Headphone choice and Hair Length?!

[Robbo99999]

I gotta say I think I may have noticed something a little strange recently. I've been growing my hair the past year and I think it's affected my headphone listening. K702 has been my favourite headphone over the last few years (EQ'd to Harman like all my headphones) which I've been mostly using exclusively this whole year, but today I decided to try some of my other headphones and NAD HP50 that used to be a bass monster is now very difficult to place correctly on my head to get good bass (I think it's the longer hair interfering). I then tried my Hifiman HE4XX and wow did that bass kick in along with some very impressively balanced tonality overall - I found that seriously impressive. I think what's been happening is that as my hair has grown longer & longer this year it's gradually affected how some headphones sit on my head, I have a feeling the K702 and the NAD HP50 have become more & more bass anemic the longer my hair has gotten, and I've only just noticed that now I've switched to my Hifiman HE4XX - the HE4XX has deep and soft pads that very reliably create a good seal and I think placement variation is less with this headphone. So I think the large soft pads of the HE4XX can deal with the thicker hair, perhaps where the hair line meets the skin the soft pads can fill in the gaps at that join. I thought I'd communicate my experience because I reckon hair length really could influence the headphones that could be most suitable for a person - I EQ all my headphones to the Harman Curve, so they should have similar tonality and they did when I had really short hair (#3 on the sides), but now it's grown out for over a year they sound quite different to one another.....I'm quite sure it's the long hair messing with the pad seals in different ways on the different headphones. If you've got long hair you might want to choose a headphone with large soft earpads that create a reliable seal, as one of your pre-requisites - obviously not the only reason to choose a headphone, but one of the factors.

Has anyone else had similar experiences?

 

[Pretorious]

I can imagine the seal on headphones being effected by hair length or thickness, but have not noticed such things myself. I think this would be more of an issue with closed headphones. Admittedly, it’s been many years since I’ve had short hair, now I always wear mine shoulder-length or longer. So, my experience is out of date; yet each time I went to longer hair I never noticed a noticeable difference in the way my wonted headphones sounded.

I do always wear my hair back instead of parted to each side, and I make sure to always brush it back on the sides of my head before putting headphones on, mostly to avoid stray hairs getting caught in the plastic seams or elsewhere. But also it’s strange to me to throw headphones over any hair drooping over my ears. With doing so, it’s likely that the thickness at the side of my head is mostly unchanged from when I had shorter hair.

The one thing I can say is that I’ve found it impossible to take them off without pulling hairs in some way. They never get caught on or in the headphone itself, but I’ll grab some stragglers with my fingers as I remove the cups. Ouch! Make sure to be gentle.

I hope these musings of a long-haired man has helped some.

 

[Robbo99999]

I can imagine the seal on headphones being effected by hair length or thickness, but have not noticed such things myself. I think this would be more of an issue with closed headphones. Admittedly, it’s been many years since I’ve had short hair, now I always wear mine shoulder-length or longer. So, my experience is out of date; yet each time I went to longer hair I never noticed a noticeable difference in the way my wonted headphones sounded.

I do always wear my hair back instead of parted to each side, and I make sure to always brush it back on the sides of my head before putting headphones on, mostly to avoid stray hairs getting caught in the plastic seams or elsewhere. But also it’s strange to me to throw headphones over any hair drooping over my ears. With doing so, it’s likely that the thickness at the side of my head is mostly unchanged from when I had shorter hair.

The one thing I can say is that I’ve found it impossible to take them off without pulling hairs in some way. They never get caught on or in the headphone itself, but I’ll grab some stragglers with my fingers as I remove the cups. Ouch! Make sure to be gentle.

I hope these musings of a long-haired man has helped some.

Ha, thanks for the reply! I definitely brush my hair back away from my ears before putting my headphones on, so no way would I leave hair hanging over my ears as I put my headphones on. Which headphones do you have, maybe they already have large soft earpads on them? Or it could be that you might not have noticed the change considering you've had long hair for many years.

