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Headphone + DAC + Amp Combo

solderdude

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JBL Tune 710 BT from a non seller angle.

$ 59,- is a really great price for them though. Not in the same league as the headphones the OP is looking into and no NC either.
 
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Sprint

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BTR5 is a nice device with a 10 band tone control which is more than sufficient to apply accurate EQ.
On SE out it can deliver 8mW in 300 ohm, on and 25mW in balanced mode.
Enough in most cases but would require balanced cables.

I would say just try both headphones on it an when you find you want to go louder or sound 'cleaner' at higher listening levels buy a desktop amp.
@solderdude Thanks for the recommendations. I have ordered a 2,5 mm male to 3,5 mm female adapter. I will try DT770 and EQ Fiio BTR5. I will then also try both HD560 and Sundara in the same manner. Later I will then go for a Topping L30.
 
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On the Mac i use the built in EQ of the RME ADI2 DAC, on the phone I go without. But if the BTR5 has the EQ you’re already set, sorry but on my first reading of your post I misread that you didn't have an amplifier…

@Paolo: Thanks! For my Mac I am planning to go for sound source or tonebooster as many ASR members are using. For IPAD it seems tone booster will work as well. Otherwise I have Fiio BTR5.
 

solderdude

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do NOT use those adapters. It will short the balanced L- and R- amplifier sections in the BTR5.

You can ONLY use TRS jacks on the 3.5mm SE output !

ONLY use the 2.5mm TRRS output with balanced headphone cables. You can get aftermarket balanced cables for the HD560S. Sennheiser doesn't sell these cables.

The Sundara can work balanced the DT770 NOT
 
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do NOT use those adapters. It will short the balanced amplifier sections in the BTR5.

You can ONLY use TRS jacks on the 3.5mm SE output !

ONLY use the 2.5mm TRRS output with balanced headphone cables. You can get aftermarket balanced cables for the HD560S. Sennheiser doesn't sell these cables.

The Sundara can work balanced the DT770 NOT

oh ok!!! Thanks for stopping me!! I will then not use DT770 with the adapter. For Sundara, do I also need to buy aftermarket balanced cables?
 
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@solderdude: Sorry to ask you this basic question. The BTR5 has 1 3,5 mm unbalanced and 2,5 mm balanced. The DT770 pro 80 ohm came with 3,5 1/8 mini jack cable with a 3,5 mm female 6,35 mm male adapter. Since the adapter was provided out of the box, I thought I could use a 3,5 mm female 2,5 mm male adapter like this to use the balanced output of BTR5. But I understand that this could be harmful for BTR5.

Now coming to Sundara, I see they provide exactly the same like DT770 pro. a 3,5 mm cable and a 6,35mm adapter. So do I need a separate balanced cable with 2,5 mm male to use the 2,5 mm output of BTR5. Is that correct?
 

Paolo

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oh ok!!! Thanks for stopping me!! I will then not use DT770 with the adapter. For Sundara, do I also need to buy aftermarket balanced cables?
Yes, the provided cable is not balanced, but the connectors are flush with the case, so, as long as the new cable has the 2,5mm it will fit.

Not sure why @solderdude is suggesting balanced cables, is it the case where the BR5 would be too tame otherwise?

Anyway, if you go for the balanced route with the HD560s ask in the forum for a good and tested cable, I’m not talking about esoteric properties, but my experience with the build quality of the only cable I’ve found on amazon has been pretty meh, I bought this one https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07M7G342B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and it’s too loose in the Sennheiser connector, you will have to fudge with it constantly.
 

solderdude

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That cable simply converts TRS 2.5mm to TRS 3.5mm.

The TRRS 2.5mm in the BTR5 has a ring between the ring and the sleeve. The moment you plug this cable in that second ring and (shorter) sleeve, which both have an amplifier section connected to it INSIDE the BTR5 are shorted.
So do NOT use this cable on the BTR5 !

These cables are intended for devices having a 2.5mm TRS SE output so you can connect a 3.5mm TRS plug to said output.

So do I need a separate balanced cable with 2,5 mm male to use the 2,5 mm output of BTR5. Is that correct?

Both the Sundara and HD560S come with the regular TRS plugs.

In order to use these headphones balanced you will have to buy balanced aftermarket cables.
Meaning the Sundara cable will have 3.5mm TRS (or TS) jacks on the headphone side and 1 TRRS 2.5mm on the amplifier side.

For the Sundara these are easily found, for the Sennheiser you may have to look carefully of what is offered.

The HD560S has a propriatary locking 2.5mm TRRS plug which can be used balanced. The cable that comes with it has 4 wires in it where the 2 ' - ' wires are connected to the sleeve in the provided cable.

Either one removes that TRS plug and solders on a 2.5mm TRRS plug instead OR you need to find an aftermarket cable that has a 2.5mm TRRS plug on both ends where one plug is either so small in diameter it fits in the headphone or has the locking mechanism.
The cable mentioned by Paolo is a cable that can be used but won't lock. There are probably manufacturers making balanced cables for it.

Myself I don't use the HD560S balanced (there is no need for it really when you have some decent SE source.
 
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Paolo

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The cable mentioned by Paolo is a cable that can be used but won't lock. There are probably manufacturers making balanced cables for it.

