HDMI to SPDIF Audio Extractors - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4k

[WesParker]

Does anyone know how digital audio extractors like below work?

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Audio-Stereo-Extractor-Converter/dp/B07KRWYN4R/

Now that Amazon Music HD exists, I'm making the switch from Pandora to Amazon's music streaming service. I am already mostly immersed in Amazon's ecosystem. The best feature of Amazon Music, past the lossless streaming, is the casting to Echo devices. As in, you can use an app on a tablet/phone to select music and then cast music to any echo device (or groups of Echo devices). The problem with this is the only Echo device with a digital output is the expensive Echo Link. (I have found some "device hack" articles where people have tapped into the I2S interface of the Echo to extract audio before it sends it to the Echo's DAC, but I'm not dedicated enough for all that)

The Amazon Music app states that you can't cast to Fire TVs, but I've found that I can cast to the Fire TV Stick 4K. I assume this has to do with the version of Fire OS that it runs. Either way, the only easy way I can see to get audio out of the Tv Stick is to use one of these extractors. I know they are capable of downmix/transcoding, but are they also capable of passing the digital signal without modifying it?

If it can, then a $25 Fire Stick and a $20 digital audio extractor makes a pretty decent headend for streaming lossless music with no need for a monitor/HID attached to the streamerz.

Currently I'm using a Fire TV (1st Gen) to output to my Vanatoo T1E speakers. This version of the Fire TV is the only one with a native digital output, and it works well. But I can't cast and must use the TV and remote to choose music to stream. The best solution would be for Amazon to support the casting to this device, but I doubt that will happen.

So, all that to say, does anyone know how the splitters work?

 

[zodiac]

I'm looking at this AmazonBasics unit as well, for use with SACDs and Blu-Rays. Can anyone confirm that the spdif output would be lossless/bitstreamed?

 

[JoachimStrobel]

Years ago I fed my Parasound PDD 1500 (1998) with a cheap Spdif converter like this one and that did work easily.
Now I have a NanoAvr HDA with DIRAC where I wanted to convert the Diraced HDMI out signal to SPDIF to feed my ancient Parasound DAC 2000 (1995).
I tried my old device and it would not work. I did order that amazon basic thing which is metal-heavy. But my Parasound would not sync with the Spdif signal, I could here clicking noises from inside while it tried to latch on. I ordered another type (Amanka) and had the same problem. I ordered a third 40€ type (Deleycon 4K) and it worked!
That still leaves the impression in me, that even as it works, it might not be flawless hence bit-correct, but I can not prove it. Otherwise, my Parasound latches perfectly to all native SPDIF signals. A sound test of these converters might be needed.

 

[maverickronin]

I use this one to get audio from my Nintendo Switch to my RME ADI-2 DAC and it has no trouble locking on to the signal.

Ballparking it from basic technical knowledge, all of those cheap extractor are almost certainly bit perfect since they would need some kind of DSP subsystem in order to be otherwise. They are all probably just HDMI receiver chips that take the audio bit stream and feed it directly to the S/PDIF out, though I haven't done a tear down on mine to actually confirm that.

The compatibility issues are likely because of high jitter on the S/PDIF out which that DAC on the other end may not be able to lock on to.

OTOH, if your DAC can lock onto it it's probably ok.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

If you had that Fire Stick attached to a monitor you could simply run the AMHD app on the streamer itself. The bad news there is that the Fire Sticks, even the newest 4K device, limit the output from AMHD to 16/44.1. The only way that I have found to get AMHD at full resolution, and I've tried many, is to run the AMHD on a Mac or Windows 10 machine, and feed the signal to an external DAC.

 

[WesParker]

Yeah, the problem with using the stick is that its HDMI output only, hence wondering if one of these splitters will be at least as bit correct as the stick processes down to. The app on a phone or tablet can control the new 4K stick without a monitor.. I’m okay with the 16/48,

 

[maverickronin]

Yeah, the problem with using the stick is that its HDMI output only, hence wondering if one of these splitters will be at least as big correct as the stick processes down to. The app on a phone or tablet can control the new 4K stick without a monitor.. I’m okay with the 16/48,

The extractor's output will almost certainly be bit perfect with regard to the input it receives from the Fire stick. It seems other people have had worse luck than me with either QC or DAC compatibility though, so worst case, so you may end up going through a few to find one that your DAC can lock on to.

