Headphone Upgrade Path: Electrostatic vs Dynamic vs Planar

[Harmonie]

Wow i just had a big dummy moment. Went upstairs put on my open headphones. Pressed play on the classical station and started browsing here and youtube. Was enjoying that open spacious sound. Then got a notification for a new tecno mix on youtube. Thought awesome I'll listen to that. Sat up to reach for the streamer and realised my headphones aren't even on. Ive been listening to speakers for the last hour without even realizing . So take my comments about sound with a large pinch of salt.

At least YOU are honest about it ....

 

[Jimbob54]

Wow i just had a big dummy moment. Went upstairs put on my open headphones. Pressed play on the classical station and started browsing here and youtube. Was enjoying that open spacious sound. Then got a notification for a new tecno mix on youtube. Thought awesome I'll listen to that. Sat up to reach for the streamer and realised my headphones aren't even on. Ive been listening to speakers for the last hour without even realizing . So take my comments about sound with a large pinch of salt.

#goldenears

 

[watchnerd]

Wow i just had a big dummy moment. Went upstairs put on my open headphones. Pressed play on the classical station and started browsing here and youtube. Was enjoying that open spacious sound. Then got a notification for a new tecno mix on youtube. Thought awesome I'll listen to that. Sat up to reach for the streamer and realised my headphones aren't even on. Ive been listening to speakers for the last hour without even realizing . So take my comments about sound with a large pinch of salt.

I've done that once or twice, usually while not sober.

Or, more commonly, muted the speakers, but forgot to mute the subwoofers.

TBH, listening to headphones with subwoofers on was kind of cool, if gimmicky.

 

[watchnerd]

The HD800S is definitely the safe bet. Even if yoou can't audition it, you can buy one from plenty of places with generous return policies.

Nothing against the Senns, but is there any particular reason why the HD800S is preferable to other TOTL dynamic cans, like some Focals?

 

[Jimbob54]

The HD800S is definitely the safe bet. Even if yoou can't audition it, you can buy one from plenty of places with generous return policies.

Might be too soon for me to be definitive , but I think the Focal Clear beat out the HD800 for me (after EQ, is the 800S notably different?) in one important detail-...detail!

HD800 more comfortable, probably image better but there are details I hear with the Clear that none of my other (last gen ToTL type) can get to. But not, sadly, comfortable enough for a 3 hour session. 1 or 2 tops.

And as I have said before - for @watchnerd budget , I think he could justify getting the Senns or Focals PLUS an LCD X or LCD3 planar for that contrast- best of both worlds- but then I havent heard Stax.....

 

[Jimbob54]

Nothing against the Senns, but is there any particular reason why the HD800S is preferable to other TOTL dynamic cans, like some Focals?

Ha- see my crossed comment

 

[watchnerd]

Might be too soon for me to be definitive , but I think the Focal Clear beat out the HD800 for me (after EQ, is the 800S notably different?) in one important detail-...detail!

Uh oh you said "detail".

You're going to open up a can of worms...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1111708996799324160

 

[Jimbob54]

Uh oh you said "detail".

You're going to open up a can of worms...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1111708996799324160

Ha- me n Sean roll pretty deep now

I can just tell it as i hears it- the reasons for why I have no idea- entirely subjective opinion, cos you know what kind of pickle you get into trying to measure these things! The end result, to me , is perception of more detail.

 

[bobbooo]

Yes, the pads helped the bass presence and extension, at the cost of some airiness (and of the "ethereal" 'stats' quality).

Good news about the bass extension, that's my only real gripe with the ESP/95X. Loss of airiness was my concern with a pad change though. I wonder if full leather pads would retain more of that treble extension. Hmm decisions...

 

[Soniclife]

@watchnerd
Are you using EQ now? Are you intending to with the new ones?

I'm considering fancy headphones, price isn't a concern, making the correct decision is. Getting the correct EQ for what I have makes a massive difference, having heard the LCD 3, the clears and utopias* they are way better than my 650 with no EQ, but EQ'ed 650 are much better than they are without EQ. Getting the right EQ took me weeks, so it's going to be tricky. Home loan is probably going to be required.

* Fully sighted, uncontrolled, not all at the same time.

 

[FrantzM]

I think FrantzM indeed meant the originals but the SE is more efficient (96dB/V, just like the Susvara as both are 83dB/mW)
The original is 88dB/V is quite inefficient and to reach loud levels (110dB peak) it requires 14V = 4W
RME reaches 10V so would be enough even for loud listening.
The older versions are lower in impedance so draw a little more power at the same volume (loudness)

14V in 4 Ohm = 50W so when people connect it to a 50W (in 4 Ohm) specified amp they are just feeding it with 4W (max) instead of 50W (which they assume they are feeding it with).

The HE6, indeed is an excellent headphone... if you don't mind the weight and don't want to connect it to your phone.
The new version, because it is more sensitive of course is easier to drive and RME is more than enough.

WHat do you think of the new version as compared to the original? If there is an upgrade path for me at this stage, it could be it .. Mine is ugly with the pleather looking like ... unnamable thing...

