Headphone amp you like better than RME ADI-2 DAC's amp?

[Strumbringer]

I have owned the RME ADI-2 DAC for several months and it's my first piece of hi-fi gear, other than headphones, I had bought. I've run my ADI-2 into a few different tube amps and I've noted that I don't think I'm a tube amp guy and didn't care for the coloration. I believe I'm more a solid state analytical listener (term I'm read a few times) and appreciate details, clear imaging, and accurate presentation.

I own two pair of 300 Ohm headphones (ZMF) and my quick math indicates that they require about 200 mW and 7.7 volts and the ADI-2 headphone section provides 310 mW and 10 volts, so these data indicate adequate power to properly run my headphones. More importantly, they sound good!

I've read exceptional reviews of the Benchmark HP4 and Topping A90 here and elsewhere and I'm curious if either are a step-up (subjectively, of course) in sound quality to what I already have. I know the ADI-2 DAC measures exceptionally well, but I'm more interested in qualitative thoughts on other headphone amps. Some have stated they hear improved staging, slam, etc. vs. the ADI-2 DAC and others have stated no difference. Is it possible that my simple, small, ADI-2 DAC is an endgame amp as well as an incredibly nice DAC?

 

[storing]

Is it possible that my simple, small, ADI-2 DAC is an endgame amp as well as an incredibly nice DAC?

Essentially, yes. Perhaps there are tiny audiable differences with other DACs/amps, but when you're looking in those ranges of gear you should really decide on functionality first, in my opinion.

 

[Strumbringer]

Essentially, yes. Perhaps there are tiny audiable differences with other DACs, but when you're looking in those ranges of gear you should really decide on functionality first, in my opinion.

Thanks- the DAC functionality of my ADI-2 is everything I’ve ever wanted. Mostly curious about the amp vs pairing with an external amp.

 

[LTig]

Thanks- the DAC functionality of my ADI-2 is everything I’ve ever wanted. Mostly curious about the amp vs pairing with an external amp.

The RME amp is SOTA. Remember that all measurements you see of it do include the performance of the DAC so they cannot be compared with measurements of an amp alone.

Edit: @MC_RME once wrote in a posting that it makes no sense to add a headphone amp to the ADI-2, at least as long as the builtin amp has enough power to drive your headphone.

 

[storing]

it makes no sense to add a headphone amp to the ADI-2, at least as long as the builtin amp has enough power to drive your headphone.

Yeah I should have mentioned that as well explicitly. I don't think there are many headphones which would need more power, if any?

 

[Zensō]

Some have stated they hear improved staging, slam, etc. vs. the ADI-2 DAC and others have stated no difference. Is it possible that my simple, small, ADI-2 DAC is an endgame amp as well as an incredibly nice DAC?

Some people believe in Santa Claus and UFOs. Your RME is endgame.

 

[f1shb0n3]

I've read exceptional reviews of the Benchmark HP4 and Topping A90 here and elsewhere and I'm curious if either are a step-up (subjectively, of course) in sound quality to what I already have.

I had Topping A30 headphone amp (very similar measurements to A90) for a bit and compared it with RME ADI-2’s headphone amp using an instant AB switch. The only difference I heard was the channel imbalance of A30 caused by its analog volume pot.

Don’t be tempted to upgrade the ADI-2 DAC to anything for sound quality reason, there’s no such upgrade from it.

 

[3125b]

Before I got my ADI-2 Pro FS (same performance as DAC FS in unbalanced HPA mode) I had an E30+Atom stack - there is no audible difference.

 

[Strumbringer]

Don’t be tempted to upgrade the ADI-2 DAC to anything for sound quality reason, there’s no such upgrade from it.

- there is no audible difference.

Thanks- These are the types of statements I'm hoping to confirm from the ASR community. As someone who is relatively new to hi-end HiFi equipment (and as you all very well know), there is a TON of information out there and on other forums, basically insisting that one must go a certain direction with their purchases or they are gravely missing out/doing something wrong.

