HDMI and DACs not evolving

[Roland68]

External DAC can be connected to Line In (just for 2.0 though)? It has 0.1 preamp output. Yes, I would rip off power amps and change them with line outs (and change line outs to balanced XLR). Definitely an interesting product.

Unfortunately I have to disappoint you and everyone else. It is only a USB host connection for data storage, no DAC can be connected there.

 

[bungle]

Unfortunately I have to disappoint you and everyone else. It is only a USB host connection for data storage, no DAC can be connected there.

DAC converts digital to analog. And there is analog input. You probably want digital output to which connect a DAC.

 

[Roland68]

DAC converts digital to analog. And there is analog input. You probably want digital output to which connect a DAC.

I don't, I've been working with an HDMI Extractor board based on i2s for a long time.
But this thread is mostly about running HDMI with ARC/eARC with a (high quality) DAC, no AVR. Arylic has only achieved this with the B50 and it can also be used as a DAC via USB and Toslink. The stereo RCA and phono line inputs and Bluetooth actually make it a perfect little preamp.
But then they shot themselves in the foot. i2s or SPDIF output would have cost only a few cents more, as would the preamp output.
B50 digital out->DAC->B50 analog Line in->Pre Out or internal power amplifiers. You could connect a DAC, have the analog volume control with remote control from the B50 and decide for yourself whether to use the internal amplifier or connect external ones.
The perfect little control center with ARC, maybe next time.
But there will be plenty of buyers anyway.

 

[techsamurai]

Optical is dead. It was never updated to support anything past compressed 5.1, uncompressed max is stereo. Manufacturers consider it a legacy connector. I would not expect to see it at all for much longer except maybe on stereo DACs.

It's a real shame that optical or digital never progressed and couldn't handle the full audio and become a plausible option especially since TVs still offer Optical Out and so many audio electronics support digital connections (Toslink/optical and Digital) but not HDMI. It limits connectivity and upgrade options massively.

 

[Roland68]

It's a real shame that optical or digital never progressed and couldn't handle the full audio and become a plausible option especially since TVs still offer Optical Out and so many audio electronics support digital connections (Toslink/optical and Digital) but not HDMI. It limits connectivity and upgrade options massively.

What should be revised or further developed at the digital interfaces or connections? And why?
Optical has always been just a cheaper version of SPDIF, especially since cable was a lot cheaper. With SPDIF and AES you have data rates that leave nothing to be desired and USB 2.0 is also more than sufficient with a maximum of 1536KHz/32bit with PCM or DSD1024. There is also i2s (over LVDS), which transmits the data as the converter ICs need it, nothing more is possible.

If you play on HDMI, everything is perfect in terms of transmission.
For the rest, especially as far as the possibilities and limitations of HDMI are concerned, you have to thank the people who caused such great financial damage in the entertainment industry in the 70s to 90s that a large consortium decided to take the to prevent the processing of the data in the future if there is no license for this.
That was the birth of HDMI, including the copy protection concept (DRM) for audio and video.

It is absolutely forbidden to make the digital data accessible except in a limited way via optical or SPDIF.
If you are not part of this consortium, you will not get the necessary documentation or ICs to develop or produce a device with HDMI.

But since there are now many devices that can process HDMI, what exactly is still missing?

 

[techsamurai]

But since there are now many devices that can process HDMI, what exactly is still missing?

Not that many in the realm of 2 channel processing.

 

[Trell]

What should be revised or further developed at the digital interfaces or connections? And why?
Optical has always been just a cheaper version of SPDIF, especially since cable was a lot cheaper.

There is the old ADAT using TOSLINK that supports 8 channels at 48kHz/24 bit, and I would be happy with that for a surround system. Not that well be available in AVR or other consumer audio devices anytime soon.

 

[Roland68]

There is the old ADAT using TOSLINK that supports 8 channels at 48kHz/24 bit, and I would be happy with that for a surround system. Not that well be available in AVR or other consumer audio devices anytime soon.

As long as the HDMI consortium sees no need to remove copy protection and encryption, no digital multi-channel data will be output.

 

[Roland68]

As long as the HDMI consortium sees no need to remove copy protection and encryption, no digital multi-channel data will be output.

https://heco-audio.de/en/Heco-Aurora-200-P-Powerful-active-speaker-in-a-compact-design/D1348004P
HDMI ARC speaker with preamp function. Line in or phono in, optical in, bluetooth, sub out and remote control

 

[TonyJZX]

threads like this always intrigue me simply because its a slice of what a PARTICULAR consumer wants.

and the reality is what OP wants is really something that is quite niche

like you cannot expect someone like Toyota to make a twin turbo V8 manual mid engine sports car when that is not what the market generally wants... they want a camry or rav4

i cannot be really expecting the hdmi consortium to be bending to niche consumer tastes when their sole goal is to protect the interests of their benefactors

DAC makers are pretty much TI AKM ESS Crystal etc. - they're flat out doing what the enthusiasts wants so they're not going to deviate much from their known profit center.

