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Heated Garage?

PatentLawyer

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We are in negotiations with a builder for a new home, and there was one option presented to me that I am completely unsure about: natural gas heaters in the garage. They mount near the ceiling, and obviously the exhaust is ducted outside.


At this point in my life, I am doing very little hobby work in my garage so I don't feel there is much value in the garage being warm, except for the living space that's above it. There are two bedrooms over the garage, along with plumbing. (The home is in a suburb of NYC--so winters are cold, but not Buffalo cold.) We've never had a home with living space above unheated space like this, and my concern is uncomfortably cold floors and maybe even frozen pipes. Assuming R30 insulation in the garage ceiling, would garage heat be solving an imaginary problem? Or do you think garage heat is the best thing ever, and I'll kick myself for skipping it?

(Cost is about $3000, so not too significant in grand scheme of a house, but I don't want to waste money.)
 
Probably not worth it. Does the $3000 include insulation, or is that being done anyway?

I ASSUME the building codes minimize pipe-freezing in these situations. (I live in California... ;) )

Freezing pipes and cold floors should be no worse than having an unheated crawl space or basement. And of course, there are pipe warmers and radiant floor heating.

They mount near the ceiling, and obviously the exhaust is ducted outside.
Couldn't it be integrated with the other heating?
 
We are in negotiations with a builder for a new home, and there was one option presented to me that I am completely unsure about: natural gas heaters in the garage. They mount near the ceiling, and obviously the exhaust is ducted outside.


At this point in my life, I am doing very little hobby work in my garage so I don't feel there is much value in the garage being warm, except for the living space that's above it. There are two bedrooms over the garage, along with plumbing. (The home is in a suburb of NYC--so winters are cold, but not Buffalo cold.) We've never had a home with living space above unheated space like this, and my concern is uncomfortably cold floors and maybe even frozen pipes. Assuming R30 insulation in the garage ceiling, would garage heat be solving an imaginary problem? Or do you think garage heat is the best thing ever, and I'll kick myself for skipping it?

(Cost is about $3000, so not too significant in grand scheme of a house, but I don't want to waste money.)
just connect some mains cable to the street light outside and get some free electric to heat the home at night time , also can use telescope optics to aim at street lights close up that light will be shined onto solar cell and converts to electric to power low powered LED lights , would need a lot of telescopes as will only get small amounts of m/v and need volts in higher numbers to run the LED low powered high brightness output , its doable
 
Probably not worth it. Does the $3000 include insulation, or is that being done anyway?

I ASSUME the building codes minimize pipe-freezing in these situations. (I live in California... ;) )

Freezing pipes and cold floors should be no worse than having an unheated crawl space or basement. And of course, there are pipe warmers and radiant floor heating.


Couldn't it be integrated with the other heating?
Thanks for the thoughts! The insulation is being done anyway.

It cannot be integrated with the other heating because -- and I am probably mangling the specifics -- code doesn't allow ductwork that could bring CO from the garage into the main living space.

Enjoy your CA winter! :)
 
We are in negotiations with a builder for a new home, and there was one option presented to me that I am completely unsure about: natural gas heaters in the garage. They mount near the ceiling, and obviously the exhaust is ducted outside.


At this point in my life, I am doing very little hobby work in my garage so I don't feel there is much value in the garage being warm, except for the living space that's above it. There are two bedrooms over the garage, along with plumbing. (The home is in a suburb of NYC--so winters are cold, but not Buffalo cold.) We've never had a home with living space above unheated space like this, and my concern is uncomfortably cold floors and maybe even frozen pipes. Assuming R30 insulation in the garage ceiling, would garage heat be solving an imaginary problem? Or do you think garage heat is the best thing ever, and I'll kick myself for skipping it?