I read many reviews and got recommendations on the RME ADI-2 DAC before purchasing it last year. I'm thoroughly happy with the DAC features and especially the EQ. Likewise, I read many reviews on my ZMF headphones were able to audition them before purchase and then felt confident to buy a second different model from ZMF as well.

Lastly, it is very easy to start questioning myself when I read emphatic, poetic, and assertive declarations of how pairing the ADI-2 with an external amp, like the ones I mentioned in my first post, will significantly improve (not kidding- one member on ASR stated that his new amp was "heaps better" than the ADI-2 amp) the sound experience. So, it's hard to know what to believe! Are my ears satisfied? Forum member so-and-so insists I'm missing out. Another guy on another forum scolds me, stating the ADI-2 amp is not powerful enough to drive the headphones I own (even though I did the math, calculated required power, and confirmed via correspondence with Matthias at RME- this forum member elsewhere says I'm wrong).

Hoping more members will provide input and votes here. Thank you all, thus far.

 

[The French]

The RME ADI-2 is not really endgame to me.
The DAC and AMP sections are great, and I'm very happy with it, don't get me wrong.
Soundwise, I'm pretty sure I won't hear anything better.

But it does have some extra features, and I think there is still a lot to improve on those.
First, the UX. It's a bit odd. Having to click to scroll, and turn to select, is disturbing.
I will maybe get used to that, but it's clearly not user friendly.
Again, most DAC don't even have menus...so I'm maybe being picky.

For the same reason, I should probably not criticise the EQ of that dac (as it does have an EQ !), but being limited to 5 bands is a real pain in 2022.
When you use APO/Peace on a PC, you have access to 10 bands. With the Jaako Pasanen' database, you're good to perfectly EQed almost any HP.
On Android phones, you can even use Wavelet, which is (once you've opened the right access) very easy to use.
As the RME-ADI2 is limited to 5 bands, you simply cannot use any EQ of that database. Or you can apply 50% of each.

So even if EQ is a great feature, I know it will be almost useless to me, as I don't have neither the tools nor the skills, to properly EQ my own headphones.

So a 10 bands EQ (Or a tool to make a 5 bands EQ from a 10 bands EQ, but I've heard it's technically impossible) and a better UX...it would probably be endgame.

 

[storing]

Being limited to 5 bands is a real pain in 2022

In any year basically But, if you include bass/treble controls, and the last firmware update helps with that, it's actually 7 bands (5 PEQ + 2 shelf EQs).

Though I agree it's unfortunate that currently there are no easy point-and-click ways to get such 7-band EQ out of the box from e.g. AutoEQ (see https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/issues/102 for the request, vote for it I'd say). There are other ways like manually playing around with REW until you get a good fit for instance. And Oratory supplies for some popular headphones presets especially for the ADI: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets_rme_adi-2.

I do think that given some time we'll get more capable software in this space.

I will maybe get used to that, but it's clearly not user friendly.

You'll get used to it. I think that given the size of the device and number of buttons, it's hard to do much better. But compared to other types of user interfaces: yeah we're spoiled, as far as friendliness there are better things for sure.

 

[Mario Sanchez]

While I don’t own an ADI-2, The internal amp should be good enough for anything but the most hard-to-drive (like less modern planars) cans…

 

[3125b]

I had the improved DC protection RME added with the last update kick in just now:

That's definitely a plus. In case anyone wants to test it: Joan Baez - Joan Baez (1960) via Apple Music or Spotify

 

[Strumbringer]

I’ve been quite happy with the 5-band + 2-band treble/bass. If they eventually update to a 10-band, great! Until then, no complaints.

Slight tangent, as the thread is about the headphone amp in the RME ADI-2 vs external amps. Carry on.

 

[radix]

Slight tangent, as the thread is about the headphone amp in the RME ADI-2 vs external amps. Carry on.

I use the ADI-2 with 250 ohm DT770 down to 12 ohm Noire. Even in low power mode, I find it plenty loud. Maybe I'm just overly protective of the hearing I still have.

