HEDD Type 20 MK2 Monitor Review

[dfuller]

Sure, I added it to the review:

Exactly what I anticipated - distortion goes up because there's increased excursion.

 

[RobL]

Do you have a link to a study correlating IMD to perception? I'm not aware of one.

A couple of papers I’m aware of are here and here. By E. Cerwinski (of Cerwin Vega) et. al.
They attempt to relate measured IMD with perception.

 

[MDNSC]

@amirm , Nice review!
I've just got a small question here but not sure if that will affact the result.

On HEDD's TYPE20 MK2 Page there is an XLR Setup guide which shows that it's recommended to put the VOL knob to the max.

But we see here you are putting it at -6dB, not sure that's the knob position you've done with the test or not.

Just curious, will the gain stage between the DAC (output source) and the amp (Not sure the knob is digital volume control after AD or before AD or for amps) affact the SPL and distortion measurement?

Cheers
Damien

 

[ozonepaul]

I was a Hedd type 20mk2 user.
The performance itself wasn't bad, but actually this speaker's noise level is crazy, probably in a quieter environment and a sound-absorbing studio, you can't stand the noise flying towards your ears.

As I said earlier, I only tested the Type 20 mkI so I can not comment on the mkII. BUT: I tested the mkI in my own studio, side by side with my KH310. It's noise floor wasn't louder than the KH310s. I mix at a 165cm listening distance from the speakers, there was nothing audible at that distance. While positioning, I listened to it with my ears only a few cm away from the drivers and still, the noise floor of the Type 20 MkI wasn't higher than the KH310. There are well loved studio monitors at 3x the price of the HEDD Type 20 with much higher noise floor. So perhaps your unit was faulty or the mkIIs are noisier (which is hard to believe)... or I don't know. In my opinion, for work (mixing/audio editing), both the HEDD Type 07 and the Type 20 were pretty great value considering their performance.
Me personally, I slightly preferred the Neumann KH310 but I could easily work on the HEDDs as well. Here are a few reasons why I picked/kept the KH310 over the MkI Type 20s:
- Even though it felt soft on the hands, I hated the kind of rubberized surface HEDD used on the mkI cabinet, because that material ages horribly. In my experience after a few years that material can become this sticky, gooey mess you find on old midi controllers/mixer knobs/keyboard knobs. Luckily these mkII models are not covered in that rubbery material anymore, now it's just simple matte black (or white) paint, which is much better in the long run.
- The AMT tweeter's presentation on the Type 20 mkI sounded a bit different than what I was used to, so it felt to me I would need more time learning it's sound than what I've heard on the KH310. In a sense the AMT's sound (the high frequencies above 2.5kHz) though sounding extremely detailed, it felt a bit separated from the bottom end, separated from frequencies below 2.5kHz. The sound of the KH310 felt a tad more "coherent".
- The mkI Type 20 was a bit more "forgiving"/"smooth" than the KH310 and for my work I preferred the KH310's "boring/brutal honesty". For pure enjoyment and to impress clients I would have picked the Type 20. I would even argue that for someone who spends more time producing and less time mixing/analyzing, so for someone who needs a sound that's a bit more inspiring and "gutsy" the Type 20 can be the better choice.
- In my studio the bass clarity (not the amount but the clarity) below 60-70Hz was better on the KH310, so I could separate instruments and make mixing decisions in that region a bit faster on the KH310s. The Type 20s bass presentation wasn't bad at all but the KH310s bass clarity - at least in my room - was surprisingly great, I guess this is one of the KH310s biggest strength. I've never heard any such compact sized monitor as the KH310 with such level of detail and clarity in the bass region. Any monitor I've ever heard that outperformed the bass clarity of my KH310 was at least 2x as expensive.


Anyway, it would be interesting to hear Amir or some other mkII users whether they've got the same "crazy noise level" problem as you. If not, than I guess your monitor is faulty, so perhaps would worth you contacting HEDD directly to find a solution.