(Cost is about $3000, so not too significant in grand scheme of a house, but I don't want to waste money.)
Electric space heaters sitting on the floor are a much cheaper and more efficient option, in my experience. Heat sources in or near the ceiling are going to be fighting physics too. I use two small Vornado units I bought at Costco for $59 each and together they easily keep our oversized three car garage (albeit with only a 10 foot ceiling) above 60F during nights in the teens. Note that we also have well-sealing insulated garage doors, and the garage doors will have a big impact on your heating needs.
 
Electric space heaters sitting on the floor are a much cheaper and more efficient option, in my experience. Heat sources in or near the ceiling are going to be fighting physics too. I use two small Vornado units I bought at Costco for $59 each and together they easily keep our oversized three car garage (albeit with only a 10 foot ceiling) above 60F during nights in the teens. Note that we also have well-sealing insulated garage doors, and the garage doors will have a big impact on your heating needs.
Very helpful. Thank you.
 
If the garage door faces South and it is is your budget and looks, a garage door with glass panels can give you some solar gain, and the floor is a thermal mass. A local fire department did that and it really saved money drying out all their protective gear and hoses between uses, It paid for itself in just that. Consult a local energy expert to see if you want insulation below the garage floor slab. Your garage wall and door-window insulation will be a variable. You can also ask people in your town how it helps their vehicles and things like having a drain and washing the salt if they use that off the car under carrage.

A heated garage is a good place as you mention for hobbies. You can put wood shop or metal shop tools on wheels and park them to the side when not in use. It's a good place to put your Klippel. :)
 
We have radiant heat in the slab in our garage. A heated garage was "required" due to a room (the hifi room!) above the garage. We keep the garage at 54 degrees Fahrenheit. Insulated garage doors; the garage holds heat very well overall. The concrete slab makes heating it up very efficient, too.
It's wonderful, with one small exception: driving in a snowy car generates lots of moisture. :)
Getting into a warm-ish car on a bitter day makes it worthwhile, though.
Today, for example. ;)
20241223_092733.jpg

(parking lot photo after I picked up the rib roast for Christmas dinner :))

We had the house built in 2011-12. If I were doing the same today, I'd have put a high efficiency heat pump (minisplit) out there, so there was zero concern about heat failure and a freeze-up. One can use closed radiant systems with antifreeze, but they are less efficient than just water (good ol' thermodynamics spoilin' the party again). We have two good-sized PV arrays on the south-facing roof, so electricity is essentially free for us. We've added a couple of mini-splits in recent years, mostly for cooling, and they're excellent. They literally didn't exist when the house was designed and planned.
 
We recently improved the insulation of our 1998 home. This involved additional high end insulation in the already insulated crawl space, and that made a real difference in comfort. Combined with significantly better insulation of our flat roof (now 140 mm Pir sheets), it reduced our gas consumption by about 30%. So insulation makes a real difference. We also have (warm water) floor heating, and that adds enormously to the comfort, and is a requisite for the heat pump that we installed 10 months ago.
So my recommendation would be to have the best insulation that is technically feasible. If you are building a new home better insulation does not cost much more. Much of the cost is labour, and not materials. As for the garage, I would only ensure that the temperature does not drop below freezing. Like most people in the Netherlnds, we do not have a garage (only heated bicycle storage). The car lives outside, and modern cars do not mind, at least in the Netherlands.
 
If the garage door faces South and it is is your budget and looks, a garage door with glass panels can give you some solar gain, and the floor is a thermal mass.
Our garage doors face south, and I actually consider it a PITA. Yes, absolutely, when the sun comes out in the winter (which where we live is most days) the garage easily gets to 70F or higher during the day. But in the summer, yuck. The garage gets into the 90s, and working in the garage in the afternoon becomes too uncomfortable, especially with bright sun shining in. I wish my garage doors faced northeast. :)
 
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I had this exact situation and chose the option of thermostatically controlled electric heaters closer to the floor, connected to 220. Worked great here in there frozen North (Canada). Even though my garage was already set up with a gas line this was a more cost effective solution as I as well no longer used my garage for "crafts".
 
