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HEDD HEDDPhone Review (headphone)

the_brunx

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#61
People typically believe that transducer technology is improving every year, and I know that it's not totally comparable, but why are the best recording studios in the world still using vintage microphones?.
 
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dfuller

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#63
but why are the best recording studios in the world still using vintage microphones?.
Because music production is very different from music reproduction.
 

the_brunx

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#64
Because when you are making the music you want those sweet sweet even harmonics blended in. But we digress.
But with all the decades of transducer technology why haven't they come out with way sweeter microphones today which beat the vintages?

I just find it fascinating that even the "modern" Sony C800G released in the 90's (used to record many of the charts music of today along side the Neumann U47/U87 and the rest), uses the exact same capsule technology (clone) of a Neumann K67 from the 60s.
 
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Francis Vaughan

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#65
Recording studios keep the vintage microphones as high priced bling to impress the customers. Just like they keep LA-2 and Fairchild 670 compressors around. They do have a very specific sound. There are lots of new microphone designs around as well. Indeed it has become something of a cottage industry. But the fundamentals haven't changed all that much. The big names chip away advancing the state of the art.
There is no such thing as a perfect microphone. Every one has unique properties. The precise off axis response makes exact positioning critical, and the final sound an artistic choice. The sound field the microphone is immersed in isn't necessarily the sound field that is intended for reproduction.

With headphones, one must applaud companies that try something new, like an AMT. Someone needs to. It is just plain hard to make new ideas work, and especially hard to bring a new idea to market cheaply. Not all of them will stick.
 

Robbo99999

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#66
Am I the only one surprised by how little views this headphone review has gotten compared to previous headphone reviews, or are we talking time elapsed, and not many replies vs some other threads?
 

infinitesymphony

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#67
Am I the only one surprised by how little views this headphone review has gotten compared to previous headphone reviews, or are we talking time elapsed, and not many replies vs some other threads?
Probably just lack of familiarity compared to the major brands, sort of like the reviews about DIY speakers and amps.
 

Robbo99999

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#68
Probably just lack of familiarity compared to the major brands, sort of like the reviews about DIY speakers and amps.
Yeah, interesting, might be down to google related hits then, because I'm guessing most ASR users would read every headphone review (or at least skim it whilst viewing the page).
 

infinitesymphony

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#69
Definitely. 2021 should be a year of explosive growth for ASR in terms of casual viewership because headphones are one of the least expensive and most practical ways to get into the audio hobby. Every time a pair of 'phones from a major manufacturer gets reviewed here, we'll be a little closer to being on the general public's radar.

Unless a niche manufacturer releases something that is a bargain in terms of price vs. performance, most people won't have a reason to be interested. We've seen that it's possible, though.

When it comes to forums, the usual assumption is the 1% rule (or the 90-9-1 rule) -- around 90% of people persuing the site will only be lurkers. More popular products, more lurkers, and hopefully more members.
 
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pavuol

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#70
Am I the only one surprised by how little views this headphone review has gotten compared to previous headphone reviews, or are we talking time elapsed, and not many replies vs some other threads?
Yep, considering Hedd audio is here just 5 years (founded 2015), imo they are still kind of exotic at speaker market, not to mention the headphone one (also due to fact they brought these headphones to market just recently)
 

Robbo99999

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#71
Definitely. 2021 should be a year of explosive growth for ASR in terms of casual viewership because headphones are one of the least expensive and most practical ways to get into the audio hobby. Every time a pair of 'phones from a major manufacturer gets reviewed here, we'll be a little closer to being on the general public's radar.

Unless a niche manufacturer releases something that is a bargain in terms of price vs. performance, most people won't have a reason to be interested. We've seen that it's possible, though.

