Headphone + DAC + Amp Combo

[Sprint]

Hi all,

Big fan of ASR and had my living room set up based on learnings from ASR. Currently I own a Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm driven by FiiO BTR5 DAC + AMP. I am looking to step to the next level. The source is iPad Pro 2021 and MacBook Pro 2021 model. I listen to Apple Music lossless, Spotify and YouTube music.I listen most of the times in my bed or couch. Desktop is rarely used. I am in EU and I do not have many HiFI shops to listen. I am dependant on Thomann or Amazon. Since I already own a closed headphone, this time I am inclined towards open back headphones. Budget for whole set up and to be end game is max 600 Euros and the lesser the better with high value for money.

Here are some that I listed in the order of ranking based on my reading of reviews in ASR/crinacle.

1. HiFiman HE-400SE (169 Euros)
2. Audio Technica ath-r70x (305 Euros)
3. Sennheiser HD 560s (200 Euros)
4. Sennheiser HD 600 (400 Euros)
5. Hifiman Sandara (350 Euros)
6. AKG702 (120 Euros)

Which of them has the highest value for money and close to end game? Or should I stick to my DT770? Which 2 HP would you propose so that I can order, compare and return one of them?

I assume I would need an AMP to drive one of the above. The next question is do I need a DAC or can I rely on the DAC of my iPAD and MacBook? If I need should I go for seperates or DAC/AMP combo?

The DAC/AMP combo that I have selected is:
1. HDIZIS HD80 (140 Euros but currently not available)
2. Topping EX5 (349 Euros)
3. Topping DX3+ Pro (200 Euros but currently not available)
4. Topping E30 + L30 Combo?

Do I really need balanced output (XLR?) for better sonic reproduction? I may also go for IEM like 7HZ timeless next year and therefore Amp to be compatible.

I am also looking for Noise cancelling wireless HP for my office + occasional casual music? I am eyeing on Bose 35 or 45, Beyerdynamic Aventho Wireless
or anything else. I assume these wireless cannot come close the above HP.


Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Firefly00]

For headphones, add the Aeon X or Aeon RT models to your list. They are excellent and highly regarded here on ASR. For an amp, the topping E30/L30 looks good, or possibly Schiit Magni/Modi

for ANC, those Bose are quite good, but I’d be wary of the company as they have nerfed the ANC with a firmware update on older models as new ones are released (QC35‘s ANC was pushed down a level when the NC700 came out).

Sony WH series is also quite good, seemingly without this issue

 

[watchnerd]

Hi all,

Big fan of ASR and had my living room set up based on learnings from ASR. Currently I own a Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm driven by FiiO BTR5 DAC + AMP. I am looking to step to the next level. The source is iPad Pro 2021 and MacBook Pro 2021 model. I listen to Apple Music lossless, Spotify and YouTube music.I listen most of the times in my bed or couch. Desktop is rarely used. I am in EU and I do not have many HiFI shops to listen. I am dependant on Thomann or Amazon. Since I already own a closed headphone, this time I am inclined towards open back headphones. Budget for whole set up and to be end game is max 600 Euros and the lesser the better with high value for money.

Here are some that I listed in the order of ranking based on my reading of reviews in ASR/crinacle.

1. HiFiman HE-400SE (169 Euros)
2. Audio Technica ath-r70x (305 Euros)
3. Sennheiser HD 560s (200 Euros)
4. Sennheiser HD 600 (400 Euros)
5. Hifiman Sandara (350 Euros)
6. AKG702 (120 Euros)

I own, or have previously owned, #1, #4, and #6.

The Sennheiser HD600, and its variants, are really a must own, even as you start to buy more expensive headphones.

They're not the best at anything, but they provide a baseline performance for tonality against which to judge others.

 

[jae]

Drop HD6XX + Topping EX5. Aeon RT open if you want to spend a bit more on the headphones. I would not bother with a separate dac/amp unless you have a reason why you need them separate.

 

[twsecrest]

Takstar HF 580 planar headphones, with Sendyaudio AVIA ear pads.

Should work fine plugged directly into Apple products.

 

[Sprint]

I own, or have previously owned, #1, #4, and #6.

The Sennheiser HD600, and its variants, are really a must own, even as you start to buy more expensive headphones.

They're not the best at anything, but they provide a baseline performance for tonality against which to judge others.

@watchnerd : Thanks! As it is more for music enjoyment, I will start with 1 or 6 and then buy HD 600 in a year. I will order both and see which sounds better for me. do I really need a DAC for my mcbook pro 21 model or IPAD 21 model. I can also use a simple APPLE USB Dongle and use 3.5 mm RCA cable. If I do not need a DAC, then I can just go for L30. Save 200 Euros for HD600 buy next year. BTW I have a Steinberg UR22 MK2 USB interface which I can use as a DAC.

