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HDMI Multichannel extractors

Sprint

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Has anyone used an EU available HDMI extractor like this https://www.amazon.de/.../Con.../dp/B08KRHCPD1/ref=sr_1_5... to feed multichannel RCA signal to amplifiers or aktive speakers in surround set up? If yes, what is your experience and how is the sound quality? I have a Apple 4K TV as a source and can use the Apple 4K TV to control the volume as this extractor does not have volume control! Will I be missing the virtualiser capabilities of a AVR like Dolby surround instead of original striaght signal coming from the source via this extractor? How do they measure or how can I measure?
 

jitl

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I’m new, but this is also a goal I share — the quest to build an AVR from separates! Are you trying to use the HDMI ARC feature from your TV, or just send normal HDMI video+audio+control straight into the extractor? The various control-over-HDMI features are called HDMI-CEC.

I’ve been researching this subject, and to get volume control you will need a more sophisticated processor, rather than just a signal extractor which is too “dumb” to participate in HDMI-CEC or modulate the volume. Here’s the most informative thread I’ve found on the subject: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ork-music-streamer-for-active-speakers.13918/
I’ve looked a bit, and there’s a few different options on the market that could serve you:

- You posted a .de link, maybe you can try the Canton Smart Connect? It does 5.1 pre-amp out and claims to have HDMI-CEC volume control. https://www.canton.de/en/products/smart/smart-connect-5.1

- Just get an AVR with the pre-amp outs that fit your use-case. Many AVRs have at least left and right, and the fancier ones have more channels. You’ll be able to take advantage of whatever EQ, etc, that the AVR has — but also it’s gonna be big and bulky, and you end up paying for a lot of amps you might not care about.

- There’s a class of streamer that bundle a digital streamer, pre-amp out, and a single HDMI ARC input, and sometimes a ~80w stereo amp. The Bluesound Node fits this profile. NAD has several options like the NAD M10 that include an amp.

- there are a couple of AVR “processors” that do have a bunch of channel outputs and no amps, like IOTAVX AVX17 https://www.iotaenterprises.co.uk/products/iotavx-avx17, but there are a few more cheaper options if you search around — I can’t find them in my notes.
 

snickers

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I've tried a few of them, also the never HDFury ones, but never was completely satisfied until I received the one from Essence.
Since then the sound from my "old" Harman improved by a big step!


All the other ones had always one or more issues just making me crazy and just wanting to remove them...
 

jitl

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I've tried a few of them, also the never HDFury ones, but never was completely satisfied until I received the one from Essence.
Since then the sound from my "old" Harman improved by a big step!


All the other ones had always one or more issues just making me crazy and just wanting to remove them...

I have a few questions about the Evolve II-4k. In my initial read over the unit, I dismissed it because it doesn't mention ARC (audio return channel) or CEC (volume control signals) other than CEC bypass. The thing that's most confusing about this space when evaluating a device is wondering, "will my TV remote volume commands change the volume of this dingus's output?". It's not always clear if it will work or not.

Can you tell me more about your experience with Evolve II-4k? I have a few different questions:
  • What does your wiring diagram look like?
  • Can you use your TV (or other HDMI device) remote control to change the volume of the Evolve's outputs?
  • What are the other HDMI finagler units that you tried, and what issues did they have?
I'm down a deep hole trying to find every non-AVR device with HDMI (e)ARC audio input and HDMI-CEC volume control, and I'd hate to go through the same steps as you buying and discarding stuff that works on paper but is full of annoying UX issues, clipping, etc.
 
OP
Sprint

Sprint

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I’m new, but this is also a goal I share — the quest to build an AVR from separates! Are you trying to use the HDMI ARC feature from your TV, or just send normal HDMI video+audio+control straight into the extractor? The various control-over-HDMI features are called HDMI-CEC.

I’ve been researching this subject, and to get volume control you will need a more sophisticated processor, rather than just a signal extractor which is too “dumb” to participate in HDMI-CEC or modulate the volume. Here’s the most informative thread I’ve found on the subject: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ork-music-streamer-for-active-speakers.13918/
I’ve looked a bit, and there’s a few different options on the market that could serve you:

- You posted a .de link, maybe you can try the Canton Smart Connect? It does 5.1 pre-amp out and claims to have HDMI-CEC volume control. https://www.canton.de/en/products/smart/smart-connect-5.1

- Just get an AVR with the pre-amp outs that fit your use-case. Many AVRs have at least left and right, and the fancier ones have more channels. You’ll be able to take advantage of whatever EQ, etc, that the AVR has — but also it’s gonna be big and bulky, and you end up paying for a lot of amps you might not care about.

- There’s a class of streamer that bundle a digital streamer, pre-amp out, and a single HDMI ARC input, and sometimes a ~80w stereo amp. The Bluesound Node fits this profile. NAD has several options like the NAD M10 that include an amp.