 

[WesParker]

Well, for now I ordered a PW Link, so I’ll see what I can do with that before I fall back to the Amazon Stick

 

[JoachimStrobel]

I use this one to get audio from my Nintendo Switch to my RME ADI-2 DAC and it has no trouble locking on to the signal.

Ballparking it from basic technical knowledge, all of those cheap extractor are almost certainly bit perfect since they would need some kind of DSP subsystem in order to be otherwise. They are all probably just HDMI receiver chips that take the audio bit stream and feed it directly to the S/PDIF out, though I haven't done a tear down on mine to actually confirm that.

The compatibility issues are likely because of high jitter on the S/PDIF out which that DAC on the other end may not be able to lock on to.

OTOH, if your DAC can lock onto it it's probably ok.

I understand that the PCM signal is interleaved between the video packages whose spacing depends on the resolution/frequency. Latching problems might occur when such extraction is not done precisely. The EDID code of the receiving device will define the resolution, in the case of these extractors, some might bring their own EDID with them, while others have none as they are through wired, meaning the sending device defaults to “a” mode or pick up what is connected on the other side. I believe that this was the problem with my NanoAvr, defaulting to a video scheme that some de-embedder could not decipher. BTW, these boxes are only allowed to extract a 2 channel PCM signal, or convert 6ch PCM into an AC3 stream (some). And only 16/44.

 

[maverickronin]

I understand that the PCM signal is interleaved between the video packages whose spacing depends on the resolution/frequency. Latching problems might occur when such extraction is not done precisely. The EDID code of the receiving device will define the resolution, in the case of these extractors, some might bring their own EDID with them, while others have none as they are through wired, meaning the sending device defaults to “a” mode or pick up what is connected on the other side. I believe that this was the problem with my NanoAvr, defaulting to a video scheme that some de-embedder could not decipher.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that part. That could definitely cause compatibility issues too.

Mine passes though to an Asus PG279 monitor and that combination works fine.

BTW, these boxes are only allowed to extract a 2 channel PCM signal, or convert 6ch PCM into an AC3 stream (some). And only 16/44.

You mean HDCP? That's only if the source has it. Any Bluray would, but I use mine with with a Nintendo Switch and it outputs 48kHz audio. I'd assume 16 bits, but my DAC only tells me the sample rate.

I'd doubt that the Fire stick would enable HDCP on steaming audio either.

 

[JoachimStrobel]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that part. That could definitely cause compatibility issues too.

Mine passes though to an Asus PG279 monitor and that combination works fine.



You mean HDCP? That's only if the source has it. Any Bluray would, but I use mine with with a Nintendo Switch and it outputs 48kHz audio. I'd assume 16 bits, but my DAC only tells me the sample rate.

I'd doubt that the Fire stick would enable HDCP on steaming audio either.

I do not want to bore people repeating my old posts - but HDCP is the reason audio via HDMI is flawed. Everything is HDCPd, you will hardly see a free audio stream via HDMI. As the RedBook CD comes with no copy protection, HDCP rules will allow de-embedding of such a 2ch stream to honor the old system. Everything else is behind walls. People work on solutions via I2s, but once that leaves the niche market, the empires will strike.

 

[maverickronin]

I do not want to bore people repeating my old posts - but HDCP is the reason audio via HDMI is flawed. Everything is HDCPd, you will hardly see a free audio stream via HDMI. As the RedBook CD comes with no copy protection, HDCP rules will allow de-embedding of such a 2ch stream to honor the old system. Everything else is behind walls. People work on solutions via I2s, but once that leaves the niche market, the empires will strike.

Don't disagree with you there. Everyone responsible for it needs to die in their own dumpster fire.

 

[WesParker]

Thanks guys. That’s the kind of info I was looking for. Hopefully the PW Link will work well (I’m not too optimistic that it will) and I wont need to try the fire tv 4k thing. I’ve gotten used to using my old fire tv box as well. If I go through with purchase I’ll report back how it responds in my system.