 

[Sprint]

Takstar HF 580 planar headphones, with Sendyaudio AVIA ear pads.

Should work fine plugged directly into Apple products.

Takstar HF 580 seems to be not available in local Amazon. Available only in Aliexpress and that too with a delivery mid Dec.

 

[Sprint]

Drop HD6XX + Topping EX5. Aeon RT open if you want to spend a bit more on the headphones. I would not bother with a separate dac/amp unless you have a reason why you need them separate.

@jae Thanks! Drop is not available in EU. It will be international shipping + customs. I need to check with Drop if they ship to EU. Is there any portable amps (assuming I will use Apple USB DAC dongle or Steinberg UR22 as DAC) that you would recommend for HD600? Thanks for recommending Aeon RT. Due to cost factor, I would have gone used but do not get much in EU. So may have to wait for a couple of years. Also Dan Clark headphones available only in Thomann.

 

[Jimbob54]

@jae Thanks! Drop is not available in EU. It will be international shipping + customs. I need to check with Drop if they ship to EU. Is there any portable amps (assuming I will use Apple USB DAC dongle or Steinberg UR22 as DAC) that you would recommend for HD600? Thanks for recommending Aeon RT. Due to cost factor, I would have gone used but do not get much in EU. So may have to wait for a couple of years. Also Dan Clark headphones available only in Thomann.

Specific items like the Drop/ Focal Elex will not ship to EU due to restrictions imposed by the manufacturer but generally Drop will ship to EU. Customs and shipping and taxes will of course apply as you say. Ive bought from them a few times when UK was still in EU and it went fine.

 

[Snoopy]

Focal Elegia for 499€ Amazon

 

[Sprint]

Focal Elegia for 499€ Amazon

But they are closed back right? I am looking for an open back to experience something different than my current DT770 which is closed back

 

[Sombreuil]

Which of them has the highest value for money and close to end game? Or should I stick to my DT770? Which 2 HP would you propose so that I can order, compare and return one of them?

Get this idea out of your mind and you'll see more clearly. You already own something that is good enough, what you're looking for is something different, not better.
If I were you I'd first try to understand what I don't like about the DT 770 and what kind of headphones I'm looking for. You seem to look for something better without even knowing what better would mean, and I doubt someone could help you.

Each headphone has pros and cons, even the ones hat cost $30k.

 

[solderdude]

Hi all,

Big fan of ASR and had my living room set up based on learnings from ASR. Currently I own a Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm driven by FiiO BTR5 DAC + AMP. I am looking to step to the next level. The source is iPad Pro 2021 and MacBook Pro 2021 model. I listen to Apple Music lossless, Spotify and YouTube music.I listen most of the times in my bed or couch. Desktop is rarely used. I am in EU and I do not have many HiFI shops to listen. I am dependant on Thomann or Amazon. Since I already own a closed headphone, this time I am inclined towards open back headphones. Budget for whole set up and to be end game is max 600 Euros and the lesser the better with high value for money.

question... do you plan to EQ ?
When you do all mentioned headphones are usable and it becomes a comfort/price/fit thing.

When you don't want to EQ and look for realistic natural sound I would limit choices to:
Sundara and HD560S.

I assume I would need an AMP to drive one of the above. The next question is do I need a DAC or can I rely on the DAC of my iPAD and MacBook?

All you need is an amplifier, no reason not to use the DACs in your apple stuff.

Do I really need balanced output (XLR?) for better sonic reproduction?

Nope, balanced has nothing to do with sound quality.

I am also looking for Noise cancelling wireless HP for my office + occasional casual music? I am eyeing on Bose 35 or 45, Beyerdynamic Aventho Wireless
or anything else. I assume these wireless cannot come close the above HP.

These headphones do not compete. They serve a different purpose. Also consider PXC 550-II for BT/NC

 

[Sprint]

Get this idea out of your mind and you'll see more clearly. You already own something that is good enough, what you're looking for is something different, not better.
If I were you I'd first try to understand what I don't like about the DT 770 and what kind of headphones I'm looking for. You seem to look for something better without even knowing what better would mean, and I doubt someone could help you.

Each headphone has pros and cons, even the ones hat cost $30k.

@Sombreuil Thanks! Fully agree with you. I haven't heard to another headphones other than my DT770 and AirPods Pro. Do I miss anything in DT770 - The answer is as you said I do not know. I enjoyed listening to them for almost a year. DT770 was my first professional headphones. I want to give it to my dad and look for the next upgrade. I was fascinated by what open back headphones can produce and hence was looking. DT770 is not reviewed in ASR and hence from measurements do not know how DT770 fares. Ranking in RTINGS and crinacle is low for DT770. Crinacle has some measurements though.

