Heavily EQ'd HD 800S - ASR wants me to pick another pair

[Dazerdoreal]

In any case, my DT 770 Pro I can easily listen to with -27.5 dB setting.

The DT 770 Pro is also quite bright in the treble. This means to me that you are not someone who generally cannot stand bright tones.
Maybe you could try something different then.

I would recommend now the following:
- Please load the default EQ of Oratory1990 into your software again.
- Then start this tone generator. Turn down the volume first, the tone generator is quite loud by default.

Online Tone Generator - generate pure tones of any frequency

www.szynalski.com

- At the beginning, it is set to 440hz. Start from there, scroll upwards through the frequencies and check if there are any frequencies which sound much louder than the rest.

Please do this at moderate volume, otherweise these tones can damage your ears.

 

[Jimbob54]

By the way, I regularly see the audiologist

There are a couple that do work no problem:
DT 770 Pro, DT 990 Pro, AKG K812, Dan Clark Ether 2, Audeze LCD-2 Classic

Pick one and assume why they work for me

I have no idea. But that long EQ you posted makes the 800s nowhere near either of the Beyers.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

I have no idea. But that long EQ you posted makes the 800s nowhere neither of the Beyers.

My next guess is a resonance/HRTF peak at an unusual frequency which is not to be found in the measurements.

 

[Jimbob54]

Possibly . We will never know. The tuning of the 800s is far from perfect for sure and everyone has different preferences . But there is for sure a large gulf in this case .

My next guess is a resonance/HRTF peak at an unusual frequency which is not to be found in the measurements.

 

[MAB]

By the way, I regularly see the audiologist

There are a couple that do work no problem:
DT 770 Pro, DT 990 Pro, AKG K812, Dan Clark Ether 2, Audeze LCD-2 Classic

Pick one and assume why they work for me

While acknowledging that each person has a dramatically different preference, none of us can decipher why such a radical EQ is perceived by you to be good. You have eliminated many frequencies, well beyond what I would consider normal variation in preference. And since you suggest DT770 Pro is a reference, your EQ on the 800s is not aligned in any way, makes the mystery even deeper.

I have no idea how to help you if this is really your preference curve. If real, your perception of ~2kHz is spectacularly elevated, to the point I am not clear how you deal with random environmental noises. But I am not you.

However, I am more inclined to believe that you got yourself confused with the EQ (as many do), need to take a break and circle back to reality.

 

[DEF]

The DT 770 Pro is also quite bright in the treble. This means to me that you are not someone who generally cannot stand bright tones.
Maybe you could try something different then.

I would recommend now the following:
- Please load the default EQ of Oratory1990 into your software again.
- Then start this tone generator. Turn down the volume first, the tone generator is quite loud by default.

Online Tone Generator - generate pure tones of any frequency

www.szynalski.com

- At the beginning, it is set to 440hz. Start from there, scroll upwards through the frequencies and check if there are any frequencies which sound much louder than the rest.

Please do this at moderate volume, otherweise these tones can damage your ears.

I no more want to do that.

My next guess is a resonance/HRTF peak at an unusual frequency which is not to be found in the measurements.

I noticed that using the DT 770 Pro EQ preset from oratory1990 made it worse
Looking at it, theres gain at 3800Hz, but even with it applied, it is nowhere near the amount of drama I get on my pair of HD 800 S.

Let me go into depth a bit.
When I feel something is uncomfortable to listen to,
1) My ears react, and the sound can be described as to when you yawn.
2) There is a felt pressure buildup
3) I become more sensitive the longer it goes on.
3b) After exposure with HD 800 S, even the water coming out from the Faucet is painful.

 

[DEF]

While acknowledging that each person has a dramatically different preference, none of us can decipher why such a radical EQ is perceived by you to be good. You have eliminated many frequencies, well beyond what I would consider normal variation in preference. And since you suggest DT770 Pro is a reference, your EQ on the 800s is not aligned in any way, makes the mystery even deeper.

I have no idea how to help you if this is really your preference curve. If real, your perception of ~2kHz is spectacularly elevated, to the point I am not clear how you deal with random environmental noises. But I am not you.

However, I am more inclined to believe that you got yourself confused with the EQ (as many do), need to take a break and circle back to reality.

I got custom hearing protection from a audiologist and I can't be around people much, or anything noisy in certain frequencies.
But I make music myself, play the Piano and plan on Practicing a bit on Drums... For Taiko.
It's not the volume, it's the hall and the reflections, as well as the velocity of sounds...
E.g any harsh sound in voice - when you say it sternly is problematic for me.

Problematic in Voice:
Plosive sounds, p t
Sibilances, s/z

I need to use hearing protection for vaccuuming if the room is untreated / has much hall
I got custom in ear protection and I got a pair of 3M Peltor Optime III.