 

[Robbo99999]

Did some more listening today with my K702 that I had noticed that the bass was being affected by my longer hair....I've found it's not as bad a I thought, I think the longer hair has made it more susceptible to "bad" headphone mountings, so I think it means that the bass response could be a bit more variable from one headphone seating to the next.....so I still think deep/soft earpads are something to look for in a headphone if you have long hair, but it doesn't have to rule out other headphones, but I think it will make the placement of your headphone on your head a bit more variable and more difficult to get right otherwise. Damn, I wish my HE4XX had the spatial soundstage characteristics of my K702 as well as some of the vocal nuance details! No doubt that my EQ'd HE4XX nails tonality everytime I wear it, the quality of the bass and the overall tonality is just sooo spot on with the Oratory EQ (totally HiFi if you pardon my usage!), just it lacks a bit those two elements I mentioned. I've really not experienced a headphone with such nailed tonality as my Harman EQ'd HE4XX, it's gotta be pointed out! (EQ'ing up the bass to Harman levels all the way down to 20Hz on the K702 can't provide the same tonality even.....I think the planar drivers of the HE4XX are so capable in the bass range that they faithfully reproduce everything down to 20Hz (after EQ of course) and I think this is the crucial aspect in helping to really nail tonality when combined with the reliable headphone seating).

 

[Pretorious]

Which headphones do you have, maybe they already have large soft earpads on them?

As I think of it, all of my headphones have had large and soft earpads. I try to always buy those kind because I have the added detriment of wearing glasses and find that bigger cups/pads fit better and with less pain/pressure. The headphones I currently use are the DT 770, AKG K701 (not too different than your 702s), and HD 600 (the ones I wear most often).

IME, the 701/702s have been the least affected by any sort of mounting differences on my own ears. This is mostly because the clamping force is so light on these phones, they just rest nicely on my head.

Although I will add that I have noticed I am more affected by the positioning of the cups rather than the mounting, in itself. That is, I can rotate the cups ever so slightly, or move them equally slightly, and notice a shift in how I perceive the sound. But it is so subtle that I get used to it almost immediately. Perhaps this is something you could also be aware of?

I also don't EQ currently, so the bass is what it is on all of these phones. It is likely then that there isn't enough bass from them (aside from the Beyer's) for me to notice such a shift between positioning and hair length.

 

[Robbo99999]

As I think of it, all of my headphones have had large and soft earpads. I try to always buy those kind because I have the added detriment of wearing glasses and find that bigger cups/pads fit better and with less pain/pressure. The headphones I currently use are the DT 770, AKG K701 (not too different than your 702s), and HD 600 (the ones I wear most often).

IME, the 701/702s have been the least affected by any sort of mounting differences on my own ears. This is mostly because the clamping force is so light on these phones, they just rest nicely on my head.

Although I will add that I have noticed I am more affected by the positioning of the cups rather than the mounting, in itself. That is, I can rotate the cups ever so slightly, or move them equally slightly, and notice a shift in how I perceive the sound. But it is so subtle that I get used to it almost immediately. Perhaps this is something you could also be aware of?

I also don't EQ currently, so the bass is what it is on all of these phones. It is likely then that there isn't enough bass from them (aside from the Beyer's) for me to notice such a shift between positioning and hair length.

Yes, your K701 is extremely similar to my K702 as seen in the frequency response difference (ie not much!), that's a Crinacle K701 measurement and an Oratory K702 measurement compared:

In absence of any frequency response graphs proving otherwise, I would think your DT770 would be least affected by our long hair, given that I know the Beyer pads are very soft.....the pads on the HD600 & K702 (which I have both) are really quite firm when it comes to pad softness, so I tend to think they're most likely to be affected. If you've not tried the HE4XX you'd find those pads to be as soft as velvet from the heavens when combined with feathers! So in the scheme of things I think you'd find the HE4XX would give you the most reliable seal with your glasses & hair given all the headphones you've listed.

