Headphone dilemma

[ciccio1378]

I currently listen to my Flat files with the Sennheiser HD560S and use Wavelet because I want more bass impact, while having no need to make any adjustments to the high frequencies. It's hard for me to imagine a more satisfying listening experience. However, every now and then I'm tempted to buy another pair of headphones that would allow me to achieve the same listening pleasure without using Wavelet. I've identified two headphones that I think might be suitable: the Fiio FT1 or the Beyerdynamic DT 700/900 PRO X, but I've never listened to them. I'm looking for some advice. Thanks.

 

[solderdude]

Comfort differs, price differs, sound differs, drive-ability differs, longevity differs, looks differs, weight differs, isolation differs etc.

No one can tell you what you want exactly and what you want different. Also what works for person A may not work (as well) for you.
What you have is pretty decent and more than good enough for most people.

Audition, audition, audition.

All the headphones you mention have some stronger and weaker points. None of them are perfect. You may well like all of the suggested one

I am sure there are going to be recommendations, even suggestions for other models and owners telling you they prefer this or that.
They aren't you... I am sorry... the best way would be to try them in a shop or elsewhere or buy and return or buy and resell what you don't want.

 

[ciccio1378]

I fully understand your concerns, especially since, as you say, what works for person A might not work (as well) for me. In fact, I'm ready to address this difficulty. Above all, I'd like anyone who replies to me to keep in mind my sole requirement: "I'm looking for another pair of headphones that will allow me to achieve the same listening pleasure without using Wavelet." Perhaps some of my friends on the forum already own my Sennheiser and have had listening experiences with other headphones.

 

[Jeromeof]

Given you are happy to use EQ - I would suggest audition a headphone for comfort - I personally think having at least 3 headphones in a collection are ideal - an open back, a closed back and if you travel or even walk outside with headphones a decent ANC headphone). And even with open backs there are very different experiences say with a HD600 and an Edition XS that cannot be EQ'ed.

The treble response of headphones is the achilles heal of headphone EQ - as mostly every headphone will be a little different than the measurements ( some more variant than others), so auditioning 'treble' is also a requirement ( unless you get into fine 'grained' EQ beyond 6K which mostly I don't think works for people).

 

[Grimoire]

I fully understand your concerns, especially since, as you say, what works for person A might not work (as well) for me. In fact, I'm ready to address this difficulty. Above all, I'd like anyone who replies to me to keep in mind my sole requirement: "I'm looking for another pair of headphones that will allow me to achieve the same listening pleasure without using Wavelet." Perhaps some of my friends on the forum already own my Sennheiser and have had listening experiences with other headphones.

You haven't understood what solderdude said, otherwise you would not have come back with that comment. Try re-reading his excellent advice.

 

[DVDdoug]

The HD560S is a little light on bass, referenced to the Harmon target curve.

The DT990 has mid-bass boost but a drop-off going below the target in the deep bass range.

The FT1 and DT700 aren't reviewed here and I don't know how they compares.

The "famously affordable" AKG K371 has deep bass above the target. curve. Amir liked the bass boost and his recommended EQ doesn't correct it. (He did make a couple of EQ adjustments in the mid-high range.)

 

[ciccio1378]

You haven't understood what solderdude said, otherwise you would not have come back with that comment. Try re-reading his excellent advice.

I think I understand perfectly what solderdude wrote. However, if we were to base our decision on what he wrote, it would be perfectly pointless to ask for advice when replacing an audio component, because it's certainly true that "what works for person A might not work (as well) for person B." Therefore, it's implicit that when you ask for an opinion, you implicitly accept this risk.

 

[ciccio1378]

For solderdude:
considering that you've reviewed dozens and dozens of headphones, are there any that in your opinion have similar sonic and tonal characteristics to the HD560S, with a greater emphasis on bass?

 

[solderdude]

Over 200 by now and still own a HD560S (but don't use it).

You would have to be looking at closed headphones for 'Harman type emphasized bass'.
Bass is VERY seal dependent (just like most closed headphones)
Closest in sound sig. would be HD620S

and for open perhaps the very comfortable and relatively cheap ATH-R50x (Thomann.de) you can even return it.

or maybe, when you can still find one the Fidelio X2HR.

or some DCA headphones.

I can not guarantee any of these is exactly what you want.
Bass impact is in the 100-200Hz range but 'bloat' and 'fat' sound is in that area too when it is a bit too much.
For bass impact a Woojer vest would be the way to go ?

The above are suggestions as they have some sound quality similarities and not recommendations. There may be better suited headphones for you but as you did not specify what your EQ settings are it is hard to predict what you possible may or may not like.

 

[ciccio1378]

Over 200 by now and still own a HD560S (but don't use it).

You would have to be looking at closed headphones for 'Harman type emphasized bass'.
Bass is VERY seal dependent (just like most closed headphones)
Closest in sound sig. would be HD620S

and for open perhaps the very comfortable and relatively cheap ATH-R50x (Thomann.de) you can even return it.
View attachment 476315

or maybe, when you can still find one the Fidelio X2HR.

or some DCA headphones.