Wow i just had a big dummy moment. Went upstairs put on my open headphones. Pressed play on the classical station and started browsing here and youtube. Was enjoying that open spacious sound. Then got a notification for a new tecno mix on youtube. Thought awesome I'll listen to that. Sat up to reach for the streamer and realised my headphones aren't even on. Ive been listening to speakers for the last hour without even realizing . So take my comments about sound with a large pinch of salt.

lol
You know with post like these , we will take away your audiophile certification along with those creds, you accumulated for years...

 

[solderdude]

WHat do you think of the new version as compared to the original? If there is an upgrade path for me at this stage, it could be it .. Mine is ugly with the pleather looking like ... unnamable thing...

Yes, they aren't really pretty and elegant. Just utilitarian. Great sound though.

I haven't heard nor measured the SE. Still on my todo list with about 20 other headphones.
Way too busy to make time and go over there.

 

[maverickronin]

Nothing against the Senns, but is there any particular reason why the HD800S is preferable to other TOTL dynamic cans, like some Focals?

It's all in the soundstage. The Clears are pretty damn good too, but they have a more normal headphone soundstage with less forward projection than the HD800's.

I actually like the Clears better than the Utopias because the Utpoias have much worse staging. They almost sound like you set up two speakers at each end of a long hallway. It's definitely out of your head, but just one dimensional in a very long line.

I think the Audio Technica ADX5000 is another top class dynamic too.

 

[watchnerd]

@watchnerd
Are you using EQ now? Are you intending to with the new ones?

I'm considering fancy headphones, price isn't a concern, making the correct decision is. Getting the correct EQ for what I have makes a massive difference, having heard the LCD 3, the clears and utopias* they are way better than my 650 with no EQ, but EQ'ed 650 are much better than they are without EQ. Getting the right EQ took me weeks, so it's going to be tricky. Home loan is probably going to be required.

* Fully sighted, uncontrolled, not all at the same time.

I use a little bit of EQ.

I don't go nuts and try to smash everything flat, or force-fit the Harman curve.

I have profiles set up in Roon, rather than in the RME or Devialet because it's just easier to create the profile there to make it mobile.

The downside is that it doesn't apply to LP or reel to reel listening.

EQ certainly makes a difference, but I don't think by any means it makes all my cans equal to each other or sound alike.

 

[solderdude]

Can you try to explain what aspects you would like to improve on using more t.o.t.l. headphones ?

 

[watchnerd]

Can you try to explain what aspects you would like to improve on using more t.o.t.l. headphones ?

See #27

 

[Jimbob54]

It's all in the soundstage. The Clears are pretty damn good too, but they have a more normal headphone soundstage with less forward projection than the HD800's.

I actually like the Clears better than the Utopias because the Utpoias have much worse staging. They almost sound like you set up two speakers at each end of a long hallway. It's definitely out of your head, but just one dimensional in a very long line.

I think the Audio Technica ADX5000 is another top class dynamic too.

The 2000 is good so the 5000 I can only imagine. But, really hit and miss on comfort and fit.

 

[watchnerd]

The 2000 is good so the 5000 I can only imagine. But, really hit and miss on comfort and fit.

I'm already using an AT MC cartridge.

Can I have AT transducers on both ends?

 

[Jimbob54]

I'm already using an AT MC cartridge.

Can I have AT transducers on both ends?

Symmetry!

Actually, forgot the 5000 have a proper head band https://www.audio-technica.com/en-g...5J1ZOwx-rt-s7SsdWHC6Fci6zPUl900saAvEsEALw_wcB

Not the flappy things https://www.audio-technica.com/en-g...QTkFJKGmoX6eJfctaRgsvrTmJJF0H7RQaAgcPEALw_wcB

 

[JeffS7444]

Sometimes, one of the harder things to do in the audio hobby is to spend only what's required, even though your budget allows for much, much more.

I used to own Stax electrostatics (worked at a Stax dealer part time in college). Today I own planar dynamics (Fostex) and an older version of Apple's premium wired ear buds, before they went multi-driver.

Fostex eqs beautifully to Harman target response, Apple surprisingly well if not as amazingly well as Fostex T50RP II. Thus corrected, they sound pretty similar, with Fostex packing a bigger punch, somewhat better sense of clarity. Hopefully, latest version of T50RP offers deeper ear pads, as stock parts of my Mk IIs were too shallow and didn't seal well.

My Stax headphones were circa 1980s and I think they would not measure especially well, partly because on-ear design doesn't form a good seal, and quickly becomes uncomfortable to boot. Did get to sample the Lambda (not "Pro") of the era which was more comfortable, but if there was some special electrostatic magic to be had, I wasn't sensing it.

I also owned a set of multi-driver IEMs, and these actually measured rather poorly, with apparent phase cancellation at the crossover point. Really couldn't come up with a correction that worked well with them.

My next headphones may well be Sony WH1000s or Apple Airpods Pro, because I don't own wireless, noise-canceling headphones, and Airpods Pro now offer virtual surround audio when used with iOS or TV OS devices.