Headphones (<$500) with un-EQd frequency response closest to neutral speakers in a treated room?

[Leiker535]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm going to look into these now.

As for the challenges with meeting the bass end of the Harman curve, that would actually be one area I could compromise with a bit, since when I need to use these without EQ, it'll often be while playing electric guitar where low-end below about 85 Hz is not really a major priority.

For real-time monitoring (as in playing the instrument), I'd look for closed headphones only. The isolation really makes a difference in quiet room. When using the HD 600 or the dt880 I could always hear the plucking of the strings when I played the guitar.

Either the k371 or the aeons would do fine. The former are more universal (the can play from anywhere) but can be fiddly with comfort and fit, and are a bit plasticy, while the latter are source reliant but a pillow on your head.

 

[dumbsuck]

Hi, I own some of the headphones mentioned here and some others, all below $500. What I'm looking for in a headphone is mostly neutral sound with naturally sounding midrange and treble (no grittiness, sharpness etc in vocals and cymbal sounds, no sibilance, general smoothness with detail intact) with slight bass boost, but nothing overpowering. Short version is that after owning Beyer DT880 and 990 (600 ohm), DT770 (600 and 80 ohm), Senn HD650, 58X and Momentum 3 (and others), Fidelio X2HR, Denon AH-D2000 and AH-D5200 and E-MU Teak and Walnut, the most happy I am with is the E-MU Teak. It sounds like it's a level above all the others, especially when it comes to dynamics and "punchiness" of the sound. Some of my friends who listened to them disliked them for having "too much bass", which might be the case, they do sound like they have the most bass from all the HP's in my collection (except maybe for the Momentum 3), I like it though. Most people who heard them, however, loved the sound. I love their sound.

If I had to recommend "neutral" headphones to someone, I would recommend the Sennheiser HD 650 or 58X (or 6XX - same as 650 but cheaper, only on Drop, 58X is also Drop-exclusive). The 650's might be a bit more "smooth" and "natural" in treble than the 58X but generally I think I would have trouble telling them apart in a blind test.
I would definitely not recommend the DT880 (or any of the Beyers I've had - DT990 or 770) - the Beyers simply have too much high frequencies to be neutral, they sound thin and sharp and "crispy". If you don't mind slightly added bass, then I would recommend the Teaks or AH-D5200. The Denons have less dynamic sound, more upper midrange/lower treble and less prominent bass. The Teaks sound more smooth. However I think they are not exactly built for studio, they might break if you don't treat them carefully. The Denons feel way more sturdy.

I haven't heard the 560S, but have heard good things about them, but they seem to have an ugly peak in upper midrange, which might make them boost the "presence" area in vocals and electric guitar, for example. The K371 look generally very good, from what I've read about them. Haven't hear them neither, though.

Crinacle measured most of the headphones mentioned here, including your R70x, so you can have a look at his graphs, compare the headphones' frequency response and try to decide based on those. https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/graphtool/

 

[IAtaman]

I think if any headphone could claim what you are asking for in a way which most people in this forum would agree, they would ask for more than $500 for sure Like, a lot more.

While we are at making suggestion, mine would be Sundara if the music you are working with can survive the bass droop.

 

[Another_Moon]

We are waiting for the Sennheiser HD 600S2 (and especially the review from Amir). But they cost more than $500. Sorry, off topic

 

[Basstölpel]

The Ollo Audio S5X could fit the bill.
Meant to be a mixing/mastering studio headphone, tuned for flattish base with good extension.
Diyheaven (Solderdude) already measured IT

S5X (1.0)

back to OLLO Audioback to measurementshome published: Feb-03-2023, updated Feb-25-2023 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons fl…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

and the company releases measurements themselves.

 

[Deleted member 60987]

Hey everyone! As the title describes, I'm looking for headphones that in their stock/un-EQd state, have a frequency response most like neutral studio monitors in a treated room. For reference, I'm a musician and audio engineer, so accurate nearfield studio monitors in a well treated room are my 'normal'.

Why no EQ? Because I'll often need to use these plugged directly into random things like keyboards or guitar amp simulation devices.

I know the subject of what makes headphones sound like speakers in a room is a complicated and unsettled one, but from what I know so far, the Harman curve target is a good candidate, perhaps the best we currently have.

Based on that, I've so far been looking closely at the Sennheiser HD560s and the AKG K371 (which I don't feel as confident in the build, fit and comfort of). I already have the Audio Technica R70x, which in its natural state does not do what I'm describing, although it does sound excellent with EQ calibration and room response simulation when I'm mixing. I need something to replace the R70x that does a significantly better job at sounding (frequency response-wise) like studio monitors in a control room.

How's the HD560s at this? Is there something else that outdoes it within the ~$500 range?

681, or 668B by Superlux: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/superlux/hd-681

 

[ZolaIII]

681, or 668B by Superlux: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/superlux/hd-681

Not in a milion years.