When it comes to forums, the usual assumption is the 1% rule (or the 90-9-1 rule) -- around 90% of people persuing the site will only be lurkers. More popular products, more lurkers, and hopefully more members.
Ha, I guess that's why I've got 3 pairs of "audiophile" headphones already (and two on the way to be delivered soon, an extra (spare) beloved K702 in case they stop making them and a new HE4XX for experimentation purposes).......whilst at the same time having only one pair of "budget" but proven good speakers! :D

EDIT: yes, we should be inclusive to newbies (and not assume they know anything), when I joined here beginning of this year I didn't even know what a Q or Gain value was or a Parametric Filter, nor Equaliser APO, miniDSP, room correction, spinorama, listening window, on-axis, directivity, distortion, "equidistant triangle", nor the Harman Curve (headphone & speakers), and only just roughly knew what a frequency response was........and I'm a technically minded individual, so we should be inclusive of newbies - there's really a ton to know in this industry if you want to get to the truth, and most people know practically zero about it! I used to think the greater the frequency response of a headphone or speaker then the better, ie 20Hz-48kHz vs 20Hz - 20kHz.....bigger the better!
 
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#72
I'm kind of shocked by these measurements because I listened to the HEDDphone extensively at Can Jam and I quite liked it. Also talked with the president (director? not really sure) of HEDD for quite a while. He's a really cool guy who seems to know his engineering and doesn't buy into audiophile BS. If this review finds it's way back to him, I am hoping he'll take the time to analyze the findings and make some revisions. I'd also be interested in seeing a review of their monitors now, since they also use a similar AMT, but they're pricey so a reader would probably need to send them.
 
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amirm

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Thread Starter #74
There are probably less members who own one to feel passed off ... :p
That definitely seems to be the factor. I thought our membership was beyond that but seemingly not. :( Thankfully the owners have taken the data in stride which is great.
 
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amirm

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Thread Starter #75
I'm kind of shocked by these measurements because I listened to the HEDDphone extensively at Can Jam and I quite liked it. Also talked with the president (director? not really sure) of HEDD for quite a while. He's a really cool guy who seems to know his engineering and doesn't buy into audiophile BS. If this review finds it's way back to him, I am hoping he'll take the time to analyze the findings and make some revisions. I'd also be interested in seeing a review of their monitors now, since they also use a similar AMT, but they're pricey so a reader would probably need to send them.
Companies need to step up and start posting their own measurements. This is a transformation that we need to force to happen. HEDD, being a pro monitor company, should have done this.
 

Robbo99999

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#76
There are probably less members who own one to feel passed off ... :p
Ha, that's gonna be at least part of it, as members with a certain headphone would want to know how it measured. That would also correspond to general Google hits as well I guess, if it's a more popular headphone generally. I think this latter point is more significant probably, because I would imagine most ASR members that have even a passing interest in headphones would have at least skimmed the headphone review regardless of if they owned it or not.
 

Robbo99999

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#77
Companies need to step up and start posting their own measurements. This is a transformation that we need to force to happen. HEDD, being a pro monitor company, should have done this.
That's good, but I imagine that headphone companies might only feel comfortable doing this if they are willing to adhere to the Headphone Harman Curve, because in terms of headphone frequency response measurements I think that this is the most widely accepted standard.....if it is indeed only really known by a minority of the people "in the world" but more so in the industry. If we are wanting headphone manufacturers to conform to the Headphone Harman Curve, then this does seem a bit limiting.....although I suppose that's a bit like saying speakers should be flat.......but it's not quite the same because we don't all perceive the same when listening to headphones (in terms of what is flat). I think headphone manufacturers have to have a bit more flexibility than saying they all have to conform to the Headphone Harman Curve, but unless they do alternative research to back up the frequency response curves that you want them to show (if they are alternative to Harman Curve) then I think they don't have much to gain from showing the frequency response of their headphones (even though I'd like them to publish the data).
 

