Headphones sensitivity vs needed power for bass

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Your PC soundcard may have a higher than usual output resistance. The phone will have a very low output resistance.
The M50 has boosted bass and is closed which helps outdoors as well.
There is tone control on the phone so why not use that ?

Definitely, Titanium HD has 35Ω output impedance that underdamps the clear considerably.
Never fiddled with the phone because it is nonsensical to try to use the clear outdoors, it's an open design.
As for indoor listening: frankly put: I just don't get enough volume on the phone. *shrug* If i push it further the sound distorts.
The test has been done indoors.

Maybe the source is overdriving the Asgards inputs?
Holy crap that is some mean bass in there. OOF. I can't stand more than 15% volume on my soundcard.
How on earth can you withstand going near the max of a headamp like the Asgard?!
Both tracks sound completely clean.

 

[solderdude]

I suspect the issue was not so much the Asgard but rather the Bifrost.

The noise in the AQ NH is easily explained. with 99dB/mW = 115 dB/V is pretty sensitive.
The low sensitivity does not kill (mute) the noise.
The lower noise level just drops below your audibility threshold.

Add to that the ADI-2 has 10dB better S/N ratio then there is a whopping 20dB lower noise level between RME + Arya and Asgard + AQ NH.

 

[solderdude]

Definitely, Titanium HD has 35Ω output impedance that underdamps the clear considerably.

It isn't the damping that is an issue. Its voltage division that is the culprit. There is a 2.9dB bass boost while using that soundcard. Luckily the impedance is narrow and at a low frequency so only lifts the low bass and doesn't 'muddy' the mids so a higher output resistance is actually desirable at lower listening levels.

 

[Vini darko]

It has easily audible hiss when I connect Audioquest Nighthawk to it and nothing is played. RME is silent while Schiit produces hiss in headphones. It does not happen with FiFiMAN Arya. I guess Arya's low effectiveness kills this noise.

Regarding my sub bass test - Schiit is just one huge distortion when close to max volume in hi-gain. Bass sounds like videoconference with 1000 ping. I used all the same remaining gear with RME: same file, network player, headphones and cables. Schiit Bisrost 4490 Sigma-Delta + Asgard 2 just did not handle it. Replaced both with RME and sound was perfectly fine. I have used this song:

and this one:

. They are far from normal songs and it was definitely too loud for longer listening than a few seconds. RME somehow handles it while Schiit does not.

My phone handled those np. Good fun tracks.
With regards to your schiit stack. Maybe try using the RME dac to feed the asgard and find out wich of the two schiit items is struggling.

 

[raistlin65]

I wonder why a lot of audiophiles claim their headphones sound dull without amps offering 5-7W of power. They use Focal Clear and Audeze LCD-2 and other models with sensitivity above 100dB. Sounds like a nonsense.

In addition to what solderdude said, confirmation bias easily be a factor because they believe it will sound better because they paid more money for it. This can have a powerful influence over perceived differences versus actual audible differences.

Read this to learn more http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html

 

[Karister]

I did as suggested - connected Asgard 2 to RME ADI-2 DAC line out which I set to -3dB. The background noise was still there in Audioquest Nighthawk. When left at high volume in high gain Asgard 2 was producing audible noise. Sounds a bit like ground loop hum. When I connected Audioquest Nighthawk to RME it was silent. I plugged all devices to the same power strip.
Furthermore, Asgard 2 was again unable to drive HiFiMAN Arya in mentioned before sub bass boosted songs. Instead of low bass I was hearing cracking at hi volume. While connected to RME, HiFiMAN Arya was producing deep, powerfull bas and whole headphones were shaking on my head during playback. With no distortions.

A year ago I was looking for an advice here regarding Schiit audio gear for HiFiMAN Arya. Everyone said RME. I bought Schiit because it is silver and shiny. Now I see (hear actually) the difference. Of course during normal listening probably I would not distinguish them in a blind test (provided RME DSP is off). But when pushed to extremes, RME is far superior to Schiit.

 

[Vini darko]

I did as suggested - connected Asgard 2 to RME ADI-2 DAC line out which I set to -3dB. The background noise was still there in Audioquest Nighthawk. When left at high volume in high gain Asgard 2 was producing audible noise. Sounds a bit like ground loop hum. When I connected Audioquest Nighthawk to RME it was silent. I plugged all devices to the same power strip.
Furthermore, Asgard 2 was again unable to drive HiFiMAN Arya in mentioned before sub bass boosted songs. Instead of low bass I was hearing cracking at hi volume. While connected to RME, HiFiMAN Arya was producing deep, powerfull bas and whole headphones were shaking on my head during playback. With no distortions.

A year ago I was looking for an advice here regarding Schiit audio gear for HiFiMAN Arya. Everyone said RME. I bought Schiit because it is silver and shiny. Now I see (hear actually) the difference. Of course during normal listening probably I would not distinguish them in a blind test (provided RME DSP is off). But when pushed to extremes, RME is far superior to Schiit.

RME for the win. Schiit going on ebay I guess.

 

[Vini darko]

I just took look though the measuments for the asgard, it does have rapidly rising distortion with volume at high gain.

 

[solderdude]

Furthermore, Asgard 2 was again unable to drive HiFiMAN Arya in mentioned before sub bass boosted songs. Instead of low bass I was hearing cracking at hi volume.

Maybe this is the famous 'Moffat bass' ?
I can offer no explanation without any measurements or hands-on trouble shooting.
35 Ohm purely resistive load should not be a problem for amps like that

 

[solderdude]

I just took look though the measuments for the asgard, it does have rapidly rising distortion with volume at high gain.

It is a current feedback design which tends to not work as well on high gain. That's the price one pays for high dV/dt
Is the issue also there on low gain or can the required levels not be reached in that case ?

 

[KeithPhantom]

RME is far superior to Schiit.

Schiit is doing pretty good these days (bought a Magni Heresy over a JDS Atom because looks and slightly better measurements in some areas I care). Now, if they released a Yggdrasil Heresy just to show the best measurements they can get out of a DAC, I'd be pleased (even inclined to buy it). About the Asgard, even this amp could power a purely resistive 35 ohm headphone, maybe you have a defective unit.

 

[Karister]

I cannot hear anything when going max vol in low gain. It is silent. In high gain I can hear hiss when Asgard 2 input is not connected any device and it transforms into lower pitched hum when Bifrost 4490 is connected to Asgard's input. No source connected to Bifrost. Additionally, switching between low and high gain causes a pop sound in headphones even when volume is set to 0. I am aware that reason of all these cannot be guessed without measurements. Currently I am not using Schiit and it was never an issue during normal listening sessions. I just did this testing out of curiosity. It will wait for a new owner in a closet.

 

[solderdude]

I have used this song:

Below the spectrum of this song

This is not your 'normal' spectrum. Low frequencies usually are about +10 to +15dB above content around 1kHz.
In the music here it is around +40dB.
This is bass-head material pur sang and no regular mastering.

 

[dasdoing]

Below the spectrum of this song
View attachment 72384

This is not your 'normal' spectrum. Low frequencies usually are about +10 to +15dB above content around 1kHz.
In the music here it is around +40dB.

this type of youtube "contibuitions" boost the bass on EQ (as if you couldn't do this in you audio backend lol)
check out the original

EDIT: also the balance in this video is off

 

[dasdoing]

this one has a very deep note without EQ boosted by kids. I think a Gb0 (23.12Hz) 1m31s

 

[ernestcarl]

this one has a very deep note without EQ boosted by kids. I think a Gb0 (23.12Hz) 1m31s

Thank you! That's much, much better.