I can not guarantee any of these is exactly what you want.
Bass impact is in the 100-200Hz range but 'bloat' and 'fat' sound is in that area too when it is a bit too much.
For bass impact a Woojer vest would be the way to go ?

The above are suggestions as they have some sound quality similarities and not recommendations. There may be better suited headphones for you but as you did not specify what your EQ settings are it is hard to predict what you possible may or may not like.

Before purchasing the HD560S, I tried the Fidelio X2HR, but despite attempting a lengthy break-in period of about thirty hours, I returned them. Although they had good bass, I found the accentuated sibilance on certain female vocals unbearable.
As for the ATH-R50x, I've seen numerous reviews online, all largely positive, including yours. I'm concerned, however, that, as you write, "above 10 kHz, there are a couple of narrower, higher peaks around 15 kHz, 20 kHz, and 25 kHz (perhaps even higher?)" which could cause high frequencies to be too annoying compared to those of my Sennheiser.
The HD620S would probably be the best fit for my needs, as long as they guarantee a perfect seal. It's a shame that here in Italy they cost twice as much as the Audio-Technica. I'll have to make a decision soon. Thanks anyway for your valuable advice.

 

[zonk]

The HD620S would probably be the best fit for my needs, as long as they guarantee a perfect seal. It's a shame that here in Italy they cost twice as much as the Audio-Technica. I'll have to make a decision soon. Thanks anyway for your valuable advice.

For example at the German Sennheiser Outlet is a refurbished HD620S available for 225€.
https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/de-DE/p/hd-620s-refurbished/cm0c3mgu14h9q08ug29w72v93/

Philips don't offer replacement earpads. This is in my opinion not a good option. I don't know why people recommend this, I didn't like the sound.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../philips-fidelio-x2hr-review-headphone.19250/

The AKG K371 is a good closed headphone, but some users complain about build quality. I have one and I think it's ok, but sound is very good.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../akg-k371-review-closed-back-headphone.19657/

 

[zonk]

I found a link to the Italian Sennheiser Outlet and HD620S for 225€:
https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/it-IT/p/hd-620s-refurbished/cm0c3mgu14h9q08ug29w72v93/

 

[solderdude]

Before purchasing the HD560S, I tried the Fidelio X2HR, but despite attempting a lengthy break-in period of about thirty hours, I returned them. Although they had good bass, I found the accentuated sibilance on certain female vocals unbearable.

Then you probably don't need to try the R50x, there is no sibilance but there is some sharpness/hyper detail (unless you order a filter for it) then it may just be what you are looking for.

As for the ATH-R50x, I've seen numerous reviews online, all largely positive, including yours. I'm concerned, however, that, as you write, "above 10 kHz, there are a couple of narrower, higher peaks around 15 kHz, 20 kHz, and 25 kHz (perhaps even higher?)" which could cause high frequencies to be too annoying compared to those of my Sennheiser.
The HD620S would probably be the best fit for my needs, as long as they guarantee a perfect seal. It's a shame that here in Italy they cost twice as much as the Audio-Technica. I'll have to make a decision soon. Thanks anyway for your valuable advice.

 

[ciccio1378]

I'm inclined to discard the AKGs, especially since many complain about their poor build quality and aesthetics.
I think I'll end up buying the ATH-R50xs, for their light weight, the very soft, interchangeable velour earpads, and because they should have a fairly wide stereo image, given that they're open-back. What I'm worried about is the 8kHz peak that solderdude highlighted, especially since I don't intend to use felt, toilet paper, or hardware filters; at most, I'd use an equalizer.
If I'm not satisfied, I'd switch to the HD620Ss, which, acoustically speaking, should be perfect for my needs, even if I'm not a fan of their faux leather earpads.
I find it strange that no one recommends the Fiio FT1s, which I've never tried anyway. What do you think, solderdude?

 

[zonk]

I'm inclined to discard the AKGs, especially since many complain about their poor build quality and aesthetics.
I think I'll end up buying the ATH-R50xs, for their light weight, the very soft, interchangeable velour earpads, and because they should have a fairly wide stereo image, given that they're open-back. What I'm worried about is the 8kHz peak that solderdude highlighted, especially since I don't intend to use felt, toilet paper, or hardware filters; at most, I'd use an equalizer.
If I'm not satisfied, I'd switch to the HD620Ss, which, acoustically speaking, should be perfect for my needs, even if I'm not a fan of their faux leather earpads.
I find it strange that no one recommends the Fiio FT1s, which I've never tried anyway. What do you think, solderdude?

The construction of the Audio Technica doesn't convince me with the loose thin cable from the headband to the earcups. And have you checked if Audio Technica is offering replacement earpads? Toilet paper in the headphone.. ridiculous.
Audio Technica ATH-R50x measurements

The FT1 has a bloated Bass. Maybe that's the reason why nobody really recommend it.
Fiio FT1 measurements

The HD620D for 225€ is good and from the Sennheiser Outlet it's like new with full warranty.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

The construction of the Audio Technica doesn't convince me with the loose thin cable from the headband to the earcups. And have you checked if Audio Technica is offering replacement earpads? Toilet paper in the headphone.. ridiculous.
Audio Technica ATH-R50x measurements

The FT1 has a bloated Bass. Maybe that's the reason why nobody really recommend it.
Fiio FT1 measurements

The HD620D for 225€ is good and from the Sennheiser Outlet it's like new with full warranty.

