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HEDD HEDDPhone Review (headphone)

Blujackaal

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#81
It’s almost become a trend that when a new headphone especially expensive ones are released there seems to be a subjective hype going on about how better it is than every thing else previous. But this review right here is part of the prove that the latest is not always the greatest. and people need to calm down and stop prematurely abandoning their older headphones in excitement everytime a new headphone is released. Headphones seem to not be progressing the same way as DACs or Headphone Amps do over the years. Very interesting new review segment. waiting for more headphones.
Happy new year. :)
Blame audiophiles pushing the more money = better argument. The HD800 driver is on par with the HD650 with a horrid 6k spike, the LCD have weird FR that needs EQ, Stax's need mods/hard EQ to fix there -15db bass roll off. And most of them have the THD/FR oddness i expect from Grado, are they tuning by ear or never done actual R&D?. Remember when the ESP/95X review was posted few got sore enough to defend modding the L300ltd to stop the bass roll off which is $1100 with a charger?.

That not subjectivity in my view that just buyer remorse and them listening to ignorant people. Since these are same ones that will bash the ER4XR/High end grado for either THD or FR tuning.
 
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the_brunx

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#82
Blame audiophiles pushing the more money = better argument. The HD800 driver is on par with the HD650 with a horrid 6k spike, the LCD have weird FR that needs EQ, Stax's need mods/hard EQ to fix there -15db bass roll off. And most of them have the THD/FR oddness i expect from Grado, are they tuning by ear or never done actual R&D?. Remember when the ESP/95X review was posted few got sore enough to defend modding the L300ltd to stop the bass roll off which is $1100 with a charger?.

That not subjectivity in my view that just buyer remorse and them listening to ignorant people. Since these are same ones that will bash the ER4XR/High end grado for either THD or FR tuning.
I don't know about all that. but I really like the HD800's physical structure, comfortable, cool (both meanings), strong but light weight, good-looking. imo in that regard, I think it is the best, (I can't think of a better headphone)... and I have noticed that headphones with perceived large soundstage other than the frequency response characteristic, they also are typically headphones which give the ears the most breathable sense of room physically.(especially to the back of the ears and around), I may be wrong, just an observation. (can people hear through the bone behind the ears? :p)

and people say HD700 and the new HD660 share the same driver, but HD660 sounds more similar to headphones of a similar physical structure like the hd650/600/580 line but HD700 sounds very different from these. so I don't know how much of the sound character is contributed by the driver and how much from the housing/cups, I also know that the HE60 (Baby orpheus) also shares a similar housing structure (although there are differences) with HD600/650/580/660 but instead with electrostatic drivers, and I have read different people over the years describe the sound as a "HD600/580 on steroids" or an "HD600 upgrade" etc when describing the sound. all this is subjective. but normally if many people without any connection are consistently saying very similar subjective things, I usually start to take those subjective views a bit more seriously. but then again they might be influenced by another persons subjective views on the internet. conclusion: lets measure more headphones and use EQ. and not forget about comfort and other aspects when comparing headphones.
 
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solderdude

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#83
people say HD700 and the new HD660 share the same driver
People can say that but they are wrong.
They share the same 'magnet frame' just like most of the new Sennheiser drivers, but the membrane and damping differ.

It's like saying the HEDD driver is similar to a HEDD tweeter mounted in a headphone but that's equally wrong.
 

the_brunx

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#84
People can say that but they are wrong.
They share the same 'magnet frame' just like most of the new Sennheiser drivers, but the membrane and damping differ.

It's like saying the HEDD driver is similar to a HEDD tweeter mounted in a headphone but that's equally wrong.
now I don't know who to believe :p
 
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#86
@amirm

THX for your work.

Now, after about 30 hours of listening, I really like the Heddphone (coming from a Stax Sr-L507)
But it was clear to me from the start that the Bass had to be corrected.
Over time, another problem emerged:

In the 1khz range, where experience has shown that I am very sensitive, the HEDDphone has an audible hardness.
Until last night I didn't really know how to handle it.
Then came Amir

With your settings the HEDDphonecis sounding awesome
While I'm still playing around with the 250hz "extra boost" ...

20210103_073539.jpg


Btw.
As far as the distortion is concerned, from a technical point of view, I'm curious about what's behind it, but at the same time I don't want to get lost in the measured values ... Because the high frequency of the HEDDphone sounds excellent to me

PSX_20210103_174822.jpg


Nerdy Lord...
Screenshot_20210103-182349_Neutron Player.jpg
 
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#87
Glad that I saw this review as I was intrigued by the unusual design concept of the headphones and considered buying them.

Sometimes new and different aren't better it appears.
 

m8o

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#88
Manufacturers are more comfortable publishing pointless frequency range numbers.
A: They know their headphones measure 'wonky'
B: measured on test rig 'A' or using target 'B', heavily smoothed or averaged by using noise bands (think HD800 plots) and limit the shown Freq. range are all tricks to hide the ugly.
In the end its the number of sales (favorable reviews from guys that like all headphones) that determine if a model is found to be a hit on the market.

Headphones don't have to be 'flat' to be liked by the general public. Only to nerds.
Most buy headphones based on adverts or what they see 'others' wear in public (more of a fashion thing) or what they find looks nice.
They might even listen to a few in a shop and buy the ones that have a sound they 'like' at that moment.
The general public does not care about plots and certainly not 'fault revealing' plots.

Many people listen to 'normal' listening levels and the HEDD phone doesn't get in real trouble doing just that.
Amir pushes them to their limits to find out where that is which may or may not happen in real life.
No manufacturer will ever publish that.

