Headphone amp used as pre-amp

[leo2]

Hello everyone,
I am a new member on this forum and I have a question about pre-amps.
My current pre-amp is close to broken down and is too old to consider repair.
My budget for a new pre-amp is somewhere between 300 an 600 euro (about the same amount in dollars).
I will use it mainly as dedicated pre-amp, but I will also want to be able to listen with headphones.
When I look at the possibilities in this price range I see a lot of headphone-amps with the added advantage of a pre-amp.
On my list are Topping A90, Schitt Jotunheim, Gustard H16 and SMSL HO200.
When I look at the reviews however they are primarily judged on their ability as headphone-amp which for me is of secondary importance.
Is there anyone who can tell me something about the pre-amp performance of the mentioned amps?
Much obliged

 

[solderdude]

It is always slightly better performance than the headphone measurements at 300ohm load.
This is simply because the output IS the actual headphone amp out. Sometimes attenuated a bit or with some extra series resistance.
Low self noise (so high S/N ratio at 50mV) may be an important factor as well as output voltage or balanced out.

Most people have multiple inputs on their pre-ampm maybe even phono input and functions like balance etc.
I assume you do not need this.
In which case, unless you need a lot of gain, you could omit the entire pre-amp and use digital volume control from a DAC or music source.

 

[leo2]

So it would be a save bet to use one of the mentioned amps.
I do need a pre-amp: It makes it more convenient to switch between my DAC and Phono pre, which have no volume control of their own.
Balanced input for my DAC and single ended input for the Phono pre.
Thanks very much.

 

[Skifaster]

Leo, I was looking for much the same functionality as you, and preamp performance was more important to me than headphone. I agree with solderdude and have read in many forums that for most of these devices the performance preout and headphone out is the same or very similar. I had the Gustard H16 for a while and it was a solid performer, but the others you mentioned would be great as well

 

[shrimp_dude]

How about the Sabaj a10h? Relay controlled volume so perfect channel matching. You can choose from preamp / headphone out with retained volume settings.

I can get loud volume on a Hifiman HE1000v2 at gain setting 2 of 3. This is my dedicated preamp for a vintage integrated amp that only needs a little power.

Bonus points for being very affordable.

 

[leo2]

Looks great, but I do need two inputs (and if possible one of which is balanced)

By the way, my power-amp is a Croft 7R.

 

[Nordling]

Hello Leo, you mentioned the Topping A90, Schitt Jotunheim, Gustard H16 and SMSL HO200. You could add the new Topping L70 to that list. The L70 has a better price (EUR 350). I expect a full review here at ASR very soon. By the way, I don't know exactly about the others but the Gustard H16 and Topping L70 have a stepped relay volume control. The SMSL HO200 does not. Just my 2 cents!

 

[Graham849]

I decided today I wanted to connect up all my old gear thru a preamp to my AO -200.

I was looking online @local hifi store tradeins and spotted an Onkyo$350 which I thought would be great, but silly me didn't ring and put ahold on it and when I got to store 'twas sold.

They had a Cambridge Audio but over my budget.

The salesman is in process of updating demo stock and had an old Atoll PR100 on special for $899 , but agreed to sell it for $450.

So now I have a preamp which is also my new headphone amp. Good luck with your search!

 

[Roland68]

Looks great, but I do need two inputs (and if possible one of which is balanced)

By the way, my power-amp is a Croft 7R.

If you're a little DIY savvy, you can build a very high quality multi-input (also balanced) preamp based on the recommended A10h for $300-400.

 

[leo2]

Thanks Nordling, I'll put the Topping L70 on my list.

Hi Graham; The pre-amp which gives me trouble currently is an Atoll PR200. I must admit it does sound very good, but I've got a lot of distortion in one channel going
on and off again.

Roland; Could you give me a link for that?

 

[Graham849]

Thanks Nordling, I'll put the Topping L70 on my list.

Hi Graham; The pre-amp which gives me trouble currently is an Atoll PR200. I must admit it does sound very good, but I've got a lot of distortion in one channel going
on and off again.

Roland; Could you give me a link for that?

Wow, how many years have you had it? I cannot find much info on the PR100, but it sure is driving my headphones well.