 

[Sprint]

question... do you plan to EQ ?
When you do all mentioned headphones are usable and it becomes a comfort/price/fit thing.

@solderdude Thanks for the recommendations.

I do plan to EQ. But not sure which software to use in my MacBook and iPAD. I will go with the assumption that I will not EQ.

All you need is an amplifier, no reason not to use the DACs in your apple stuff.

Would a portable AMP can drive a Sundara e.g. Fiio BTR5 that I have, THX Onyx or DDHifi TC44B that's reviewed by amirm? If not I will purchase a Topping L30 and I assume should be able to drive Sundara's or any future HPs that I will buy.

 

[Paolo]

Sundara and HD560S.

All you need is an amplifier, no reason not to use the DACs in your apple stuff.

I mostly agree.

But I will advise to buy both, Sundara and HD560S, and wait for the amplifier. You don’t really need it for those two headphones, but some more juice than what the phone can give will be nice to have more headroom.

The HS560S is a really good HP, balanced and, crucial for your way of listening, extremely comfortable, not only to wear in general, but even to sleep with in bed, it is totally smooth on the surface and you will never hurt yourself with metal parts, spikes etc.
The HD5 series from Sennheiser is their most “solid” one, unfortunately the 560s has a strong clamp force when new, it gets way better with time and I strongly suggest to let the headphone rest on a large object, the product box is perfect, this will address the clamping force in a week or so.

The Sundara on the other end is more like a weapon in bed, I still listen to them while resting, but I have to be careful with movements… that said the headphone is still really comfortable on your head, so don’t get me wrong, the sensitive part is the bed listening. Driver performance is extremely good for the price, with a good FR and tolerance for EQ, in my opinion is also a pretty great companion for the HD560S, the cups feels way more open than the Sennheise, just like the soundstage. My subjective impression is that the Sundara has better detail than the HD560S, but the difference in how you feel the sound makes me go back and forth between the two.

Most of the time I don’t use an amp with my iPhone, so you may just skip it, not necessary at all, it will give you more volume but with my Hip DAC, for instance, I will not get over halfway the volume knob in low gain mode or it gets too loud…

 

[Sprint]

I mostly agree.

But I will advise to buy both, Sundara and HD560S, and wait for the amplifier. You don’t really need it for those two headphones, but some more juice than what the phone can give will be nice to have more headroom.

The HS560S is a really good HP, balanced and, crucial for your way of listening, extremely comfortable, not only to wear in general, but even to sleep with in bed, it is totally smooth on the surface and you will never hurt yourself with metal parts, spikes etc.
The HD5 series from Sennheiser is their most “solid” one, unfortunately the 560s has a strong clamp force when new, it gets way better with time and I strongly suggest to let the headphone rest on a large object, the product box is perfect, this will address the clamping force in a week or so.

The Sundara on the other end is more like a weapon in bed, I still listen to them while resting, but I have to be careful with movements… that said the headphone is still really comfortable on your head, so don’t get me wrong, the sensitive part is the bed listening. Driver performance is extremely good for the price, with a good FR and tolerance for EQ, in my opinion is also a pretty great companion for the HD560S, the cups feels way more open than the Sennheise, just like the soundstage. My subjective impression is that the Sundara has better detail than the HD560S, but the difference in how you feel the sound makes me go back and forth between the two.

Most of the time I don’t use an amp with my iPhone, so you may just skip it, not necessary at all, it will give you more volume but with my Hip DAC, for instance, I will not get over halfway the volume knob in low gain mode or it gets too loud…

@Paolo: Thanks a lot for helping! Do you EQ both the HPs? Which software do you use? I do have Fiio BTR5 and I plan to use with these HPs to have more headroom.

 

[solderdude]

BTR5 is a nice device with a 10 band tone control which is more than sufficient to apply accurate EQ.
On SE out it can deliver 8mW in 300 ohm, on and 25mW in balanced mode.
Enough in most cases but would require balanced cables.

I would say just try both headphones on it an when you find you want to go louder or sound 'cleaner' at higher listening levels buy a desktop amp.

 

[Paolo]

@Paolo: Thanks a lot for helping! Do you EQ both the HPs? Which software do you use? I do have Fiio BTR5 and I plan to use with these HPs to have more headroom.

On the Mac i use the built in EQ of the RME ADI2 DAC, on the phone I go without. But if the BTR5 has the EQ you’re already set, sorry but on my first reading of your post I misread that you didn't have an amplifier…

 

[gags11]

I bought these cheap JBL BT headphones. They sound awesome and don'e need to worry about DAC. These are my first headphones and I am really impressed. My 2-channel is KEF R11 w/sub as a reference.

I got this for $59 on sale from Microcenter. I think this must be the best audio purchase I have ever made.