 

[DEF]

I have no idea. But that long EQ you posted makes the 800s nowhere near either of the Beyers.

Fascinating. I remember when I tested speakers, it was similarly difficult. I ended up with APS Klasik 2020 and could not have Neumann KH120A, Various Genelec.

One thing that would make sense is that it is
1. Reflections
2. Spatial effects
3. Wideness / Stage

I can remember that the Neumanns for instance were pin-point accurate and that made me go in-and-out of phase, at least that's what I felt when I moved an inch.
Moreover, they felt harsh, and I could not continue to use them.

You know, with the HD 800 S, I even tried to turn the Width down to 0.00, but that made them sound worse.
Width is at 1.00 afaik by default

 

[DEF]

I have no idea. But that long EQ you posted makes the 800s nowhere near either of the Beyers.

View attachment 398397

Oh and by the way, I loved Focal Utopia. Zero issues, except that cable.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

I no more want to do that.

Sure. I only try to help you.

 

[MAB]

I got custom hearing protection from a audiologist and I can't be around people much, or anything noisy in certain frequencies.
But I make music myself, play the Piano and plan on Practicing a bit on Drums... For Taiko.
It's not the volume, it's the hall and the reflections, as well as the velocity of sounds...
E.g any harsh sound in voice - when you say it sternly is problematic for me.

Problematic in Voice:
Plosive sounds, p t
Sibilances, s/z

I need to use hearing protection for vaccuuming if the room is untreated / has much hall
I got custom in ear protection and I got a pair of 3M Peltor Optime III.

OK, I think I understand. You should ask your audiologist about what specific steps you might take with EQ, like guidance on specific frequencies to target. Perhaps bring some examples of EQ that you find helpful, like the large notch. This might reduce the potential scatter-shot approach that is easy to fall into with EQ.

 

[DEF]

OK, I think I understand. You should ask your audiologist about what specific steps you might take with EQ, like guidance on specific frequencies to target. Perhaps bring some examples of EQ that you find helpful, like the large notch. This might reduce the potential scatter-shot approach that is easy to fall into with EQ.

But this doesn't make sense. Based on my experience with other headphones which are bright too based on the measurements, I have no issues.
Also, I was googling this issue and found lots of people who feel "pressure" with HD 800 S but not meaning the clamping force.

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/187wzaa/listen_a_new_hd800s_feels_pressure_build_up_in_ear

https://www.reddit.com/r/sennheiser/comments/l0yb3f/hd_800_s_a_real_issue_or_is_it_in_my_head

HD800s are painful.

HD800s are painful, literally. I received them 3 days ago. This evening, while listening a bit louder than usual for a couple minutes, my right ear, for the first time ever, got really painful. Enough to have to stop listening immediately and still feel it for several hours. Now that my ear...

www.head-fi.org

It took me at least 8 hours to be pain-free ( from the sonics ) again

Isn't that a comparable thing with speakers that use metal tweeters ???
I can't stand them either. Mine has really flexible ultra-thin plastic

 

[MAB]

But this doesn't make sense. Based on my experience with other headphones which are bright too based on the measurements, I have no issues.

Isn't that a comparable thing with speakers that use metal domes ???
I can't stand them either. Mine has really flexible ultra-thin plastic

None of your issues make sense to me. Neither do your observations. Metal domes are not in any way comparable to what you are describing, or the EQ you are using, or the various sonic comparisons you are making.

For instance, how would you reconcile all of your observations and apparent 'preference' curve with comparison of this soft-dome tweeter:

with this titanium dome tweeter from the same manufacturer:

These are very typical responses. You can go find hundreds. In fact, great sounding speakers are made from all sorts of materials, as are bad sounding. Soft dome tweeters with bad resonances sound terribly harsh.

Which is why I suggest you talk to your audiologist. If you do have particular EQ needs and they are as dramatic as you suggest, fishing around the internet for answers is not a good approach, even in this forum.

 

[DEF]

None of your issues make sense to me. Neither do your observations. Metal domes are not in any way comparable to what you are describing, or the EQ you are using, or the various sonic comparisons you are making.

For instance, how would you reconcile all of your observations and apparent 'preference' curve with comparison of this soft-dome tweeter:
View attachment 398507

with this titanium dome tweeter from the same manufacturer:
View attachment 398508

These are very typical responses. You can go find hundreds. In fact, great sounding speakers are made from all sorts of materials, as are bad sounding. Soft dome tweeters with bad resonances sound terribly harsh.

Which is why I suggest you talk to your audiologist. If you do have particular EQ needs and they are as dramatic as you suggest, fishing around the internet for answers is not a good approach, even in this forum.

But I don't need any EQ on Focal Utopia nor DT 770 Pro/990 Pro, Nor AKG K812, Nor Audeze LCD-2 Classic. Nor Dan Clark Ether 2... And all the others I had talked about before.