In the end... headphones like this one, the SR1A and some other 'special' (that's what they are) headphones that have certain properties (aside from their price :D) may have certain properties at normal listening levels that sound very special and people like that.

Measurements are important. Seeking maximum capabilities is important, weight and comfort is important, price is important, even looks are important.
It's a good thing these are measured and folks like Amir like to find out the edges where they fall apart is important.
Not everyone will reach those values though, some will with certain music/levels (see Clear review).

Look at the review(s) and listen for yourself if you want to find out what it is all about.
Really well said. All of it. I appreciate the reminder. We all should.

There is often an intangible factor to a device some may call musicality | rhythm | toe tap'idness that must not be forgotten or underestimated when analyzing the imperfection of a device only evident at or near its extremes.

Now, I don't want to be misunderstood. [!] If say (only for the case of example we frequent readers of this forum have all seen) a DAC is producing horrible distortion when either its variable output volume or input signal is set at 0db, and either digital or analog attenuation is necessary to get clean output, and without measurements from here that uncovers that noone would really know that, that DAC's design or implementation is clearly broken, should be called out, should be avoided, and should be pulled and corrected by the manufacturer. Or a headphone has ridiculous early rolloff of bass or treble octaves before the typical threshold of hearing, high distortions at low to nominal levels, ridiculous wonkiness of FR, Phase, etc., that too is a broken design or implementation. Yet, the line between "broken" or not, is a blurry and subjective one.

Now, but if a headphone only has significant failings when "cranked", as long as you dont have affected hearing and would not be listening "cranked" (example, a very good friend of mine who is more casually into music, headphones, and speakers, has great hearing, and listens to headphones at levels I find annoyingly dim / soft), so would never be listening at a level where failings increase geometrically and become evident / audible, someone should not feel guilty in "liking" their purchase of a product when they like FR that doesnt conform to a baseline target curve or earlier mentioned "intangibles".

I however, do have affected hearing. I need to "crank" headphones to overcome that and reach a level of loudness I find pleasurable (ignoring that that just continues to affect my hearing; it's a vicious circle once you've done the damage). I said this earlier in this thread but will say it again here for completeness, that without knowing what it was at the time, when I auditioned this headphone ("cranked", if that wasn't obvious) I found myself turning down the volume (a behavior very unlike me) because the distortion was audible.

So, while this may not be a fantastic headphone for me, it may be one for my friend. Thanx to these sorts of measurements/reviews, we can be informed consumers and make a purchase right for us, given our usage envelope. Something I try not to forget.
 
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the_brunx

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#89
People can say that but they are wrong.
They share the same 'magnet frame' just like most of the new Sennheiser drivers, but the membrane and damping differ.

It's like saying the HEDD driver is similar to a HEDD tweeter mounted in a headphone but that's equally wrong.
how did you come to your conclusion about the Sennheiser HD660 driver not being the same as the HD700?
 

Robbo99999

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#91
@amirm

THX for your work.

Now, after about 30 hours of listening, I really like the Heddphone (coming from a Stax Sr-L507)
But it was clear to me from the start that the Bass had to be corrected.
Over time, another problem emerged:

In the 1khz range, where experience has shown that I am very sensitive, the HEDDphone has an audible hardness.
Until last night I didn't really know how to handle it.
Then came Amir

With your settings the HEDDphonecis sounding awesome
While I'm still playing around with the 250hz "extra boost" ...

View attachment 103436

Btw.
As far as the distortion is concerned, from a technical point of view, I'm curious about what's behind it, but at the same time I don't want to get lost in the measured values ... Because the high frequency of the HEDDphone sounds excellent to me

View attachment 103430

Nerdy Lord...
View attachment 103438
Gotta give you a like for the fireplace & the wine.....cheers!
 
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#92
In any case, quality control still has room for improvement.
Mine needs to be replaced.
The left joint is much more difficult to move...


 

solderdude

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#94
9kHz is 'measurement error' of the used HATS.
6kHz is too narrow too correct and seen in all measurements so probably real... but really narrow that's why you don't see Oratory correcting for it either.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

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Thread Starter #95
@amirm

Why didn't you EQ the Dips at 6 and 9khz?
Dips are due to cancellations. You can't fix them with EQ in general because you change both the direct sound and reflected one. And at any rate, the response there is highly variable. So best left alone.
 
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#98
For today i brought the HE400i home.
Purely out of curiosity, i would like to make a direct comparison with the HEDDphone, after both have been optimized with regard to frequency response.
 

bobbooo

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#99
My HRTF is probably out of whack lol. I demoed these a couple of months ago and they're definitely warm sounding to my ears without EQ. Around the same warmness as Focal Clear without EQ. HD800S and Focal Utopia are definitely brighter than HEDD barring EQ.
Nothing wrong with your HRTF, these do have a warm/dark overall spectral tilt, as evidenced by their downward sloping error response from Oratory's measurements:

20210106_131325.png


In numbers, that's a slope for the linear regression line through the error response of -0.73 according to AutoEQ's calculations. In contrast the Focal Utopia for example has a slope of 0.2 (slopes > 0 brighter, < 0 darker, ~0 neutral).
 
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bobbooo

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I find these measurements a little different. The bass roll off is less. No treble craziness. No weird 750hz. How are the measurements so different?
Instead of AutoEQ, which doesn't use the proper Harman target and has overly busy graphs, it's best to use https://headphonedatabase.com/oratory for Oratory's measurements:

Harman 2018-Hedd Heddphone.png


This matches the frequency response best to the Harman target as I quote Oratory describing here, as opposed to other measurements which use a fixed frequency for matching which can give a misleading depiction of tonality compared to the target.
 
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