 

[F1308]

As I said earlier, I only tested the Type 20 mkI so I can not comment on the mkII. BUT: I tested the mkI in my own studio, side by side with my KH310. It's noise floor wasn't louder than the KH310s. I mix at a 165cm listening distance from the speakers, there was nothing audible at that distance. While positioning, I listened to it with my ears only a few cm away from the drivers and still, the noise floor of the Type 20 MkI wasn't higher than the KH310. There are well loved studio monitors at 3x the price of the HEDD Type 20 with much higher noise floor. So perhaps your unit was faulty or the mkIIs are noisier (which is hard to believe)... or I don't know. In my opinion, for work (mixing/audio editing), both the HEDD Type 07 and the Type 20 were pretty great value considering their performance.
Me personally, I slightly preferred the Neumann KH310 but I could easily work on the HEDDs as well. Here are a few reasons why I picked/kept the KH310 over the MkI Type 20s:
- Even though it felt soft on the hands, I hated the kind of rubberized surface HEDD used on the mkI cabinet, because that material ages horribly. In my experience after a few years that material can become this sticky, gooey mess you find on old midi controllers/mixer knobs/keyboard knobs. Luckily these mkII models are not covered in that rubbery material anymore, now it's just simple matte black (or white) paint, which is much better in the long run.
- The AMT tweeter's presentation on the Type 20 mkI sounded a bit different than what I was used to, so it felt to me I would need more time learning it's sound than what I've heard on the KH310. In a sense the AMT's sound (the high frequencies above 2.5kHz) though sounding extremely detailed, it felt a bit separated from the bottom end, separated from frequencies below 2.5kHz. The sound of the KH310 felt a tad more "coherent".
- The mkI Type 20 was a bit more "forgiving"/"smooth" than the KH310 and for my work I preferred the KH310's "boring/brutal honesty". For pure enjoyment and to impress clients I would have picked the Type 20. I would even argue that for someone who spends more time producing and less time mixing/analyzing, so for someone who needs a sound that's a bit more inspiring and "gutsy" the Type 20 can be the better choice.
- In my studio the bass clarity (not the amount but the clarity) below 60-70Hz was better on the KH310, so I could separate instruments and make mixing decisions in that region a bit faster on the KH310s. The Type 20s bass presentation wasn't bad at all but the KH310s bass clarity - at least in my room - was surprisingly great, I guess this is one of the KH310s biggest strength. I've never heard any such compact sized monitor as the KH310 with such level of detail and clarity in the bass region. Any monitor I've ever heard that outperformed the bass clarity of my KH310 was at least 2x as expensive.


Anyway, it would be interesting to hear Amir or some other mkII users whether they've got the same "crazy noise level" problem as you. If not, than I guess your monitor is faulty, so perhaps would worth you contacting HEDD directly to find a solution.

All this post is related to hissing ?

 

[ozonepaul]

All this post is related to hissing ?

If my previous post came across to you as all was "related to hissing" than my English is still very bad

(I've read this "crazy noise" comment + I've seen a few comments/posts trying to put these Type 20s in perspective when compared to the KH310 or the KH150. Sadly I can't help anyone when it comes to the KH150 but I thought I could share my experience about the Type 20 mkI vs the KH310. That's all.)

 

[amirm]

But we see here you are putting it at -6dB, not sure that's the knob position you've done with the test or not.

The control was centered for the open-port test. For closed port, I started that way but there was *severe* distortion in the sweep. I worried it would screw up the results or damage something. So I manually lowered it to what you see until I was comfortable with the level of distortion. And with it, let the closed port sweep run. That is what you see in the picture which I also used for listening tests.

I had not seen that you quoted from the manual even though I looked at it a couple of times. Let me see if I can play with it tomorrow.....

 

[fineMen]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the HEDD Audio Type 20 MK2 DSP studio monitor (active speaker). It was sent to me by the company and costs US $2,399 (each):

The price is hefty and for sure the offer addresses the professional user just by that. On the other hand, to use a midrange even in a small speaker amuses me. That is the way to go for high quality audio. The 'Heil' air motion transformer is as usual a weak link due to its inherent principal limitations, and the mid could possibly benefit from reducing its distortion also.