They're some nice headphone choices you've purchased there, the K701 & HD600, which is basically mirroring my K702 and HD600......you know what.....I'm not surprised you like your HD600 the most given that you don't use EQ.....the HD600 is beautiful without EQ, and a stark contrast to any other headphone I've tried without EQ. But, if you've not really tried EQ then I think you should, particularly on your other two headphones, the DT770 and the K701 because they are quite wayward from what most people would find an ideal frequency response......but your HD600 I would almost leave that alone and not use EQ because the most beautiful characteristics of the HD600 in terms of vocals and mids are most unclouded when used without EQ in my experience, and that's coming from a proponent of the Headphone Harman Curve! Part of the reason for that is that the HD600 already tracks real close to the Harman Curve in the mids & treble, and boosting up the bass to Harman levels whilst enjoyable on a lot of headphones tends to take away a little of the magical beauty of the mids & treble of the HD600 when it comes to vocals and some instruments. Soundstage is not very good on the HD600, but that's another topic. So coming back to EQ, definitely have a go at trying some Oratory EQ's on your other headphones (leave the HD600 alone perhaps): https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets#wiki_full_list_of_eq_settings.3A

Actually, I think you're right in the assessment in your last sentence, where you say "It is likely then that there isn't enough bass from them (aside from the Beyer's) for me to notice such a shift between positioning and hair length." - that makes a lot of sense to me, because the bass really rolls off quickly for stock K701 / K702 / HD600, yes & so you're less likely to notice additional roll off of the bass from inadequate seals......if you EQ'd them then it'd probably be a different story and were comparing them against say an HE4XX that had also been EQ'd to the same curve.

 

[Pretorious]

I would think your DT770 would be least affected by our long hair, given that I know the Beyer pads are very soft.....the pads on the HD600 & K702 (which I have both) are really quite firm when it comes to pad softness, so I tend to think they're most likely to be affected.

I think you are right, good observation. The Beyer's would be able to adapt more due to the more flexible pad; the AKG's especially do not clamp enough to even depress the pads, at least on me. This could limit the fluctuations in FR, but may also be conducive to other problems you've described. The HD 600 are a happy medium, I find.

I am very intrigued about the HiFiMan when you mention them in that way. I didn't really need more temptation to headphones, but I have been considering these for a while for various reasons. Thanks for the recommendation!

I don't plan on using any EQ with my HD 600 precisely because I find them so excellent without. They have such a superb balance for my taste and ears. Classical is pretty much all I listen to and these are perfect for that.

 

[Wes]

 

[Robbo99999]

I think you are right, good observation. The Beyer's would be able to adapt more due to the more flexible pad; the AKG's especially do not clamp enough to even depress the pads, at least on me. This could limit the fluctuations in FR, but may also be conducive to other problems you've described. The HD 600 are a happy medium, I find.

I am very intrigued about the HiFiMan when you mention them in that way. I didn't really need more temptation to headphones, but I have been considering these for a while for various reasons. Thanks for the recommendation!

I don't plan on using any EQ with my HD 600 precisely because I find them so excellent without. They have such a superb balance for my taste and ears. Classical is pretty much all I listen to and these are perfect for that.

About your HD600, I was discussing them with a guy in another thread just now, and he said he used them at stock but with just one EQ filter applied: Low Shelf at 75Hz with +5dB Gain....I tried it and it was good that way. I finetuned it down to +3dB Gain as I felt that blended seamlessly into the rest of the frequency response and still allowed the HD600 to retain it's unEQ'd "ethos". So praps try a +3dB Low Shelf at 75Hz for your HD600 and leave everything else stock - very impressed I was with that just now. In fact I'll probably be importing that modified frequency response into REW and setting it as a target for my other headphones that have better spatial properties....I'm quite intrigued to see how they'll respond to mimicking the the HD600 with that Low Shelf boost. Here's the post where we were discussing it: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...phones-and-updated-his-pdfs.18152/post-830074
(You'll have to put in a -3dB Negative Preamp of course if you're adding a +3dB Low Shelf, just saying because don't know how much you know about EQ, and it will be horrible with digital clipping if you don't put in the Negative Preamp)

In my experience the Hifiman HE4XX wouldn't have the resolution of the HD600 in the vocals, but sometime I'll be doing that experiment where I EQ that headphone to the same curve that I talked about in the above paragraph, so I can't discount it totally from that point of view until I've tried matching the frequency response of the HD600. Yeah, but the HE4XX does bass so well that you can drive it all the way down the 20Hz with really good bass definition, so that can really help overall tonality, combined with the great & reliable seal / mounting it has on our heads (perhaps especially because of our long hair we talked about).