infinitesymphony

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#78
That's good, but I imagine that headphone companies might only feel comfortable doing this if they are willing to adhere to the Headphone Harman Curve, because in terms of headphone frequency response measurements I think that this is the most widely accepted standard.....if it is indeed only really known by a minority of the people "in the world" but more so in the industry. If we are wanting headphone manufacturers to conform to the Headphone Harman Curve, then this does seem a bit limiting.....although I suppose that's a bit like saying speakers should be flat.......but it's not quite the same because we don't all perceive the same when listening to headphones (in terms of what is flat). I think headphone manufacturers have to have a bit more flexibility than saying they all have to conform to the Headphone Harman Curve, but unless they do alternative research to back up the frequency response curves that you want them to show (if they are alternative to Harman Curve) then I think they don't have much to gain from showing the frequency response of their headphones (even though I'd like them to publish the data).
Well, we're scoring and ranking headphones based on adherence to a Harman or Harman-like curve, so if I had headphones that didn't align with the target I wouldn't want to show my notes either. IIRC, even Harman's studies show that factors like age and listening experience level mean there are quite a few people who will not like what the target offers even if the majority will.
 

solderdude

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#79
Manufacturers are more comfortable publishing pointless frequency range numbers.
A: They know their headphones measure 'wonky'
B: measured on test rig 'A' or using target 'B', heavily smoothed or averaged by using noise bands (think HD800 plots) and limit the shown Freq. range are all tricks to hide the ugly.
In the end its the number of sales (favorable reviews from guys that like all headphones) that determine if a model is found to be a hit on the market.

Headphones don't have to be 'flat' to be liked by the general public. Only to nerds.
Most buy headphones based on adverts or what they see 'others' wear in public (more of a fashion thing) or what they find looks nice.
They might even listen to a few in a shop and buy the ones that have a sound they 'like' at that moment.
The general public does not care about plots and certainly not 'fault revealing' plots.

Many people listen to 'normal' listening levels and the HEDD phone doesn't get in real trouble doing just that.
Amir pushes them to their limits to find out where that is which may or may not happen in real life.
No manufacturer will ever publish that.

In the end... headphones like this one, the SR1A and some other 'special' (that's what they are) headphones that have certain properties (aside from their price :D) may have certain properties at normal listening levels that sound very special and people like that.

Measurements are important. Seeking maximum capabilities is important, weight and comfort is important, price is important, even looks are important.
It's a good thing these are measured and folks like Amir like to find out the edges where they fall apart is important.
Not everyone will reach those values though, some will with certain music/levels (see Clear review).

Look at the review(s) and listen for yourself if you want to find out what it is all about.
 

Robbo99999

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#80
Manufacturers are more comfortable publishing pointless frequency range numbers.
A: They know their headphones measure 'wonky'
B: measured on test rig 'A' or using target 'B', heavily smoothed or averaged by using noise bands (think HD800 plots) and limit the shown Freq. range are all tricks to hide the ugly.
In the end its the number of sales (favorable reviews from guys that like all headphones) that determine if a model is found to be a hit on the market.

Headphones don't have to be 'flat' to be liked by the general public. Only to nerds.
Most buy headphones based on adverts or what they see 'others' wear in public (more of a fashion thing) or what they find looks nice.
They might even listen to a few in a shop and buy the ones that have a sound they 'like' at that moment.
The general public does not care about plots and certainly not 'fault revealing' plots.

Many people listen to 'normal' listening levels and the HEDD phone doesn't get in real trouble doing just that.
Amir pushes them to their limits to find out where that is which may or may not happen in real life.
No manufacturer will ever publish that.

In the end... headphones like this one, the SR1A and some other 'special' (that's what they are) headphones that have certain properties (aside from their price :D) may have certain properties at normal listening levels that sound very special and people like that.

Measurements are important. Seeking maximum capabilities is important, weight and comfort is important, price is important, even looks are important.
It's a good thing these are measured and folks like Amir like to find out the edges where they fall apart is important.
Not everyone will reach those values though, some will with certain music/levels (see Clear review).

Look at the review(s) and listen for yourself if you want to find out what it is all about.
I'm definitely with you on the first 2 thirds of your post, I agree.
 

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