 

[MDNSC]

The control was centered for the open-port test. For closed port, I started that way but there was *severe* distortion in the sweep. I worried it would screw up the results or damage something. So I manually lowered it to what you see until I was comfortable with the level of distortion. And with it, let the closed port sweep run. That is what you see in the picture which I also used for listening tests.

I had not seen that you quoted from the manual even though I looked at it a couple of times. Let me see if I can play with it tomorrow.....

@amirm Thanks for clearing up! That is actually another file beside user mannual on their website:

I wll leave it as an attachment anyway.

Cheers
Damien

 

[Acoustics]

It would be great to see the difference between full volume and centered volume on this speaker. I own the HEDD Type 07 MK2 and the Bass08.
It is an awesome experience listening to these speakers. HEDD tells you to max the volume on the bass08 (Chain : DAC-PreaAmp-Bass08-Type07MK2.
I'm not sure, what is better. With Max Volume, i feel like SINAD Drops. Measurements would be great

 

[Takeone]

As I said earlier, I only tested the Type 20 mkI so I can not comment on the mkII. BUT: I tested the mkI in my own studio, side by side with my KH310. It's noise floor wasn't louder than the KH310s. I mix at a 165cm listening distance from the speakers, there was nothing audible at that distance. While positioning, I listened to it with my ears only a few cm away from the drivers and still, the noise floor of the Type 20 MkI wasn't higher than the KH310. There are well loved studio monitors at 3x the price of the HEDD Type 20 with much higher noise floor. So perhaps your unit was faulty or the mkIIs are noisier (which is hard to believe)... or I don't know. In my opinion, for work (mixing/audio editing), both the HEDD Type 07 and the Type 20 were pretty great value considering their performance.
Me personally, I slightly preferred the Neumann KH310 but I could easily work on the HEDDs as well. Here are a few reasons why I picked/kept the KH310 over the MkI Type 20s:
- Even though it felt soft on the hands, I hated the kind of rubberized surface HEDD used on the mkI cabinet, because that material ages horribly. In my experience after a few years that material can become this sticky, gooey mess you find on old midi controllers/mixer knobs/keyboard knobs. Luckily these mkII models are not covered in that rubbery material anymore, now it's just simple matte black (or white) paint, which is much better in the long run.
- The AMT tweeter's presentation on the Type 20 mkI sounded a bit different than what I was used to, so it felt to me I would need more time learning it's sound than what I've heard on the KH310. In a sense the AMT's sound (the high frequencies above 2.5kHz) though sounding extremely detailed, it felt a bit separated from the bottom end, separated from frequencies below 2.5kHz. The sound of the KH310 felt a tad more "coherent".
- The mkI Type 20 was a bit more "forgiving"/"smooth" than the KH310 and for my work I preferred the KH310's "boring/brutal honesty". For pure enjoyment and to impress clients I would have picked the Type 20. I would even argue that for someone who spends more time producing and less time mixing/analyzing, so for someone who needs a sound that's a bit more inspiring and "gutsy" the Type 20 can be the better choice.
- In my studio the bass clarity (not the amount but the clarity) below 60-70Hz was better on the KH310, so I could separate instruments and make mixing decisions in that region a bit faster on the KH310s. The Type 20s bass presentation wasn't bad at all but the KH310s bass clarity - at least in my room - was surprisingly great, I guess this is one of the KH310s biggest strength. I've never heard any such compact sized monitor as the KH310 with such level of detail and clarity in the bass region. Any monitor I've ever heard that outperformed the bass clarity of my KH310 was at least 2x as expensive.


Anyway, it would be interesting to hear Amir or some other mkII users whether they've got the same "crazy noise level" problem as you. If not, than I guess your monitor is faulty, so perhaps would worth you contacting HEDD directly to find a solution.

It was not a defect in the product, but a more sensitive band of Hisnoise compared to other speakers. It is not a defect, but a complete characteristic of the product.
When the noise level was checked directly, it was not different from other speakers, but noise was amplified at the listening position.
It's a story that not only I but also many users have experienced. I've already handed Hedd over to someone else.
For your information, my work place is extremely defensive against noise influx.

