Headphones for Critical Listening

[LevityProject]

I'm looking for serious recommendations for Headphones that can be used for critical listening. I am a condo dweller, and I am trying to develop a mastering career where I live so that local studios have an audiophile option without doing it themselves or offloading things to AI (which is typically unsatisfactory). My ability to use speakers with the kind of frequency response I need is unfortunately limited, other than to sometimes use for brief quality checks without a sub.

Here is what I am considering (for each of these, I would use corrective EQ as suggested or a sonarworks/EQ combination based on the reviews to tweak for my particular ears). I also have an appointment to get my ears checked to see what their frequency response is, and I'm pretty excited about that

Here's what I've narrowed it down to:
Sennheiser HD 650 or Drop 6xx since the Drop version is the same for well over half the price. The 650s also seem to be a forum fave.
Moondrop Chu II - not over-ear, but I'm interested due to the potential wow factor.
HifiMan HE400SE - a very interesting offering. A couple of simple EQ adjustments make these "very high fidelity" ... as high fidelity as the 650s?

Are there any other suggestions for what could be used as a set of critical listening headphones? The golfing panther reviews identify many options, but I wonder about nuances in fidelity and build quality.

Ideally, I'd like to get a good pair of open-back headphones that do the job, as open-backs come recommended in subjective reviews for critical listening (especially the HD 650s). Sonarworks in particular swears by these headphones. But .... I'm a sucker for good value. If I don't need to spend $300-$600 on a pair of headphones, I'd rather not ... ha!

 

[alex-z]

I would rule out the HD650, they are bass deficient and the distortion in that region makes adding it via EQ inadvisable.

The HE400SE is a great budget pick. The bass reaches deeper and has more headroom for EQ. Objectively the mid-range isn't as good as the HD650, but you won't notice that until you are at hearing damage levels.

Having a decent pair of IEM's is great for judging frequency balance and just hearing raw detail, although you won't get the same spatial effects of over-ear headphones. I would get the Truthear x Crinnacle RED, use them alongside the HD400SE.

Truthear x Crinacle Zero:RED IEM Review

This is a review, listening tests and detailed measurements of Truthear x Crinacle Zero:RED IEM. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $55. I was relieved that they are more mahogany/darker red than what the name implies. Compared to the previous Zero version, they are supposed to have...

www.audiosciencereview.com

A typical audiogram won't tell you much. They usually only test 250-8000Hz, and even 10-20dB of loss is considered normal at high frequencies. You can try to develop EQ around an audiogram, but it won't translate properly between over-ear, IEM, and speakers because there are differing levels of reflected vs direct sound..

 

[Anthony LoFi]

I'm looking for serious recommendations for Headphones that can be used for critical listening. I am a condo dweller, and I am trying to develop a mastering career where I live so that local studios have an audiophile option without doing it themselves or offloading things to AI (which is typically unsatisfactory). My ability to use speakers with the kind of frequency response I need is unfortunately limited, other than to sometimes use for brief quality checks without a sub.

Here is what I am considering (for each of these, I would use corrective EQ as suggested or a sonarworks/EQ combination based on the reviews to tweak for my particular ears). I also have an appointment to get my ears checked to see what their frequency response is, and I'm pretty excited about that

Here's what I've narrowed it down to:
Sennheiser HD 650 or Drop 6xx since the Drop version is the same for well over half the price. The 650s also seem to be a forum fave.
Moondrop Chu II - not over-ear, but I'm interested due to the potential wow factor.
HifiMan HE400SE - a very interesting offering. A couple of simple EQ adjustments make these "very high fidelity" ... as high fidelity as the 650s?

Are there any other suggestions for what could be used as a set of critical listening headphones? The golfing panther reviews identify many options, but I wonder about nuances in fidelity and build quality.

Ideally, I'd like to get a good pair of open-back headphones that do the job, as open-backs come recommended in subjective reviews for critical listening (especially the HD 650s). Sonarworks in particular swears by these headphones. But .... I'm a sucker for good value. If I don't need to spend $300-$600 on a pair of headphones, I'd rather not ... ha!

Welcome Levity,
Could I suggest the Sennheiser HD 25-1
They have been a datum for sound recordists (TV/Movies) for many years and are still I believe a current model still made by Sennheiser Germany.
I still have a pair that are 20 years old and take a bit of misuse.
Spares are still available and a have two types of cushion material. Vinyl or a synthetic velvet
They measure relatively flat and don't or aren't EQed to a Harmon curve as this is something when Mastering you don't want.

 

[solderdude]

HD25 are primarily for monitoring and are not intended for music reproduction/sound evaluation/critical listening.

For critical listening the HD560S comes to mind (in the medium price class for an open headphone)

 

[Dunring]

The Moondrop Chu 2 will impress you, I travel with them and an Apple 3.5mm adapter. If you have headroom to eq, I really like the HE5XX and Hifiman Deva pro, easy to eq and the Thieaudio Ghost is a great alternative to the HD650. I have all of them and they're a great value.

 

[staticV3]

The 490Pro gets high praise from oratory1990:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1810254278306492647

Here it is compared to the 560S:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1810564765497917732

For mixing, check out Waves NX, which includes headphone frequency response correction directly from @oratory1990, as well as convolution room sims.

 

[zonk]

The Sennheiser HD490 pro is about 390 Euros.

For a bit more you can get those three:
Sennheiser HD560S 120€
Hifiman Sundara 262€
Thruthear Zero RED 54€

 

[DVDdoug]

This is from Recording Magazine:

Can I mix on headphones?