For $3000 you could probably just get a mini-split heat pump installed for the garage if you want some climate control in there.
 
We recently improved the insulation of our 1998 home. This involved additional high end insulation in the already insulated crawl space, and that made a real difference in comfort. Combined with significantly better insulation of our flat roof (now 140 mm Pir sheets), it reduced our gas consumption by about 30%. So insulation makes a real difference. We also have (warm water) floor heating, and that adds enormously to the comfort, and is a requisite for the heat pump that we installed 10 months ago.
So my recommendation would be to have the best insulation that is technically feasible. If you are building a new home better insulation does not cost much more. Much of the cost is labour, and not materials. As for the garage, I would only ensure that the temperature does not drop below freezing. Like most people in the Netherlnds, we do not have a garage (only heated bicycle storage). The car lives outside, and modern cars do not mind, at least in the Netherlands.
What do you mean by 'the best insulation'? Do you actually mean go for the most R-value/ least U-value? Polyisocyanurate and extruded polystyrene are the 'best' insulations in terms of r-value per unit thickness, but definitely not the best when taking into account combustibility and flame spread. Rockwool and fiberglass do better in those respects. And urethane foam is also an option, but the need for open- versus closed-cell depends on some other factors, primarily climate zone:

So, are you in the US? If so, approximately where? This will indicate where the air barrier should be located, and if a vapor retarder should be used (and the class of vapor retarder).

Back to the original question, I am 100% in favor of a heated garage. But I also think it's best if the slab can be heated, versus hanging heaters at the ceiling. But I am looking at it from the perspective of someone who would spend a bit of time out there. If you will only be in the garage to access the car than ceiling-level heaters are fine -- the main thing is they will add comfort to the space above. Also, any heating system will likely be a good selling point down the road.
 
A couple of things to think about.
1. A mini split or through the wall heat pump can freeze up. Being from NY you know the wet driving rain and snow followed by sub freezing temps. I'm west of Chicago and have had it happen to me.

2. A gas heater in the garage can be used as a backup if the main furnace in the house goes out. Just open the door and put a fan in it to keep the house from freezing up

That said I do have gas heat and AC in my garage. The garage is 45F during the winter. The AC is only for knocking down the humidity when I have to be out there during the summer.
 
If there is no need to use the garage in the winter for anything other than parking then I would skip the garage heating. I have a bedroom partially above my unheated garage and have had no issues (I'm in Canada).

If anything allocate the money towards upgrading the insulation to be above R30. Added benefit is the additional sound proofing in the event that someone is using the garage early in the morning or late at night and people sleeping in the bedrooms. That's the only issue I've experienced.
 
A couple of things to think about.
1. A mini split or through the wall heat pump can freeze up. Being from NY you know the wet driving rain and snow followed by sub freezing temps. I'm west of Chicago and have had it happen to me.
How old was this mini-split? Modern units should have no issues with freezing up, as far as I'm aware. Worst-case is they run a dethaw cycle by running in cooling mode (with the fan on the interior unit off) to heat up the coils until the moisture melts off.
 
I am in the Netherlands. What is best depends on the situation, of course, but in the OP's case it is a new home, I understand. Dutch homes are typically a mix of brick and concrete, so fire risk is smaller than with wooden homes. In our case, the roof insulation is indeed polyisocyanurate, which is hardly a risk given the construction of the house. At least, that is what the building codes say. The new 140 mm roof insulation is R=6 (R=34.5 in the imperial system) which is more than good in our climate, and was also the feasible maximum in this existing home. For the crawl space the combined insulation of R=7.5 (R=43 in the imperial system) of the existing styrofoam insulation of R=2.5 (R=14 imperial) and the new reflective foil with an R=5 (R=28 imperial) is fine for us in our quite mild climate compared to the US East coast, and also represented the feasible maximum. All this made a real difference, and I would recommend everyone to prioritize insulation.
 
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