Hedd type 20 monitors

[Purité Audio]

Keith

 

[Music1969]

Darko had a great interview with the main man ( founder of Adam Audio).

Really interesting discussion about speaker measurements and dynamics and how to measure.

Link:

Klaus Heinz talks HEDD Audio Tower Mains

 

[Music1969]

Keith

I found the ending a bit strange. Something about not much difference in sonic qualities between pro speakers and Hi-Fi/home speakers... but that comment was right after he'd just spent time describing the differences?

 

[pozz]

I found the ending a bit strange. Something about not much difference in sonic qualities between pro speakers and Hi-Fi/home speakers... but that comment was right after he'd just spent time describing the differences?

I think he was addressing the divide between industries, the idea that pro monitors can't be listened to for pleasure because they are made different in some unfathomable way.

It would be really interesting if HEDD breaks into the audiophile/home market more deeply than it has into the pro scene. I know they've displayed their monitors at hifi shows as well as pro ones, and the response has been positive.

It happened with KRK.

 

[Music1969]

I think he was addressing the divide between industries, the idea that pro monitors can't be listened to for pleasure because they are made different in some unfathomable way.

It would be really interesting if HEDD breaks into the audiophile/home market more deeply than it has into the pro scene. I know they've displayed their monitors at hifi shows as well as pro ones, and the response has been positive.

It happened with KRK.

I see the Adam S2V's there in your signature. NOICE!

 

[pozz]

I see the Adam S2V's there in your signature. NOICE!

They image really well, but the brightness and attendant fatigue took me forever to tune and fix.

 

[Music1969]

They image really well, but the brightness and attendant fatigue took me forever to tune and fix.

How? Digital EQ?

 

[pozz]

How? Digital EQ?

The ADAM S-line has DSP built into the monitors. You can edit high/low shelf, Q and center frequency either through the module in the speaker or by connecting through USB and downloading the software.

https://www.adam-audio.com/en/technology/high-performance-dsp-module/
https://www.adam-audio.com/en/s-series/s-control/

 

[Purité Audio]

Hedd ‘main towers’ are on their way!
Keith

 

[Ron Texas]

Hedd ‘main towers’ are on their way!
Keith

They look expensive.

 

[Purité Audio]

£16k for the two box. £23k for the three .
Keith

 

[Ron Texas]

£16k for the two box. £23k for the three .
Keith

Not cheap, but but sort of in the Kii III, M2 range.

 

[Purité Audio]

Nigel Palmer ( Lowland Mastering )went along to the Hedd Main towers U.K. launch.
https://www.audiomediainternational.com/2019/04/01/review-hedd-tower-mains/

Keith

 

[Hephaestus]

Type 05 measures nicely for the price. Consider also that they are made in Germany when thinking about the price:

http://nuke.nonsoloaudiofili.com/HEDDType05SeriesONENearfieldStudioMonitor/tabid/504/Default.aspx

 

[pozz]

Sound & Recording magazine in Germany measured the HEDD Type 30 (page 52 of the special issue—very much worth the cost to download):

 

[andrew]

Sound & Recording magazine in Germany measured the HEDD Type 30 (page 52 of the special issue—very much worth the cost to download):
View attachment 27271

What is, if any, the conclusion from these measurements?

 

[pozz]

Somewhat lukewarm. The FR isn't exactly flat, there are at least two notable cabinet resonances, bass decay time is fairly long (not unexpected), phase response shows a few anomalies, and the horizontal/vertical directivity are nothing special (also not unexpected given the cabinet design).

Not to say the monitor is bad, but it is expensive given what it delivers for the price, which is $4k USD per unit. The Type 20 in Darko's video is half that at $2k.

 

[beefkabob]

Somewhat lukewarm. The FR isn't exactly flat, there are at least two notable cabinet resonances, bass decay time is fairly long (not unexpected), phase response shows a few anomalies, and the horizontal/vertical directivity are nothing special (also not unexpected given the cabinet design).

Not to say the monitor is bad, but it is expensive given what it delivers for the price, which is $4k USD per unit. The Type 20 in Darko's video is half that at $2k.

How competitive do they become at $5500 for the pair?

 

[KSTR]

Retail prices seldom correlate with engineering value. In that regard Type30 is overpriced vs Type20 (or Type20 underpriced vs Type30), relatively speaking. Type30 price was seemingly choosen to match competitors prices for similar models (Neumann KH420 and ADAM S3H). In absolute terms, Type20 gives you more for the money, for sure.

BTW, there is an error in the conclusion on xover topology in that S&R article. The tweeter XO is 6th order (LR6) whereas the midrange XO is 2nd order, effectivly. Actually it is "2.5th" order, being a hybrid between LR2 and Bu3 (which I coined "LB2.5"), with a constant 60° phase offset, yielding a -4.5dB down point at XO (whereas LR2 would yield -6dB/0° and Bu3 would yield -3dB/90°). S&R would have noticed this if they had modelled the 4th + 4th orders they assumed, though the overall effect on total phase isn't that prominent. They didn't and just used educated guessing which happened to be wrong in this case.

As for the frequency response, the deviation from flat that you see is an intentional design choice. The FR has been dialed in to be relatively flat when integrated accross about a +-40° horizontal and +-20° vertical listening field, with some weighting. That is, cabinet edge / port / woofer rim diffraction, as well as general baffle step, has not been EQ'd out fully, brute-force style, to get a maximally flat 0° on-axis anechoic response -- which is what especially Neumann does as per their in-house design philosophy. Additionally, there is a bit of "HEDD house-curve" on top which slightly boosts the extreme frequency ends.
For this reason the directivity plots also look worse than they are in reality because those again are brute-force normalized to 0° on-axis response. If they were normalized to the integrated response they would look a bit better.

 

[pozz]

Retail prices seldom correlate with engineering value. In that regard Type30 is overpriced vs Type20 (or Type20 underpriced vs Type30), relatively speaking. Type30 price was seemingly choosen to match competitors prices for similar models (Neumann KH420 and ADAM S3H). In absolute terms, Type20 gives you more for the money, for sure.

BTW, there is an error in the conclusion on xover topology in that S&R article. The tweeter XO is 6th order (LR6) whereas the midrange XO is 2nd order, effectivly. Actually it is "2.5th" order, being a hybrid between LR2 and Bu3 (which I coined "LB2.5"), with a constant 60° phase offset, yielding a -4.5dB down point at XO (whereas LR2 would yield -6dB/0° and Bu3 would yield -3dB/90°). S&R would have noticed this if they had modelled the 4th + 4th orders they assumed, though the overall effect on total phase isn't that prominent. They didn't and just used educated guessing which happened to be wrong in this case.

As for the frequency response, the deviation from flat that you see is an intentional design choice. The FR has been dialed in to be relatively flat when integrated accross about a +-40° horizontal and +-20° vertical listening field, with some weighting. That is, cabinet edge / port / woofer rim diffraction, as well as general baffle step, has not been EQ'd out fully, brute-force style, to get a maximally flat 0° on-axis anechoic response -- which is what especially Neumann does as per their in-house design philosophy. Additionally, there is a bit of "HEDD house-curve" on top which slightly boosts the extreme frequency ends.
For this reason the directivity plots also look worse than they are in reality because those again are brute-force normalized to 0° on-axis response. If they were normalized to the integrated response they would look a bit better.

Thanks. I'm really glad to get this level of explanation.