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Headphone journey

UWinWithWin

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Hey everyone,

I’m new to this forum. I was on head-if for a long time. Then I recently found this place. I really enjoy seeing the measurements. I like having the ability to see some objective information about the compotenets I’m going to buy/ thinking about buying.

I currently have the the HD-6XX and I just got the HiFiman HE400i.

I have ordered the JDS labs El DAC and the El Amp (based on reviews I’ve seen them seem to be really good bang for buck). My goal is to run them off of an iPad Pro. I have a newer iPad with a usb type c connection. So, I should be able to figure it out.

My main question to everyone, what do I listen for when comparing headphones. In my lifetime I have owned the Westone w3, Beyerdynamic DT 880. I no longer have either the W3 housing broke and I never got around to repairing it. That was my first real step into “Hifi.” The DT880, I never really liked. Primarily, I thought they were uncomfortable.

I currently own the Nuforce EDC, Sennheiser HD 6XX and the HiFiman HE 400i. When I compare the EDC to either the 6XX or the 400i the base sounds so weak. As a general rule I seem to slightly prefer the 6XX to the 400i. But they sound very similar to me with one night of listening through my iPhone X. I’m really looking for that wow moment. My first wow moment was listening the the westone W3 and hearing parts of songs that I had never heard before. The next moment for me was listening to a Denon ah d5000 through I think it was a cypher labs DAC. I listened to The Who magic bus at a head-if meet up. I remember thinking to myself...wow how do I get this for myself. At the time I was only in collage, so I couldn’t afford the ah d5000 or theDAC. At that same meet I listened to some UE reference. They were really nice too. The rep was there and has some without custom tips.. How do I get back to that wow moment?

Also, where should I post about AVR receivers?

Nice to meet everyone and I look forward to participating more on this forum!
 

MRC01

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I've owned a pair of HD-580 for 20 years (the sonically identical predecessor to your HD-600). It's gone through several pad and cable replacements over the years, and I've compared it with other headphones but keep coming back to it. The HD-6xx is near the upper end of the knee of the performance curve; It's hard to do much better at any price. The HD-800 is a step up overall, but it has a pesky resonance peak around 6 kHz that makes it sound artificially bright & fatiguing and drives me nuts. We all have very different HRTF, which means people disagree on headphone sound even more than they do with loudspeakers!

That said, some of the better engineered & built planars have bass response that is so clean & tight it simply isn't possible with a conventional driver. Tyll Herstens measured the Audeze LCD-2 at around 0.1% distortion through the full audible spectrum, some of the lowest distortion he's ever measured in a headphone. That distortion is comparable to the HD-800 in the midrange but an order of magnitude better in the bass. However, that doesn't mean it will sound better to you.

When comparing headphones I listen to a mix of test signals and musical recordings. For example white/pink noise to assess sensitivity and frequency response differences. Don't use your favorite music, but rather music of specific genres and recordings that highlight differences. The Harman/JBL tracks listed here for discriminating loudspeakers is a good place to start.
 

bravomail

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Some ppl do tend to have that wow moment, but they never get it back. It is all in your brain! One guy when he was 18 went for the first time to the sound studio and listened to his pitiful MP3s thru studio amp and Sony 7506. He was blown away. He grew. He bought many different headphones and speakers, modded them for their equalization, sold them to people in need, he even gathered money to get his coveted Sony 7506. But when he listened to them - the magic was gone. They sounded exactly the same as any other headphones he was working with. Welcome to the forum!
 
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UWinWithWin

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Thanks for the response! I listened to a little bit of arctic monkeys “do I wanna know?” That seems to help me get a feeling for the bass with the opening and the vocals give me an idea there too.
 
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UWinWithWin

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Some ppl do tend to have that wow moment, but they never get it back. It is all in your brain! One guy when he was 18 went for the first time to the sound studio and listened to his pitiful MP3s thru studio amp and Sony 7506. He was blown away. He grew. He bought many different headphones and speakers, modded them for their equalization, sold them to people in need, he even gathered money to get his coveted Sony 7506. But when he listened to them - the magic was gone. They sounded exactly the same as any other headphones he was working with. Welcome to the forum!

Thanks! I have suspected that since it was my “first time” I have it idolized in my brain
 

MRC01

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One never forgets the first time!