 

[Mr Swing King]

I think your mind is playing tricks on you
We often hear what we see or indeed what we expect. If you’ve read something specific about X headphone, fx a certain driver material being detrimental or having some sort of weird impact on the sound etc etc, your brain will do the rest.
I won’t post the McGurk effect video, but it is important to remember just how susceptible we as humans are to getting things wrong when we combine hearing with sight.

 

[DEF]

I think your mind is playing tricks on you
We often hear what we see or indeed what we expect. If you’ve read something specific about X headphone, fx a certain driver material being detrimental or having some sort of weird impact on the sound etc etc, your brain will do the rest.
I won’t post the McGurk effect video, but it is important to remember just how susceptible we as humans are to getting things wrong when we combine hearing with sight.

No? I did absolutely think buying the HD800 S they were going to be much better than what I already had
It's much more reasonable there is something else going on that isn't in the measurements.

As @solderdude already said, the measurements above 8kHz range or so can't be trusted with the usual fixtures

In any case, I am tired of it. They will be sent back.

 

[DEF]

By the way, in the past I had Sennheiser HD 25-1 II and they were OK, too.
And I had Sennheiser HD650 for a bit and tonally found them very off.
But neither did reproduce this issue.

 

[solderdude]

Clearly the HD800S are not for you. It happens.
There are many people disliking the HD800(S) and also many people disliking Focal Utopia, DT 770 Pro/990 Pro, AKG K812, Audeze LCD-2 Classic, HD25 or Dan Clark Ether 2 for their own reasons.
That's why it is a good thing that there are so many headphones around.

Why, in the end, went searching for another headphone than the above mentioned ones (which all are tonally and comfort wise all quite different) if they were not problematic and sounded fine even without EQ ?

Certain aspects can't be fixed with EQ and as @MAB stated EQ can set you on the wrong foot when desperately trying to get the sound to ones liking.

What's interesting is that DT770 and even more so DT990 as well as K812 have piercing treble but in another part of the spectrum.

I know someone that eventually gave up on headphones all together (he did not want to shove things in his ear so IEMs were no option and wearing glasses meant on-ears were no option either) and turns out he got physical pain from wearing headphones and figured it was the clamping force (even if light) on certain spots on his head.
The HD800 clamps (lightly) on a different area on the head than the other headphones.... maybe a clue ?

Maybe, just maybe it is not just FR related ?

 

[DEF]

Clearly the HD800S are not for you. It happens.
There are many people disliking the HD800(S) and also many people disliking Focal Utopia, DT 770 Pro/990 Pro, AKG K812, Audeze LCD-2 Classic, HD25 or Dan Clark Ether 2 for their own reasons.
That's why it is a good thing that there are so many headphones around.

Why, in the end, went searching for another headphone than the above mentioned ones (which all are tonally and comfort wise all quite different) if they were not problematic and sounded fine even without EQ ?

Certain aspects can't be fixed with EQ and as @MAB stated EQ can set you on the wrong foot when desperately trying to get the sound to ones liking.

What's interesting is that DT770 and even more so DT990 as well as K812 have piercing treble but in another part of the spectrum.

I know someone that eventually gave up on headphones all together (he did not want to shove things in his ear so IEMs were no option and wearing glasses meant on-ears were no option either) and turns out he got physical pain from wearing headphones and figured it was the clamping force (even if light) on certain spots on his head.
The HD800 clamps (lightly) on a different area on the head than the other headphones.... maybe a clue ?

Maybe, just maybe it is not just FR related ?

I have a theory other than that.

Could it be possible that the real reason for the discomfort or harshness isn't just about frequency response, but the grill in the back of the headphone?

Think of it like this: if you take an air pistol and hold it up to an uneven surface, you'll hear sharp, harsh sounds because the air can't flow smoothly. I think something similar happens with the grill on the back of the headphone. When you're listening to music, the drivers are pushing and pulling air, and if the grill design isn't perfect, that air might move unevenly, creating micro-turbulence or reflections that affect the sound quality.

So when you're hearing harsh treble or discomfort, it might not just be the tuning of the headphone or clamping force. It could be the way the air is interacting with that grill, especially in higher frequencies, which are really sensitive to these kinds of disturbances. The uneven airflow could be causing some of those unwanted peaks and harshness.

 

[solderdude]

When you are one of the few vocal persons on the web that complain about this it is very unlikely.

Here's something you can try (and will slightly alter the FR) is to remove the dust guard (you can simply pull it out it is very loose in there) and put some drawer liner (you know the squishy stuff that prevents things from sliding around) cut into the same shape as the metal screen and place it in the headphone.
Then put the dust guard back in. This will 'damp' any effects of the metal grill IF there are any.

In the picture below the pads are removed but you don't have to do that, leave those in place.

While you are at it also try the toilet-paper trick which effectively lowers HF resonances better than EQ can.