 

[leo2]

Wow, how many years have you had it? I cannot find much info on the PR100, but it sure is driving my headphones well.

I bought it around 2005 together with the Atoll 200 power-amp. Didn't like the power amp, so I traded that in for the Croft 7R.
Then later I bought a Threshold Fet 2, but after a while came to the conclusion I liked the Atoll better (better definition and more spacious) so I sold
the Threshold again. Now, sadly, It's giving me trouble. I've read somewhere that the older Atolls suffer from bad soldering, but I'm not sure of that.

 

[leo2]

Graham, do you have the PR100 se or the Pr 100?
There maybe still some information on the manufacturer's website.
https://www.atoll-electronique.com/en/presse-support-2/manuals/

 

[Roland68]

Thanks Nordling, I'll put the Topping L70 on my list.

Hi Graham; The pre-amp which gives me trouble currently is an Atoll PR200. I must admit it does sound very good, but I've got a lot of distortion in one channel going
on and off again.

Roland; Could you give me a link for that?

For example, you need the Sabaj A10h, which already contains the pre-amplification (i.e. the actual function) and the extremely precise relay-based volume control.
For the balanced input, for example, you need a module that in turn occupies one input.
XLR input to RCA converter
You can use a module with a remote control and RCA connectors for input switching.
6-way input switch with remote and 2-way output with RCA
Or you can use a high-quality manual rotary switch for input switching and wire it yourself to RCA sockets.
EIZZ 3 Positionen 4 Pole Signal Source Selector
You also need a module for the power supply and a housing.
The raw cost with cables is under $/€200 plus the A10h.
If you don't choose the housing too small, it could also be expanded with additional balanced inputs, balanced outputs ($/€ 10-30 per module), phono module, etc.

Since you already own a tried and tested preamp, I would be interested in your experience and direct comparison with the A10h, even without the rest.
A10h are currently still available, but it is foreseeable that they will be sold out in the near future.

 

[Graham849]

Graham, do you have the PR100 se or the Pr 100?
There maybe still some information on the manufacturer's website.
https://www.atoll-electronique.com/en/presse-support-2/manuals/

Hi Leo2, I have the older PR100, with the knob to select inputs. I am not sure of year of manufacture. As far as I am aware it has been a demo model in the showroom for a number of years with an atoll amplifier which was purchased a few weeks prior. Thanks for the website but it only has se information. Do you have a circuit diagram as 100 and 200 only differ in transformer and caps as far as I understand? Regards g

 

[leo2]

Hi Leo2, I have the older PR100, with the knob to select inputs. I am not sure of year of manufacture. As far as I am aware it has been a demo model in the showroom for a number of years with an atoll amplifier which was purchased a few weeks prior. Thanks for the website but it only has se information. Do you have a circuit diagram as 100 and 200 only differ in transformer and caps as far as I understand? Regards g

Hi graham, I have the same; PR200 with input selection knob. As far as I know mine was produced round 2005.
I'm sorry, but I cannot help you with a circuit diagram.

 

[leo2]

Since you already own a tried and tested preamp, I would be interested in your experience and direct comparison with the A10h, even without the rest.
A10h are currently still available, but it is foreseeable that they will be sold out in the near future.

Hi Roland, I came across a A10h for € 90,--, so I ordered one.
I will post my impressions in comparison with the Atoll later. As I have no measurement equipment except for my ears, it will be subjective.

 

[Roland68]

Hi Roland, I came across a A10h for € 90,--, so I ordered one.
I will post my impressions in comparison with the Atoll later. As I have no measurement equipment except for my ears, it will be subjective.

Try to compare it really blind and it will be enough for me.

 

[gino1961]

Hi i have found the pot channel unbalance the most annoying issue with some really great units (volume control aside of course)
I am looking for a decent remote controlled volume control unit to try with some power amps i have at hand
For this reason i am waiting with big interest the listening results of the A10h ... to get a discrete volume control with a remote at this price is just unbelievable
A decent attenuator alone costs like the all A10h
Thank you and kind regards, gino

 

[Graham849]

Well I now have two headphone amps as the allure of the azur 650a was too much, the salesman gave me a $50 off price so that was good .

I have all my analog gear plugged into the Atoll, then tape out to Cambridge and line out to AO200.

If the AO200 goes boom, I have backup.