The first time I heard taut, articulate bass on a planar headphone was a revelation. Over decades of audiophilia listening to many headphones, speakers & rooms over the years, some were great but I had never heard anything like it; the depth, grip & control, timbral accuracy, attack & decay was in a whole different league. My jaw hit the floor and it blew my mind. It was like cutting away all the hi-fi pretense and hearing natural bass in the real world. That first was the early HiFiman HE-500. But I returned that headphone because its midrange voicing didn't sound right to me with voices and acoustic instruments. So I tried the LCD-2 which had equal or superior bass, plus more natural sounding midrange. It became my daily listener, the HD-580 put on backup. Years later I'm used to that sound and sort of take it for granted but I still occasionally hear incredible recordings that bring that first time awe back, like this one: Eva Zaicik.

However, I never would have heard that difference with the typical big but bloated and distorted bass in rock/pop recordings. Or with the over-processed artificial sounding vocals that are too common in jazz & pop recordings. The frequency content, dynamics, distortion, and overall quality of the recording limits the differences you can detect in headphones & equipment.
 
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UWinWithWin

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My opinion - find a pair of headphones that are comfortable and have low distortion. Then eq to taste.
That’s good advice! I’m working on trying out a bunch of different headphones currently. So far I do like the hd-6xx. HE400i is nice too. I haven’t decided what’s more comfortable. What’s the most comfortable headphone you’ve worn?

What has the lowest distortion?
 

solderdude

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Worn ? .... HD700 (too bad it doesn't sound as good)
Mr Speakers Ether is also very comfortable and doesn't sound bad.

SQ ? HD800 (with EQ, without EQ I don't like it)

Dist.: Most of the expensive Audeze's, Focal Clear/Utopia, HD800, Susvara/HE6
But the HE400i and HD650(HD6XX) are no slouches in this department either.

But comfort and sound quality are highly personal.
Distortion is measurable in a few ways but don't think headphones will do multitone very well.
It could be indicative of poor SQ but the Multitone signal should drop in level for higher frequencies and the measurement noise floor would certainly taint the results.
Also distortion is highly amplitude dependent.
The better headphones can do 100dB+ with easy while some start to distort at 80dB+. Both can sound perfectly fine at lower listening levels.

About the D5000/7000... they feel comfortable and have a wow-factor certainly for the first week or month and then you (well at least I) start to notice some flaws. I thought they were perfect when auditioning them but after a while started to bug me.
It is not the only headphone start starts out 'nice' and later turns out to have flaws one cannot live with.
Some headphones may sound 'boring' at first listening, certainly when coming from 'full' and 'lively' headphones but may turn out later to do many things right.
 
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MRC01

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...
It is not the only headphone start starts out 'nice' and later turns out to have flaws one cannot live with.
Some headphones may sound 'boring' at first listening, certainly when coming from 'full' and 'lively' headphones but may turn out later to do many things right.
Great advice for both speakers & headphones. Often the most transparent (lowest distortion, most linear response) headphones sound boring at first but the more you listen, the better they get as you realize all the detail is there it just doesn't jump out and grab you. And the opposite also happens. Don't be fooled by first impressions, but listen extensively to a wide variety of material.

All that said, the OP already has theHD-6xx and HE-400 which do so many things right, they really are at the knee of the performance curve. You can do a little better, but it costs a lot more.
 

Sal1950

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Also, where should I post about AVR receivers?

Nice to meet everyone and I look forward to participating more on this forum!
Welcome to ASR! I'm also a old HeadFi member, I've had a number of different headphones over my 50 some years in HiFi. I got to a place where Senn HD650's satisfied me to a level where I quit looking for anything else. YMMV

There are a number of multich enthusiasts here so posts about AVR's are most welcome. I guess the Audio Electronics and Hardware would be most appropriate header, you weren't too specific on the detail of question. ;)
 
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UWinWithWin

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There are a number of multich enthusiasts here so posts about AVR's are most welcome. I guess the Audio Electronics and Hardware would be most appropriate header, you weren't too specific on the detail of question. ;)

I’m looking for a new avr receiver. And I wanted some opinions on quality units that could drive a 5.1 on 6ohm speakers currently I have the sonus farber venere 2.5 with a venere center and venere wall as the surrounds. When I auditioned the speakers I compared them to definitive, golden ears, paradigm, kef, and monitor(what they had) I liked them the best. But regardless it’s what I currently have. I want something that has 4K UHD and enough power and the ability to expanded to Atmos. Budget is $2k-3k.

I currently have a denon avr x3300w. I’m wondering if upgrading will get me more power and a better DAC. I currently have the towers biamped. Because when they were single amped it didn’t send enough power to them. I dont feel it’s necessary to Biamp if they are powered appropriately. I am sending full signal and letting the speakers internal crossover deal with separation.
 
