• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Headphone amp recommendations (HE-560 and HD6XX)

trl

Major Contributor
King of Mods
Joined
Feb 28, 2018
Messages
1,979
Likes
2,543
Location
Iasi, RO
Impressive tests done by Frans here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/d9kb768up61eh3b/HD650+modifications.pdf, just check page no. 12 and see how the HD650 modifies its freq/ response, based on amplifier's output resistance. I'd love to see a similar test, but with 8-16 Ohm IEMs, where I'm sure that low-end will get affected by the output impedance of the amplifier.

Also, page no. 13 from the above PDF file covers a very interesting "audiophool" subject: silver vs. copper cables for headphones. I was not surprised at all about Frans' findings. :)
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
16,006
Likes
36,249
Location
The Neitherlands
@solderdude , Frans, would you mind comment "Must offer variable output impedance (the way many manufacturers make their amplifiers sound a bit different) So 3 settings were included" http://garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_015.htm, please? I believe your answer should cover the above couple of post as well.

Many thanks,
Raul.

Those bolded words are Jeremy's (G1217 owner) not mine, I only design the schematics (and not just for G1217) and assist in PCB design.
Looks, sales, manufacturing, warranty and pricing is not influenced by me.

My design philosophy is simple.
When you design an amplifier you may want to build something that can drive (almost) all headphones out there.
This means:
  • Large output voltage swing (to cater for high impedance headphones)
  • Enough output current capabilities (to cater for low impedance headphones)
  • Have adjustable gain (to cater for voltage efficiency differences between headphones)
  • Have adjustable output resistance
The reason for the latter is simple. Some headphones sound 'better' on higher output R, others on lower output R so an amp that is supposed to drive most headphones should be able to cater for this and set by the user.
0.2 Ohm, 33 Ohm and 120 Ohm (this used to be a standard in the old days) seem logical options. There isn't much difference between 22 Ohm, 33 Ohm and 47 Ohm. Also not much between 0 Ohm and 1 Ohm for instance while 'damping factors' can show huge value differences.
Different designs exist to cater for specific types of headphones depending on output stage type.

The 'gain switch' is not really a gain switch in these designs though but rather an input attenuator (which can be changed in value with plug-in module) as there is no overall feedback in this design to make use of the typical non-linearities of tubes. Local feedback is used of course.
For sensitive IEM's noise thus becomes a problem... hence the output attenuator (with low output R) as a remedy and to protect low power rated headphones being connected to a relatively high power amp.

Jeremy wanted tubes so tubes are used for the designs to introduce 2nd harmonic distortion which is amplitude dependent.
Also made a J-FET version for those not wanting tubes but liking 2nd harm. Added in smaller amounts though.
(yes, these amps don't measure well in the THD and noise dept. but done so by design)
As I wanted to cater for the usage of a lot of different tubes I used some 'tricks' as grid leakage currents, gains, anode currents differ widely as well as an automatic (some designs manual) heater config. options.

My opinion is that measurements are just a tool to check for certain basics and think the owner of an amp should decide if he likes the sound/functionality/looks. Those not wanting this can buy other stuff better suited to their needs/wants. It's a free market and people are free to chose what they want/need.
Don't need to cost a fortune either.

The schematics and some relevant specs are published.
A lot of specs are tube dependent and measured with 'well suited' tubes.
So when rolling tubes the specs may differ quite a lot.
This may even lead to sonic differences which is what owners of said amps are after.
These owners like to deviate from the 'wire with gain' philosophy by choice.
Not particularly suited for most ASR folks.:D

P.S. Even though I am mentioned on the website of G1217 and occasionally fix amps (if needed) or offer help/advise for E.U. customers I am not making any money of it nor am I on the payroll.
I am in this for fun and to help out a friend (Jeremy) as well as others incl. some other audio manufacturers.
Have a daytime job (designing/building/servicing/supporting) mostly analog (opto)electronics for railway applications so can do this as a hobby
which costs time and money by definition. As long as it stays 'small' it is fun to do.
Used to work in the audio business (service, design, modifications) though.

That's me in a nutshell.