Myself I don't use the HD560S balanced (there is no need for it really when you have some decent SE source.
Actually my aftermarket cable has the locking mechanism, it’s just too thin and loose, that’s why I’ve mentioned it.
All the HD5 series should have the same connector, but Sennheiser has made so many different versions of finishes and maybe also different kinds of plastic that i suspect the problems is in the varying tolerances more than the format.
 

jae

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@jae Thanks! Drop is not available in EU. It will be international shipping + customs. I need to check with Drop if they ship to EU. Is there any portable amps (assuming I will use Apple USB DAC dongle or Steinberg UR22 as DAC) that you would recommend for HD600? Thanks for recommending Aeon RT. Due to cost factor, I would have gone used but do not get much in EU. So may have to wait for a couple of years. Also Dan Clark headphones available only in Thomann.
Surely a Drop 6XX even with international shipping and VAT will still be cheaper than a retail HD600? Ebay is also an option where you can even find them for cheaper (new and used) sometimes.

I do plan to EQ. But not sure which software to use in my MacBook and iPAD. I will go with the assumption that I will not EQ.
Look no further than https://rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/ It even has AutoEQ (https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/) built in.
 
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@solderdude : I pulled the trigger and ordered Sundara. I then also felt to go for a proper amp. The question is should I go for L50 or A50s topping. Both are similar. A50s has balanced out. Whereas L50 has SE but with gain switch. From price, both are same in amazon close to 190 Euros. What is your recommendation? With A50s I need to buy a balanced cable with 4.4 mm pin. whereas with L50, I do not need anything but it accepts balanced input whereas A50s accepts only RCA. Since my input will be from Apple Dongle or Steinberg USB interface (Do not know which one is better though). If it is Apple then it is 3.5 mm whereas Steinberg outputs TRS 6.3 mm.
 

solderdude

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L30 or L50 (when you want Topping), you don't need balanced out.
 

3125b

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1. HiFiman HE-400SE (169 Euros)
2. Audio Technica ath-r70x (305 Euros)
3. Sennheiser HD 560s (200 Euros)
4. Sennheiser HD 600 (400 Euros)
5. Hifiman Sandara (350 Euros)
6. AKG702 (120 Euros)
I don't know about the quoted prices, you can find many of those headphones much cheaper. For example Sennheiser just had a sale on refurbished (typically very much like new) 560S (99€) and 600 (199€).

If those prices are set for some reason, the HE-400SE seems like the best choice to me based on price.
If you could get it for anywhere near the 200€ price point I'd vote for the HD 600. Mine is 20 years old and does not show that at all. It's very easy to take apart to repair or clean and most parts are readily available. If you can get it for 99€ the HD560S seems like a very good value too, I had a 10-15 year old HD555 (similar construction), they last ok but the plastic and glue start to fail at some point.
The K702 is unreliable at best and many issues are not easily fixable (solder joints are fixable, the headband rubber bands much less so).
HiFiMAN doesn't have the best reputation for reliability, but the cheaper models seem better than the more expensive ones in that regard. The Sundara seems especially bad, lots of complaints about that one. Although I really like the way it sounds.
The R70X seems like a very good headphone, but I couldn't even find replacement pads for it.
 
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L30 or L50 (when you want Topping), you don't need balanced out.
I am also open to other amps if there is any thing better than Topping.
 
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solderdude

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Topping is one of the better brands when it concerns highest VFM (value for money)
 
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3125b

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The Toppings are a very good choice and they are available internationally unlike many others like JDS or Schiit.
 
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L30 or L50 (when you want Topping), you don't need balanced out.

Thanks for suggesting L50. I like the form factor of A50s => just 300 grams compared to a kilo. Is the performance of L50 better than A50s and I can ignore the form factor? If that is the case I ignore then.
 

Leiker535

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Thanks for suggesting L50. I like the form factor of A50s => just 300 grams compared to a kilo. Is the performance of L50 better than A50s and I can ignore the form factor? If that is the case I ignore then.

They should all sound the same, but they differ in specifications (power). You should be mindful that in order to use your laptops dac you'll have to connect to the SE (RCA) input, and that will halve the power output compared to the balanced input of the L50. To use that, you can use a proper balanced to balanced cable from your BTR5, as it should supply the 4V needed for the L50 to perform at its max. I actually don't know if that effect will happen in the A50s, as it only has RCA inputs, and I'd stay away of balanced to SE adapters in fear of accidents, but someone with better knowledge than me in these matters might answer that for you.
 

solderdude

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Apple Dongle will give 1V output and is SE (TRS to 2x RCA)
Steinberg USB interface is SE out (2x TS to 2x XLR/RCA

So best to have RCA inputs. For the apple dongle best to have higher gain option.
You only have SE headphones so SE outputs would be best.

L30 and L50 fit the bill. You can used the A50S but on the apple dongle the max. output levels of the amp could be a bit low when using high imp. headphones.
 
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They should all sound the same, but they differ in specifications (power). You should be mindful that in order to use your laptops dac you'll have to connect to the SE (RCA) input, and that will halve the power output compared to the balanced input of the L50. To use that, you can use a proper balanced to balanced cable from your BTR5, as it should supply the 4V needed for the L50 to perform at its max. I actually don't know if that effect will happen in the A50s, as it only has RCA inputs, and I'd stay away of balanced to SE adapters in fear of accidents, but someone with better knowledge than me in these matters might answer that for you.
Thanks! So this means, I use the laptop USBC-C to connect to BTR5. Use a 2.5 mm -> 6.35 mm balanced cable (do not know if such cables exist) to connect from BTR5 to L50 6.3 input. this way I will get the max power out of L50. Is my understanding correct?
 
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