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UWinWithWin

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Headphone update: I got to audition the focal elear, mr speaker aeon closed and mr speaker aeon flow and the ether c. The aeon was so comfortable. The shape avoids pressing on the ramus and masseter. So that was positive for the shape of my head.
 

Sal1950

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I’m looking for a new avr receiver.
Since there hasn't been much (any) testing of the better receivers here it's hard to make any recommendations.
I and most here I know doing multich are using pre-pro's with either external amps or powered speakers.
Our own @Kal Rubinson reviewed your speakers along (you probalby know) with John Atkinson doing a full measurement. John didn't find the SF to be very difficult loads to drive, but if you are using them in a home theater rig lots of reserve power never hurts.
Any way you can maybe stretch the budget a little for a pre/pro, or consider a used unit? Since the majors turn over models every year, great deals are to be found on close-outs. Ebay shows a Marantz AV7704 new at under $2k, then add some multich amp and you'd be all set. Just a few thoughts. If you do a search here for "AVR" using Title Only you'll get a lot of info.
Maybe start a new threat on the question on Audio Electronics and Hardware

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sonus-faber-venere-25-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...marantz-av8805-and-audyssey-multeq-xt32.7196/
 
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UWinWithWin

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I had a chance this weeekend to sit down with a bunch of different headphones at the local store. I listened to the focal clear, focal elear, mrspeaker ether closed and ether open, mrspeaker aeon and my person hd6xx. It mostly made me impressed with the hd 6xx. I personally enjoyed the ether open and focal clear the most out of the new batch. I did enjoy the ether closed. I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on the focal clear. Has anyone else had any experience with any of these bad boys. What’s your opinion of them?

Also, I’m hopeful to get some well isolating IEM for my on the go/airplane listening. I will be running it from my iPhone X. Will the topping nx4 DsD be quiet enough for IEM.

As far as IEM go, I can really only use ones that take the comply 100 tips. Everything else ends up hurting my ears because the iem housing puts too much pressure on my ear canal. The 200 might be ok as well.

The ones I’ve found are the sure se535 or se846 and the westone W line. Etymotic I believe also has small tips.

I had wanted to try the campfire line but they take 400 or 500 tips and my ears can’t deal with that without pain :
 

MRC01

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The HD6xx is a great headphone. The only headphone I found that sounded better (lower distortion, more neutral, more natural) was the Audeze LCD-2 Fazor. It might not sound better to you, but if you're in the Focal Clear price range I'd recommend listening to that before pulling the trigger.

For IEMs, VSONIC models sound good, are relatively cheap, have decent measurements, and come with a variety of different sizes & shapes of tips. The VSD1S and VSD3S are cheap but well made, hard to find anything under $100 that sounds or measures as good. Just avoid the "bass" versions unless you like heavy bloated bass. The GR07 are a step up and sound more refined, smooth yet detailed.
 
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UWinWithWin

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The HD6xx is a great headphone. The only headphone I found that sounded better (lower distortion, more neutral, more natural) was the Audeze LCD-2 Fazor. It might not sound better to you, but if you're in the Focal Clear price range I'd recommend listening to that before pulling the trigger.
I forgot that I did try the Audeze LCD-XC. I didn’t have any objections to what I heard. It was just very heavy and was starting to get uncomfortable to me after 15 minutes. It was crossed off the list for me for comfort alone. I did not audition the lcd-2 but I will have to get a chance to sit down with them.
 

MRC01

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The LCD-X (open) has a different sound than the LCD-2, -3 and -4. The X sounded a bit not "right" in midrange voicing compared to the others. But our HRTF varies quite a bit from person to person, so we all disagree on what sounds most natural.
Some places (like Headphone.com) sell returned B stock items like new with full warranty and exchange, worth looking into for these kilobuck & up purchases.
 

Sal1950

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JJB70

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One obvious point worth stating is not to fall into thinking that more expensive = better. That is true for audio in general but recent years have seen a proliferation of mega bucks statement headphones and unless you want to make a statement you really don't need to spend that much. Headphones like the HD6x0 family and equivalent models from Audio Technica, AKG, Beyerdynamic etc are still pretty much as good as you need to go. I paid £140 for a pair of Audio Technica MSR7's which are superb. I prefer my T5P II's but the SQ difference is in no way commensurate with the ostensible price difference (although the sonic signature is different the MSR7 delivers its sonic signature extremely well).
 
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