 

[F1308]

It would be great to see the difference between full volume and centered volume on this speaker. I own the HEDD Type 07 MK2 and the Bass08.
It is an awesome experience listening to these speakers. HEDD tells you to max the volume on the bass08 (Chain : DAC-PreaAmp-Bass08-Type07MK2.
I'm not sure, what is better. With Max Volume, i feel like SINAD Drops. Measurements would be great

The manual invites you to "Reduce INP. SENS. [dB] if necessary." once the settings are done following their instructions, available round the corner thanks to....

Post in thread 'HEDD Type 20 MK2 Monitor Review' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...type-20-mk2-monitor-review.41455/post-1468327

It is the same with my Roland Fantom and my Topping PA5 (working still flawlessly after a year), playing volume and gain until fully satisfied, and ending with 12 o'clock in Fantom and from 2 to 3 on PA5, depending on music content. Going above 3 is unbearable, having to reduce volume in Fantom, decreasing then the original signal, and thereby meeting less quality at the very same final loudness.

 

[fineMen]

Distortion does not correlate in any meaningful way to sound quality. Harmonic distortion is not a useful metric in audio.

It's easy to measure, but it simply does not mean anything from a perceptual standpoint.

Do you have a link to a study correlating IMD to perception? I'm not aware of one.

Frequency modulation may be perceived a bit different than harmonic distortion. As far as I've read the human ear uses some sort of 'bining' of frequencies, often it is told that these bins were about a 3rd octave wide and so on. The actual frequency of a tone might then be determined by evaluating the relative overlap with which a tone would excite a bin or two/three. Very much like the vision perceives color with just 4 different sensor types.

Anyway, the audibility of intermodulation is easily accessible. We all have (should) a tone generator and a decent headphone. Play three..five.. tones simultaneously, and check for the relative amplitudes and phases that still make a difference.

I came to accept IM of 1% or so, but for sure not more. The range between roughly 200Hz..1kHz seems to be the most sensitive, and I personally might even detect a contamination of 0,3% in this band. The famous German Dr. Klippel has a self-test on his site that addresses the personal sensitivity to the great total sum of typical speaker defects. I stopped at -53dB out of boredom, as one has to step through all increments down there. The results are published, and it seems some folks would not object on 10% of defects? I'm a bit more sensitive than the median, maybe due to DIY training, the poor me ...

Sorry, as to answer your initial question: I personally think that IM and HD correlate with sound quality. But that's only anecdotal. With the above said, I do feel not as pleased with speakers, that, measured afterwards, mix in the typical defects. Especially with a radical, bold attempt to reduce IM I was eventually supprised how much it made a difference. Maybe I'm unluckily focused on such things 8-/

 

[Zvu]

It was not a defect in the product, but a more sensitive band of Hisnoise compared to other speakers. It is not a defect, but a complete characteristic of the product...

To be able to claim this, you need to have experience with much more than one pair of speakers.

 

[KoreaBoy]

:이크_O:이크_O

당신의 나쁜 경험에 의문을 제기하지 않고 제 경험이 당신의 경험과 매우 다르다는 것을 말해야 합니다. 저는 HEDD 제품이 우수하다고 생각합니다(1세대 Type 07, Type 20 및 HEEDphone도 테스트했습니다). 당신은 "20 MK2/30 MK2 제품은 지금까지 가장 높은 소음 수준을 가지고 있습니다"라고 말했습니다. 매우 이상하게도 Amir는 이와 같은 언급을 하지 않았고 내가 들은 mkI 모델은 내 KH310보다 시끄럽지 않았습니다.

당신은 "헤드의 품질이 최악이고, 불량률이 가장 높으며, 문제를 경험한 많은 오너들이
그것은 중고 시장에서 판매되고 있습니다." 유럽에서는 확실히 그렇지 않습니다. 좋은 해 동안 저는 eBay에서 제 2 스튜디오 룸을 위한 중고 Type 30 또는 Type 20을 검색했지만 중고 시장에는 아무것도 없었습니다. 사실 방금 확인했습니다. ebay에는 사용된 유형 20/유형 30이 하나도 없고 리버브에도 없습니다(리버브에는 유형 07만 있음).

