factual stuff. The Hedd Type 20s have got a lot of controls on the back. Good points here in terms of tweaking your sound. However a big step forward would be to have these controls remotely accessible. As pointed out earlier in the thread, the Lineariser is now on board, activated at the back of the monitors. I believe it introduces some latency. One thing I find a bit irritating is the auto standby. It's great to save on power, but it takes quite a few seconds for the speakers to 'wake up' again. Another personal experience is that in closed port mode, volume is severely limited. That said though I find the open port bass response more than satisfactory. One more negative comment - and this covers a few speakers. I don't really understand the science of having a digital input on monitors? If you've shelled out for a decent DAC why use the speaker's DAC?

In summary though despite a few gripes, and having gone few quite a few pairs of monitors and speakers over the years, I haven't got any plans to 'upgrade'. Perhaps the future lies in Electrostatics?

On a laid back note for speaker enjoyment, I recommend this reggae jazz fusion track: Look No Further from Soul Revivers & Ms Maurice. Also! Rimsky, recorded by the Borusan Istanbul Philharmonic Orchestra.

 

[617]

I thought I'd chip in on this thread. I'm not up on the science of speakers, but have worked with a few and listened to a few. I have the HEDD Type 20s Mk2. Overall very happy with them. But I suspect that like other keen speaker lovers, monogamy is a long term quest.

Purely subjective comments, that hopefully will be helpful. I had been using Dynaudio for a while, BM5 passive driven, then BM5As. The HEDDs are a obviously a big leap up from these. I then did a stint on various Linn Isobariks, actively driven, great speakers but a bit too big for me. So it didn't make much sense when I picked up some ATC SCM 100a's.. Extremely clear speakers, straight to the point as in no manners or diplomacy! Bass extension is nice and low, also effortless. I found the ATCs were useful towards the end of a music project for fine tuning etc. Sadly for every day listening, they completely trashed some of my favourite songs. Have to agree with the usual comments about the Mid Range.

The HEDDS on the other hand I find a better all rounder. I also bought a Sub 08 (HEDD) but rarely used it as I found the HEDD TYPE 20 bass ample.

Incidentally I popped into Funky Junk recently and listened to some ATC SCM25a's. Again found the sound a bit too uncompromising for me.

Some more factual stuff. The Hedd Type 20s have got a lot of controls on the back. Good points here in terms of tweaking your sound. However a big step forward would be to have these controls remotely accessible. As pointed out earlier in the thread, the Lineariser is now on board, activated at the back of the monitors. I believe it introduces some latency. One thing I find a bit irritating is the auto standby. It's great to save on power, but it takes quite a few seconds for the speakers to 'wake up' again. Another personal experience is that in closed port mode, volume is severely limited. That said though I find the open port bass response more than satisfactory. One more negative comment - and this covers a few speakers. I don't really understand the science of having a digital input on monitors? If you've shelled out for a decent DAC why use the speaker's DAC?

In summary though despite a few gripes, and having gone few quite a few pairs of monitors and speakers over the years, I haven't got any plans to 'upgrade'. Perhaps the future lies in Electrostatics?

On a laid back note for speaker enjoyment, I recommend this reggae jazz fusion track: Look No Further from Soul Revivers & Ms Maurice. Also! Rimsky, recorded by the Borusan Istanbul Philharmonic Orchestra.

The reason why these and most other modern monitors have digital inputs is because they implement DSP filtering to the inputs. You can either run the signal through two DACs or one, but the one in the speaker cannot be bypassed.

The real question is, if you've shelled out for decent active speakers, why buy a standalone dac? Of course there are good reasons (remote control, streaming, headphone amp).

Thanks for your impressions of the hedd 20, I look forward to seeing more measurements from this product line.

 

[Mystroe]

The real question is, if you've shelled out for decent active speakers, why buy a standalone dac?

Most professional users will use some form of DAC, usually an audio interface. Working on that basis if you have a source with a 128 core processor with minimal latency - you may prefer an analogue input on your monitor. ATC as an example don't sport digital inputs on their professional monitors.