Ft1 on the head will probably show a bit less bass because of less than ideal seal.

 

[solderdude]

What do you think, solderdude?

FT1:
Bassy and full sounding with sparkly treble and clear mids. A pleasant ‘tone’ without obvious faults.
Bass is very well extended and a bit elevated. With pop and rock music the FT1 has good ‘body’ and tonality but is a bit ‘thick’ sounding on well recorded jazz, blues and classical.
There is plenty of ‘punch’ and ‘slam’ but with better recordings the sound is a bit ‘congested’ and ‘boomy’.
The mids sound dynamic and open but are lacking a bit in ‘bite’ and ‘presence’, a bit too ‘soft’.

R50x:
Bass is a little elevated in level and decent in quality. Bass extension is quite good for an open headphone. Bass is ‘full’ but not ‘tight’ and a bit ‘soft/woolly’ in texture, but integrates nicely into the mids without being ‘bloated’ or being ‘dis-attached’. Reducing the elevate bass area will not cure the lack of ‘impact’ but does ‘tighten’ the bass a bit.
Mids are very good in tonality and sound clean, dynamic, ‘open’ with very good clarity .
There is nothing much to fault about the mids.
The treble is not of the highest quality and is lightly elevated and very well extended. There is good ‘air’ and there is a high level of detail. Those looking for ‘soft/sweet’ treble might be a bit disappointed as the treble is not ‘silky’ and has a ‘sharpness’ to it. The good news is that there is no sibilance and some EQ/filtering can greatly improve things.

HD620S:
Subbass extension is excellent (with a perfect seal). It does not follow the Harman curve exactly but does come very close. Bass has good ‘impact’ yet is not ‘elevated’. Bass quality is good. Mids sound neutral, ‘open’, ‘dynamic’ and there is excellent clarity. Treble is of high quality and at ‘the correct level’ and ‘airy’. There is no harshness/coarseness but does sound a little ‘sharper’ than the HD 560S and HD 6*0 range.

The pads are not the thin nor thick pleather type but have a 'silicone' feel to it. No idea about longevity. You can't use the velour HD560S/HD599 pads on this headphone.

 

[ciccio1378]

For zonk: thanks for the link to the refurbished 620S, but I always prefer to buy from Amazon, for the ease of returns.

 

[ciccio1378]

FT1:
Bassy and full sounding with sparkly treble and clear mids. A pleasant ‘tone’ without obvious faults.
Bass is very well extended and a bit elevated. With pop and rock music the FT1 has good ‘body’ and tonality but is a bit ‘thick’ sounding on well recorded jazz, blues and classical.
There is plenty of ‘punch’ and ‘slam’ but with better recordings the sound is a bit ‘congested’ and ‘boomy’.
The mids sound dynamic and open but are lacking a bit in ‘bite’ and ‘presence’, a bit too ‘soft’.

R50x:
Bass is a little elevated in level and decent in quality. Bass extension is quite good for an open headphone. Bass is ‘full’ but not ‘tight’ and a bit ‘soft/woolly’ in texture, but integrates nicely into the mids without being ‘bloated’ or being ‘dis-attached’. Reducing the elevate bass area will not cure the lack of ‘impact’ but does ‘tighten’ the bass a bit.
Mids are very good in tonality and sound clean, dynamic, ‘open’ with very good clarity .
There is nothing much to fault about the mids.
The treble is not of the highest quality and is lightly elevated and very well extended. There is good ‘air’ and there is a high level of detail. Those looking for ‘soft/sweet’ treble might be a bit disappointed as the treble is not ‘silky’ and has a ‘sharpness’ to it. The good news is that there is no sibilance and some EQ/filtering can greatly improve things.

HD620S:
Subbass extension is excellent (with a perfect seal). It does not follow the Harman curve exactly but does come very close. Bass has good ‘impact’ yet is not ‘elevated’. Bass quality is good. Mids sound neutral, ‘open’, ‘dynamic’ and there is excellent clarity. Treble is of high quality and at ‘the correct level’ and ‘airy’. There is no harshness/coarseness but does sound a little ‘sharper’ than the HD 560S and HD 6*0 range.

The pads are not the thin nor thick pleather type but have a 'silicone' feel to it. No idea about longevity. You can't use the velour HD560S/HD599 pads on this headphone.

At this point I have to say that you've provided me with all the information I need to make a decision. Undoubtedly, the HD620S is the best headphone for my needs. Thanks again, solderdude.

 

[ciccio1378]

I was almost ready to order the R50x. But first, I checked the Audio-Thecnica website to see if there were replacement pads. Turns out, they only have ones for the ATH-R70x. Does anyone know if they're compatible with the R50x?