+ 예를 들어 포럼을 보면. HEDD 제품에 대한 기어스페이스에 대한 믹스 엔지니어/호비스트의 피드백은 매우 긍정적입니다.
예. 여기에서 이러한 유형 20 및 유형 30에 대한 200개 이상의 게시물을 찾을 수 있으며 대부분 매우 긍정적입니다.
https://gearspace.com/board/high-end/1244159-almost-zero-talk-about-hedd-type-30-20-a.html

I've used it since the launch of the new HEDD product.
Many Korean users who have used it since around the same time as me until now
I experienced a defect similar to mine.

Many people who used HEDD are selling HEDD speakers.
In the Korean market, there are a lot of used products up to 05MK2, 07MK2, and 20MK2.

If you haven't experienced this kind of high noise and poor assembly, you can have a good image.

The Korean distributor was also the worst at responding to the defect.
The HEDD company recommends changing distributors.

The distributor has displayed defective products and is selling them.
The seller says that's normal.
Do you have to buy it?
I kept checking the defect and confirmed that the product they were displaying was also defective.

Even studio friends have experienced and are not using serious defects.

Some lucky people think it's a good product because they haven't experienced a defect.
But with that recommendation, who will be responsible if you experience a serious defect?

My experience may not be the answer.
HEDD users, please check the bolt assembly.
I can check right away if I'm lying.

 

[KoreaBoy]

I can't agree. I have been using a pair of Hedd Type07 mk1 since start of 2019 and it sounds damn fine. It translates well, nothing shakes, nothing rattles. I am very sensitive to noises, can't stand speakers that hiss at nearfield distance. Of course, if you put your ear close, it has a hiss (just did a test, at 30cm it's audible), but at ~1m ear distance where I keep them, I can't hear them. I am really pleased of how they sound, it has usable bass until 38Hz. The only think I don't like about the mk1 is the painting which is a matt type, it is really hard to clean, but I understand they changed that in mk2.

And also, something is definitely surprising here, cause my pair sounds really loud in a 22 m2 room. I've had them compared with a friend's Adam S2V and they are on par, Adam go a bit lower in freq and a bit louder, but also they were much more expensive. Another friend of a friend also bought a pair of Type20's and I auditioned them briefly in his room, and it was loud! And I remember being impressed by the clarity and detail even at highest volume (can't remember exactly as this was in 2019)

Edit: - of course, I don't listen to 96db, my pair of Hedd type07 lives it's life mostly at 75-85db, with rare but short moments of "full tilt" to check how it sounds

If you experience Generek 8341,
You can immediately see how noisy the HEDD speakers are.

And the knob noise is...
Occurs when using the HEDD subwoofer.
If you haven't used a subwoofer, it's normal that you can't hear it.

I heard that the noise is heard at a distance of 30cm.
Please try type 20 MK2 and talk.
Even from a distance of 1m, your ears will hurt very much.

Although the noise was severe in 05MK2, 07MK2,
It was corrected through DSP modification without telling the consumer.
However, 20MK2, 30MK2 still have very loud noise.

The experience of using MK1
I hope you don't believe MK2 will be the same.

 

[anchan]

What would happen if you rotated a speaker such as this 90 degrees, so that the bass driver is on the bottom and tweeter + midrange at the top? Would there be lobing, and other negative results?
I have a similar configuration speaker myself (compact 3-way, identical placement of drivers, horizontal mount).

 

[MDNSC]

What would happen if you rotated a speaker such as this 90 degrees, so that the bass driver is on the bottom and tweeter + midrange at the top? Would there be lobing, and other negative results?
I have a similar configuration speaker myself (compact 3-way, identical placement of drivers, horizontal mount).

See the vertical directivitiy and you will find out.

 

[amirm]

What would happen if you rotated a speaker such as this 90 degrees, so that the bass driver is on the bottom and tweeter + midrange at the top? Would there be lobing, and other negative results?
I have a similar configuration speaker myself (compact 3-way, identical placement of drivers, horizontal mount).

On-axis response will naturally be the same. But as noted, directivity response will be swapped: horizontal becomes vertical and vice versa.

 

[MDNSC]

I just sent an email to HEDD Support, guess amirm will test it out first or HEDD will respond quicker