- there are a couple of AVR “processors” that do have a bunch of channel outputs and no amps, like IOTAVX AVX17 https://www.iotaenterprises.co.uk/products/iotavx-avx17, but there are a few more cheaper options if you search around — I can’t find them in my notes.
@jitl Thanks for listing the options. HDMI ARC is preferable with HDMI-CEC. My family uses the HDMI-CEC to switch on and control Apple TV/ AVR volume.

I have another thread in ASR with this link listing my options and requesting for recommendations. I have two options 1. Canton smart connect 5.1 and saving money to later upgrade to all digital via a device like Vanity Pro. I have asked Genelec and after seeing my room in this link, they proposed me to go for a Processor with balanced output that can do atleast 5.2.4 Atmos and have asked me to consider installing Genelec 4 * 8320 for a 3D sound in my room. It seems all digital for 5.1 has lesser value than doing Atmos.
 

snickers

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I have a few questions about the Evolve II-4k. In my initial read over the unit, I dismissed it because it doesn't mention ARC (audio return channel) or CEC (volume control signals) other than CEC bypass. The thing that's most confusing about this space when evaluating a device is wondering, "will my TV remote volume commands change the volume of this dingus's output?". It's not always clear if it will work or not.

Can you tell me more about your experience with Evolve II-4k? I have a few different questions:
  • What does your wiring diagram look like?
  • Can you use your TV (or other HDMI device) remote control to change the volume of the Evolve's outputs?
  • What are the other HDMI finagler units that you tried, and what issues did they have?
I'm down a deep hole trying to find every non-AVR device with HDMI (e)ARC audio input and HDMI-CEC volume control, and I'd hate to go through the same steps as you buying and discarding stuff that works on paper but is full of annoying UX issues, clipping, etc.

Hey, my wiring is an AppleTV 4k 2021 going into the HDMI in, my Panasonic 4k TV on the HDMI out (HDR working without any issues) and 8 cinch cables running to the 8-ch analog input of my Harman 7550HD

I don't know about HDMI-ARC or CEC, as my Harman doesn't support it at all, so it's not an option for me.

I'm using this remote to control my ATV and switch on and off my TV and to control the volume on the TV:

Just btw before I bought the Essence I had contact with the seller and he was answering all of my questions, so I would contact him directly for any further questions.
 

EdTice

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Has anyone used an EU available HDMI extractor like this https://www.amazon.de/.../Con.../dp/B08KRHCPD1/ref=sr_1_5... to feed multichannel RCA signal to amplifiers or aktive speakers in surround set up? If yes, what is your experience and how is the sound quality? I have a Apple 4K TV as a source and can use the Apple 4K TV to control the volume as this extractor does not have volume control! Will I be missing the virtualiser capabilities of a AVR like Dolby surround instead of original striaght signal coming from the source via this extractor? How do they measure or how can I measure?
See this thread where I answered almost the exact same question.


The device you mentioned is not just an HDMI audio extractor. It can work as an extractor or as a preprocessor / DAC. Which mode are you planning to use?

The AppleTV will output your preference of 5.1 or stereo output which will help somewhat but I don't know that it will upmix 2ch content (if you care to do that)

You will be much happier with a proper AVR which will have better DACs and better channel mapping options. I have no idea about the DACs in the device you mentioned. Unless you want to either send one to Amir or measure yourself, I doubt we will ever know. Maye they are great.

With a proper AVR/AVP, you can buy knowing what you are getting. If budget is an issue (as it always should be since nobody likes overspending), the used market is flush with AVR/AVPs that support ARC, channel mapping, and have decent DAC implementations.

I was able to get a UMC-200 from a member here for $200 US. A bit of bargain hunting goes a long way. I've seen similar prices on Facebook marketplace.
 

coladict

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Apr 26, 2022
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Hey, so I bought that DAC from the original post, because it's impossible to find this answer, but I decided I can absorb the cost of throwing it away if it's bad. It's sold under a few brand labels, but it's the same device everywhere.
I can't review the audio quality of it, since I'm not someone who can tell much of a difference, but here's the important things to note:
  • It does NOT support HDMI ARC input. You have to use it as a passthrough for the video signal with up to 30Hz at 4K.
  • It defaults to 7.1 output mode. If your audio system is 5.1, you have to rely on the output settings of your device (presuming blu-ray player or gaming console) to change it to that.
  • My TV claims the passthrough input is 60Hz, but I don't trust it.
I've been using it with my PS5, and I haven't had any issues with it. The 5.1 optical audio decoder I used before that had an issue where it increased output lag noticeably in just a couple of hours. I've left this device on for days with no such problem. I haven't noticed any delay while playing games, either.
 

Blumlein 88

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Post in this other thread has some relevance if you need a multi-channel extractor.
 
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