 

[Pretorious]

Interesting! I shall be sure to try that when I decide to EQ my HD600. Thanks for the recommendation.

One of the reasons I was considering the HiFiMan was because I was looking for something better for seal with my glasses, and now the whole hair thing would be an added bonus. Plus I was interested in the different tonality with the flatter bass. You do make a compelling argument for it!

 

[Robbo99999]

Interesting! I shall be sure to try that when I decide to EQ my HD600. Thanks for the recommendation.

One of the reasons I was considering the HiFiMan was because I was looking for something better for seal with my glasses, and now the whole hair thing would be an added bonus. Plus I was interested in the different tonality with the flatter bass. You do make a compelling argument for it!

The Hifiman HE4XX with Oratory's EQ is really a very good headphone, best overall tonality of any of his EQ's of my other headphones. If you can fairly easily justify the $180 (I imported mine to the UK) then I'm gonna recommend them to you, especially if you like some bass, best headphones I have for bass. Another plus point of the HE4XX is that Oratory said that that the unit to unit variation was very good for that headphone, one of the best he's seen.....he didn't tell me directly, it's via another guy on here that has an HE4XX and sent his in for measuring (Oratory has measured a load of HE4XX, including one from Oluf Gadgets apparently, if I recall). So I think that's one of the reasons why I find the HE4XX EQ from Oratory so good - low unit to unit variation combined with a headphone that can do bass really really well. Oh yeah, and Oratory apparently said that it was one of the easiest headphones he's ever measured in terms of ease of seal and not a great lot of difference seen from seating variation on the head either.....so I'd say it's a super consistent headphone experience, definitely use the Oratory EQ though to the Harman Curve because I can't speak anything of stock headphones, I never use stock headphones apart from the HD600 (which is close to the Harman Curve). Yeah, HE4XX is my most impressive headphone from tonality perspective.


EDIT: one last point on the HE4XX, if you've got a big head you'll probably need to work the headband in the opposite direction to loosen it up - it was too tight for me and the tightness gave me some short-lived (hours) tinnitus somehow and general discomfort. I worked them by bending them sensibly in the opposite direction, and the clamping force is perfect for me now, so no issues.

 

[Pretorious]

Thankfully, I have a small head, a fact that having long hair may help to remedy some.

These are definitely on my list now for next pair of headphones should I need something for work at my desk, or general listening. I’m interested in hearing a planar, too.

 

[Robbo99999]

Thankfully, I have a small head, a fact that having long hair may help to remedy some.

These are definitely on my list now for next pair of headphones should I need something for work at my desk, or general listening. I’m interested in hearing a planar, too.

Yes, that was the first reason I looked in their direction, I wanted a planar headphone....so that I could build up a collection of good examples of headphones (without breaking the bank) from different technologies: open back dynamic driver / closed back dynamic driver / planar. HE4XX is open back planar, I don't have closed back planar, but I also think I wouldn't have much to learn from closed back planar.....I think the main variables are driver type / closed-back / open-back rather than having to try all permutations. In terms of trying planar, then I think most is to be learned by trying openback planar, because I think it would highlight the ability of that driver to offer clean & deep EQ boosted bass (in contrast to open back dynamic), whereas trying closedback planar you've already got the bass reinforcement from the closed back design, so you're not relying on the pure potential of the planar driver to brute force the bass to high enough levels - and the point is you can rely on planar drivers to brute force drive up the bass with EQ, so if you go planar then openback is the best way to go to see the distinction of the driver and a better overall experience as open-back vs closed-back normally wins from a soundstage & sound quality perspective.

Ah, you may not need to work the headband on the HE4XX then, but if you feel any discomfort then you can always work them to loosen them up.

 

[Mynice]

The K702 is also very sensitive to glasses.

 

[Robbo99999]

The K702 is also very sensitive to glasses.

Did you get that from solderdude's website (diyaudioheaven), as I think he measures that variable? Show us a link if you can.