P.S.: I think @amirm might need to use the AP with a Polaris headamp and see what happens when switching between the 3 output resistors; ideally would be to use some resistors on the outputs, if not real cans. Thank you!

Amir doesn't need to measure any of my amps... they will receive a 'not recommended' label for sure :rolleyes: (really they will as they are specifically designed to perform a certain way which differs from the ASR convention).
On my website there are a lot of headphone measurements that show exactly what happens with the tonal balance of a few headphones.
The effect differs per headphone so cannot be shown in a single measurement nor demonstrated for just one headphone.
 
Last edited:

Imperius

New Member
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
2
Likes
0
I'm currently using a RME ADI-2 Pro FS paired with HD6XX's and pre-fazor LCD-2's. Without EQ the HD6XX can be a bit fatiguing/bright. However they are still a relatively new pair and have not gone through the 300 hour break-in period yet.

Previously I was using a Lyr 2 with HD650's (2006 model) and the sound was more gentle, but lacking in micro dynamics. I'm hoping to find an amp to pair with the RME that will soften the 6XX's a bit.
 
Last edited:

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
16,006
Likes
36,249
Location
The Neitherlands
Sibilance in the HD650/HD6XX ?

Maybe what you are hearing is the subdued upper mids/lower treble of the LCD2 and regard that as a 'flat' reference ?
In this case the HD6XX could be called 'bright' or 'clear' or too 'forward' but would not use the word 'sibilant'.

HD6XX do not change with burn-in (despite many people claimimg this). Instead the brain adapts during this period and the pads soften up so the sound becomes a bit 'warmer'. The driver does not 'change'.
Switching between headphones with different tonal character ensures you need to 'adapt' every time.
The longer you own both headphones the quicker the 'adaptation' of the brain will become.

I see no reason not to connect the line-out of the RME to the Lyr-2... unless you sold it.
 

Imperius

New Member
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
2
Likes
0
Sibilance in the HD650/HD6XX ?

Maybe what you are hearing is the subdued upper mids/lower treble of the LCD2 and regard that as a 'flat' reference ?
In this case the HD6XX could be called 'bright' or 'clear' or too 'forward' but would not use the word 'sibilant'.

HD6XX do not change with burn-in (despite many people claimimg this). Instead the brain adapts during this period and the pads soften up so the sound becomes a bit 'warmer'. The driver does not 'change'.
Switching between headphones with different tonal character ensures you need to 'adapt' every time.
The longer you own both headphones the quicker the 'adaptation' of the brain will become.

I see no reason not to connect the line-out of the RME to the Lyr-2... unless you sold it.

I actually gave away my Lyr 2 and HD650 combo to a coworker of mine who was getting in trouble with the wife for playing his speakers too loudly at night. Thank you for the clarification regarding sibilance vs. bright.

I agree with the drivers not changing in the 6XX, but rather the pads softening which can be attributed to a 'warmer' sound. At present I'm using the RME as a combo DAC/amp. For clarity my sound preference is CA Andromeda (aluminum nozzle v1.5) paired with a Sony ZX2. Plankton is superior out of the RME but it lacks the warmth that the ZX2 possesses.
 

trl

Major Contributor
King of Mods
Joined
Feb 28, 2018
Messages
1,979
Likes
2,543
Location
Iasi, RO
Regarding Hifinan HE-560, >=7V RMS amplifier should do just well, although a 10V RMS headamp might deal better with these power-hungry planars.

I'm using these cans with all of my amps but the Objective2 (I simply don't tryst the output stage, but I'm subjective here). I got very good results with discrete output buffer, but also with LME49609 buffer as well.
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
16,006
Likes
36,249
Location
The Neitherlands
I actually gave away my Lyr 2 and HD650 combo to a coworker of mine who was getting in trouble with the wife for playing his speakers too loudly at night.

I agree with the drivers not changing in the 6XX, but rather the pads softening which can be attributed to a 'warmer' sound. At present I'm using the RME as a combo DAC/amp. For clarity my sound preference is CA Andromeda (aluminum nozzle v1.5) paired with a Sony ZX2. Plankton is superior out of the RME but it lacks the warmth that the ZX2 possesses.

Maybe use the EQ functionality of the RME ?
 
Top Bottom