Superlux HD668B Review (headphone)

This is a review, detailed measurements and equalization of Superlux HD668B semi-open headphone. It was kindly purchased by a member new and drop shipped to me. It costs as little as $40 including free shipping on Amazon. Needless to say, you are looking at all plastic headphone here: It...

www.audiosciencereview.com

A tip; adding some wet reverberation will help with a good headphones tho it won't be same (ever).

 

[Deleted member 60987]

Hey everyone! As the title describes, I'm looking for headphones that in their stock/un-EQd state, have a frequency response most like neutral studio monitors in a treated room. For reference, I'm a musician and audio engineer, so accurate nearfield studio monitors in a well treated room are my 'normal'.

Why no EQ? Because I'll often need to use these plugged directly into random things like keyboards or guitar amp simulation devices.

I know the subject of what makes headphones sound like speakers in a room is a complicated and unsettled one, but from what I know so far, the Harman curve target is a good candidate, perhaps the best we currently have.

Based on that, I've so far been looking closely at the Sennheiser HD560s and the AKG K371 (which I don't feel as confident in the build, fit and comfort of). I already have the Audio Technica R70x, which in its natural state does not do what I'm describing, although it does sound excellent with EQ calibration and room response simulation when I'm mixing. I need something to replace the R70x that does a significantly better job at sounding (frequency response-wise) like studio monitors in a control room.

How's the HD560s at this? Is there something else that outdoes it within the ~$500 range?

Not in a milion years.

Superlux HD668B Review (headphone)

This is a review, detailed measurements and equalization of Superlux HD668B semi-open headphone. It was kindly purchased by a member new and drop shipped to me. It costs as little as $40 including free shipping on Amazon. Needless to say, you are looking at all plastic headphone here: It...

www.audiosciencereview.com

A tip; adding some wet reverberation will help with a good headphones tho it won't be same (ever).

I don't have the 668B, only the 681. And they are comparable to DT770s: https://www.querytools.net/Images/HeadphoneNeutrality.jpg

 

[ZolaIII]

@BVL read review thread little more. Those two are very similar (enclosure and same driver's). Not even with a complex EQ their bass sounds as it should. DT's other than 990 aren't great regarding treble (lacking). From closed back's with replaceable cable easy to drive he could try with Denon AH-D5200 tho they aren't very isolating. Again headphones don't sound as speakers, you can get closer to that by using wet reverberation on them and that's about it.

 

[Deleted member 60987]

@BVL read review thread little more. Those two are very similar (enclosure and same driver's). Not even with a complex EQ their bass sounds as it should. DT's other than 990 aren't great regarding treble (lacking). From closed back's with replaceable cable easy to drive he could try with Denon AH-D5200 tho they aren't very isolating. Again headphones don't sound as speakers, you can get closer to that by using wet reverberation on them and that's about it.

DT770s are about the most recommended by engineers next to M50X and MDR 7506. Personally, I found them a bit boring and underwhelming initially but have gotten used to them if I put enough juice through them. But what do you like, and what do you use them for? I use headphones for recording and mixing and am mainly just interest in accuracy. For years I used the Sony MDR to record and they have never been too far off, though I have a lot more headphones now. Other highly recommended headpones for recording are 280 Pros but I find them unusable for reference. I suspect it is all EDM makers recommending them, but I dont generally record 4 tracks. I use 18 of guitar, bass drums and multiple sounds from keyboards so I notice when 280 Pros are throwing out some unworkable low frequency boom and mud. And admit having a slight bias towards brightness and clarity.

 

[ZolaIII]

@BVL my mixing/mastering days are behind me. Well it depends what do you see/understand as accurate? What is your preference? I used to mix with mentioned Sonys, NS10S and even used IEM's for lo - sub bass as Sonys roll down there. Neither were neutral but I whose able to do 70% job done fast alone on bright mid busted NS10's. There is no perfect gear and getting to know your gear good is the main thing.
For example Denon AH-D5200 I mentioned have slightly boosted bass for my taste, good mid bass, excellent mids and nice highs. For closed back's they are pretty close to open back Sennheiser 600 series (old better high impedance one's) which is quite an achievement for closed back's. I recommend them as he mentioned Senn's and didn't like leaking. Didn't want deliberately to recommend AKG-K371 as they won't last him long.
The pads for Denon AH-D5200 that pretty much resolve bass boost and everything else:

Alpha Pads (genuine lamb-leather)

Alpha Pad ear pads are lamb-leather pads for Alpha and Mad Dog headphones. They are also popular with Fostex THXX and other headphones.

danclarkaudio.com

Competitions:

 

[Deleted member 60987]

@BVL my mixing/mastering days are behind me. Well it depends what do you see/understand as accurate? What is your preference? I used to mix with mentioned Sonys, NS10S and even used IEM's for lo - sub bass as Sonys roll down there. Neither were neutral but I whose able to do 70% job done fast alone on bright mid busted NS10's. There is no perfect gear and getting to know your gear good is the main thing.
For example Denon AH-D5200 I mentioned have slightly boosted bass for my taste, good mid bass, excellent mids and nice highs. For closed back's they are pretty close to open back Sennheiser 600 series (old better high impedance one's) which is quite an achievement for closed back's. I recommend them as he mentioned Senn's and didn't like leaking. Didn't want deliberately to recommend AKG-K371 as they won't last him long.
The pads for Denon AH-D5200 that pretty much resolve bass boost and everything else:

Alpha Pads (genuine lamb-leather)

Alpha Pad ear pads are lamb-leather pads for Alpha and Mad Dog headphones. They are also popular with Fostex THXX and other headphones.

danclarkaudio.com

Competitions:
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I'm not about to spend $700 on headphones for home recording when I've gotten by for years on $80 Sony MDR 7506. And added a host of new ones for less than that. M50X, Dt770, Superlux, Samson, Philips, Rockville. All with fairly flat responses. The Sennheiser 599 had the flattest but I hated the lack of clarity and sound separation.

 

[Hatto]

You're looking for THE product that was developed for this sole purpose: AKG K-1000 earspeakers

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/akg-k-1000.php

They're extinct and priced above $500 if you can find them, but still...

 

[ZolaIII]

I'm not about to spend $700 on headphones for home recording when I've gotten by for years on $80 Sony MDR 7506. And added a host of new ones for less than that. M50X, Dt770, Superlux, Samson, Philips, Rockville. All with fairly flat responses. The Sennheiser 599 had the flattest but I hated the lack of clarity and sound separation.

Well that's you and AH-D5200 can be found for lot less money (400~450 $/€), if you search hard enough.
A peace of advice neither of those you mentioned don't have even close to target response including HD599 that were far worse then some lower tier 5xx series one's so read/see a lot of measurements (use competitive measurements with different HATS when possible) to learn. Learn about measurement limitations and so on.

 

[Deleted member 60987]

Well that's you and AH-D5200 can be found for lot less money (400~450 $/€), if you search hard enough.
A peace of advice neither of those you mentioned don't have even close to target response including HD599 that were far worse then some lower tier 5xx series one's so read/see a lot of measurements (use competitive measurements with different HATS when possible) to learn. Learn about measurement limitations and so on.

I've heard many engineers recommend headphones. Thus the DT770, MX50 and MDR7506 purchases. They are the most mentioned, along with Pro990, 770s, AKG 701, 702s and 600s. Budget constraints prevent me of seeing the value of $400 headphones. I have a slew of studio standards now.

 

[markanini]

I've heard many engineers recommend headphones.

So did buying headphones that engineers endorsed pay off in your opinion?

 

[Deleted member 60987]

So did buying headphones that engineers endorsed pay off in your opinion?

Yes. Other than the 280 Pro. But I recorded with only Sony MDR 7506 and those were sufficient to get good sound in a home studio. I just have much more options for listening now. DT770s, ATH M50X, Superlux 681, Shure SRH 440, Philips SPH 9500, Samsung SR850, AKG K52 and 240, and Rockville 681. But like I said, I've made music for years using the basic Sony MDRs for recording and mixing:

 

[ZolaIII]

I've heard many engineers recommend headphones. Thus the DT770, MX50 and MDR7506 purchases. They are the most mentioned, along with Pro990, 770s, AKG 701, 702s and 600s. Budget constraints prevent me of seeing the value of $400 headphones. I have a slew of studio standards now.

That's probably why we have so much broken materials in the first place. If you think dule headphones with generally bad highs are way to go I wish you luck.
Actually it's best not to use headphones for highs mastering at all. Best is to use good slightly bright speakers so that you know fur sure that you won't left them to bright. Tool is only tool how much you know to use it. I personally did only separation, low end (under 100 Hz and bass check in generally to 250 Hz) and general check (for headphones) on headphones. Mids and highs I did on NS10M along with lo end gear transistence. It worked great and fast when I really learned to work with NS10's.

Only Abbey Road did a proper job.

 

[Deleted member 60987]

That's probably why we have so much broken materials in the first place. If you think dule headphones with generally bad highs are way to go I wish you luck.
Actually it's best not to use headphones for highs mastering at all. Best is to use good slightly bright speakers so that you know fur sure that you won't left them to bright. Tool is only tool how much you know to use it. I personally did only separation, low end (under 100 Hz and bass check in generally to 250 Hz) and general check (for headphones) on headphones. Mids and highs I did on NS10M along with lo end gear transistence. It worked great and fast when I really learned to work with NS10's.

Only Abbey Road did a proper job.

Alan Parsons uses Sony MDR 7506 to record. Same as me the past few years.

 

[ZolaIII]

Alan Parsons uses Sony MDR 7506 to record. Same as me the past few years.

Alan uses what they give him and NS10's are obligatory to him even now (he uses Genelac's as main monitors). His amount of knowledge eneabes him to do this all do now he does need young blood for what he can't hear anymore (he is down to 10 KHz or even less now). Regarding equipment to quote him you get what you paid for. Point of this place is to point you out what you can get for your money and get you as far from snake oil as possible.
Future on you will rarely see him with any headphones at all. Which is somehow expected from pioneer of surround sound.

ASSR - MCTS Munich

You are very ignorant individual and I wish you luck (you will need it).