I use external active speakers. I like having the line out setup for the actives and the phono out for headphones. If I were to use an external headphone amp, I think I'd drive it from the headphone output at line level. Really, I'd likely go with the HPA2 and use the ADI-2 in DAC mode. But I don't need a $3k headphone amp. I don't hear anything missing from the RME.

 

[Bernd]

Well, here is my experience. I bought my ADI 2 DAC FS about 2 years ago after having gone through a couple of other DAC/AMP combos from Topping and SMSL. I love all the feature of the RME (esp the EQ), and I was very happy with the sound of the amp section too (my headphones are HD6XX, Sundara, LCD-X, Arya). About 6 weeks ago, a friend of mine bought an A90 and told me that he was 'blown away' by it, and if I wanted to check it out with him on my ADI 2. We did that beginning of February and my first impression was "WOW, this is different", but I could not nail down "why" it was different and "how much".
Anyway, to make a long story short. I own a second-hand A90 myself now, and I can describe the difference this amp make to me a little better:
1. the main difference is that with the A90 the music seems to have come "alive" . When listening with the Sundara and even more so with Arya, the headphones seem to disappear as the in-between of music and my ears/brain.
2. bass and deep bass have become more 'natural' or 'musical' and seem to fit the rest of the music way better than with the built in amp of the ADI DAC.
Today, I am still more that happy with the RME as a DAC, but for me the A90 was a great upgrade to it. Voila

 

[storing]

We did that beginning of February and my first impression was "WOW, this is different"

This was without EQ/crossfeed/bass/treble/stereo/other adjustments, and matching volume?

 

[gomar]

I just sold my D90/A90 stack because I could not hear a difference with an apple dongle on an efficient headphone like the Ananda.
(I don't own any inefficient headphones)

Another eye opener was the dac abx test that someone is running here between the FiiO D03K and the Topping E50.
After doing these tests myself selling the stack was a nobrainer. Nicer speakers / subwoofer incoming.
Headphones are never going to reproduce sound in a natural way anyhow.

DAC ABX Test Phase 1: Does a SOTA DAC sound the same as a budget DAC if proper controls are put in place? Spoiler: Probably yes. :)

This thread is meant to once and for all settle the age-old question on whether different non-broken DACs have a "sound" or if all DACs sound the same! :cool: ...just kidding - those debates will probably never end. :p Let me start by providing the link to the ABX test. Note: There are 16...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Bernd]

This was without EQ/crossfeed/bass/treble/stereo/other adjustments, and matching volume?

Each of the headphones has its own settings on the RME which use EQ, bass, treble, loudness (all other settings are the factory defaults). When switching from the ADI's internal amp to the A90, I match the volume (with my human ears Mk.1) but all other settings stay the same.

 

[Yuhasz01]

Thanks- These are the types of statements I'm hoping to confirm from the ASR community. As someone who is relatively new to hi-end HiFi equipment (and as you all very well know), there is a TON of information out there and on other forums, basically insisting that one must go a certain direction with their purchases or they are gravely missing out/doing something wrong.

I read many reviews and got recommendations on the RME ADI-2 DAC before purchasing it last year. I'm thoroughly happy with the DAC features and especially the EQ. Likewise, I read many reviews on my ZMF headphones were able to audition them before purchase and then felt confident to buy a second different model from ZMF as well.

Lastly, it is very easy to start questioning myself when I read emphatic, poetic, and assertive declarations of how pairing the ADI-2 with an external amp, like the ones I mentioned in my first post, will significantly improve (not kidding- one member on ASR stated that his new amp was "heaps better" than the ADI-2 amp) the sound experience. So, it's hard to know what to believe! Are my ears satisfied? Forum member so-and-so insists I'm missing out. Another guy on another forum scolds me, stating the ADI-2 amp is not powerful enough to drive the headphones I own (even though I did the math, calculated required power, and confirmed via correspondence with Matthias at RME- this forum member elsewhere says I'm wrong).

Hoping more members will provide input and votes here. Thank you all, thus far.

Cruise the RME Forum for technical issues provided by knowledgeable people and teacnical measurement data, etc