No. But in all seriousness, headphones can be a secret weapon and it really doesn’t matter what they sound like…

Over time, after constantly listening back to my work from different studios on those headphones I really started to learn them. They became sort of a compass. Wherever I went… It became a pattern for me to reference these headphones to see if what I was hearing was “right”…

I learned them, I knew them, I trusted them. It didn’t matter whether or not I loved them…

So, can you mix on headphones? Probably. I just think you really need to put some time into learning them first…

 

[Anthony LoFi]

Hi Levity,
As you can see there are many forum members who will suggest certain avenues for consideration. There are a few "experts who know all" that will counter claim on topics which is to be expected. The forum is very heavily biased in hubris.
You may be best to consult manufacturers on which of their product range is most suitable for critical accuracy purposes and possibly talk to educators of the music recording industry.
All the best.

 

[LevityProject]

I would rule out the HD650, they are bass deficient and the distortion in that region makes adding it via EQ inadvisable.

The HE400SE is a great budget pick. The bass reaches deeper and has more headroom for EQ. Objectively the mid-range isn't as good as the HD650, but you won't notice that until you are at hearing damage levels.

Having a decent pair of IEM's is great for judging frequency balance and just hearing raw detail, although you won't get the same spatial effects of over-ear headphones. I would get the Truthear x Crinnacle RED, use them alongside the HD400SE.

the HE400se and Truth Crinnacle RED both seem like viable options as a combo, although the SE400S is listed by Sonarworks as for "Listening only". I wonder if the SE has better QC and a listening experience that doesn't vary from unit to unit. this uncertainty might rule them out for true critical listening (but doesn't rule them out for hifi pleasure listening).

The distortion in sub-bass is high for the 650s, but is it audible at all listening levels? It's also high in the DT990s but I can't hear it unless I crank the volume to nearly ear-damaging levels. As I've been doing more looking into things, Sonarworks recommends the Dt990s if they are calibrated for mixing and mastering (with the caveat that sub-bass in bass heavy genres will be tricky to judge).

The 490Pro gets high praise from oratory1990:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1810254278306492647

Here it is compared to the 560S:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1810564765497917732

For mixing, check out Waves NX, which includes headphone frequency response correction directly from @oratory1990, as well as convolution room sims.

That's interesting the 490 pros get high praise from an industry insider .... they don't come recommended without EQ according to the raw test data here, but the HD650s in comparison have a history of sounding reasonably HiFi even without EQ. And with the mixing Pads on the 490s, bass response is, from what I am seeing, really timid. I do like their minimal distortion though in comparison to both the Hd650s and the DT990s. And that is something to note. Does the 490 recco maybe come down to a combination of lower distortion, good midrange representation, and then perhaps the tuning of Nx does a good job of creating neutral tonality?

I will admit, after doing more reading and comparing, I'm probably more stuck now than I was before hahaha. My Beyerdynamic DT990s are simply unusable out of the box, but they sound wonderful when tuned with Sonarworks. And with a little tweak at 3khz, even more so to my ears. but that's all very subjective. The objective test for me is whether I can translate that tone I'm hearing into some excellent song masters.

 

[LevityProject]

This is from Recording Magazine:

The answer is yes though (Recording magazine recognizes it eventually) with the caveat that if they at least don't follow some sort of Harman curve, it will be nearly impossible to judge the soundstage and spatial qualities of a mix.

I've been mixing on headphones for a few years, and while I'd say that it's possible (especially with the advent of Sonarworks and now with more headphones recognizing Harman curves), it still should not be exclusive to use headphones, even with room simulation. My mixes on speakers alone were decent, and got better when I started checking them on calibrated headphones. It's all a bit of a game of "what can you afford and how adaptable are you to referencing on different systems and taking notes".
Of course, this applies less to those looking for pleasure audiophile listening. I'm doing something more dangerous

Welcome Levity,
Could I suggest the Sennheiser HD 25-1
They have been a datum for sound recordists (TV/Movies) for many years and are still I believe a current model still made by Sennheiser Germany.
I still have a pair that are 20 years old and take a bit of misuse.
Spares are still available and a have two types of cushion material. Vinyl or a synthetic velvet
They measure relatively flat and don't or aren't EQed to a Harmon curve as this is something when Mastering you don't want.

Can you explain why a Harman curve isn't something you'd want in headphones when mastering? Even Sonarworks calibration for headphones includes their own curve that they feel is better than the Harman curve. There isn't consensus on which is better, but the data seems to point to the idea that "flat sounding on headphones" is objectively not the same curve as "flat sounding on speakers in a well treated room".

And here's the curve ball: A "well-treated room with good speakers", and "neutral sounding" is not the same as completely flat It's possible to get a neutral sound even in a reflective room, but that is not at all "flat" in terms of the physics of the sound leaving the speakers and reflecting all over the room. It's similar with headphones - a completely flat tuning on headphones is not going to be perceptually neutral, because our inner ears are reflection chambers. We just don't notice this when hearing speakers because the sound isn't being projected directly into the chamber like it is with IEMs and over ears. instead, with speakers we hear the reflections of the room much more than anything happening inside of our ear canals. At least, this is what I am reasoning to be the case ...

My current thought is that if a pair of IEMs, a set of Open Back Headphones and at least two sets of speakers (car and studio) all have the same perceptually neutral tonal balance, that's a recipe for success ... it could make it quite possible to judge mix decisions on any one of them and compare with the others to verify, thus creating a systematic approach to mixing or mastering. That's what I'm chasing

 

[solderdude]

For mixing HD490PRO with mixer pads or the OLLO S5X are viable options for open over-ear headphones.
ATH-R70X (may not be comfortable) and FiiO FT3 (pleather pads) are alternatives.
All costing more than $/€ 300 though.
Also the DT1990 (with EQ/filter) is an option but even more expensive.
From hifiman the Sundara (with EQ) is an option. The HE400SE is a cheap alternative.