 

[bungle]

For those that have deep pockets:

EVOLUTION PAS 5.3 · PAS 3.3 - AVM Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH

Analog Preamplifier with AVM X-STREAM Engine®: AirPlay, Spotify® Connect, Roon Ready, TIDAL Connect, QOBUZ, UPnP, Webradio · AVM RoomConneXion® Multiroom Mode · Double Quad DAC for max. 384/32 PCM · DSD256 · Phono input MM / MC · RC 3 Aluminium Remote Control

avm.audio

Quite elegant and nice feature set for 2.2. But expensive.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Am I the only person who quickly scrolls to find out which chipset they’re using, and then does a quick eye roll when they see that for your nearly $7,000 you’re not even getting an ESS9038 Pro, but the 9028 Pro, and with no assurance that it’s been implemented properly.

 

[dlaloum]

Am I the only person who quickly scrolls to find out which chipset they’re using, and then does a quick eye roll when they see that for your nearly $7,000 you’re not even getting an ESS9038 Pro, but the 9028 Pro, and with no assurance that it’s been implemented properly.

This has been the weakness of AVR's for 20+ years

Initially I used Lexicon DC1 and then MC1 prepro's - and they were excellent DAC's as well as doing surround.

Then I switched to AVR's around 2008 ... and from that time on, have been disappointed with what was available

 

[bungle]

miniDSP Flex HT is coming with eARC (PCM only, and looks like unbalanced only, but definitely a game changer):

miniDSP Flex HT

miniDSP Flex HT, 400MHz Sharc DSP audio processor, toolbox for subwoofer or multiway speaker tuning, USB/HDMI ARC/EARC, WISA, Optional Multichannel Dirac Live license for room correction,

www.minidsp.com

 

[MCH]

miniDSP Flex HT is coming with eARC (PCM only, and looks like unbalanced only, but definitely a game changer):

miniDSP Flex HT

miniDSP Flex HT, 400MHz Sharc DSP audio processor, toolbox for subwoofer or multiway speaker tuning, USB/HDMI ARC/EARC, WISA, Optional Multichannel Dirac Live license for room correction,

www.minidsp.com

Then, this + an apple tv for decoding and you get 8 channels with Dirac? Great!
Hope it will stay under 1.5k with Dirac, i won't bet on that though.
I think this deserves its own thread.

 

[Tom C]

Looks to me that neither Apple TV nor miniDSP HT will decode Atmos/DTS. To get Atmos out of Apple TV, you need an Atmos capable receiver.

 

[minus3dB]

Looks to me that neither Apple TV nor miniDSP HT will decode Atmos/DTS. To get Atmos out of Apple TV, you need an Atmos capable receiver.

The AppleTV I have (4K Gen3) does decode Atmos.

 

[bungle]

Dali Sound Hub:

''

The DALI SOUND HUB is the brains behind DALI EQUI, our exciting ecosystem of wireless active speakers and preamplifiers. Click to learn more.

www.dali-speakers.com

Can be extended with HDMI Module:

''

The HDMI module for the DALI SOUND HUB lets you enjoy up to 7.1 channels of high quality Dolby and DTS surround sound wirelessly. Click to learn more.

www.dali-speakers.com

From manual:

Incorporates Dolby Digital and DTS decoding to enable the SOUND HUB to broadcast to multi-channel speaker systems.

From web:

Linear PCM (up to 7.1ch/24 bit/192 kHz), Dolby TrueHD (up to 7.1ch), DTS HD Master Audio (up to 7.1ch), DTS HD High-resolution Audio (up to 7.1ch), Dolby Digital (up to 5.1ch), Dolby Digital Plus (up to 7.1ch), DTS LBR (up to 5.1ch), DTS ES/Extended Surround (up to 6.1ch)

And it looks like you can do 2.1 system with RCA-outs (more than that you may need Dali's wireless speakers).

 

[tom_tom]

Hi,

SMSL released new cheap DAC with HDMI

SMSL PS100 Multifunctional Audio Converter ES9023 DAC Audio Converter

SMSL PS100 Multifunctional Audio Converter ES9023 DAC Audio Converter

aoshida-audio.com

 

[lennyanders]

Woah, that is really cool. If it only had coaxial digital output, it could replace the BlueSound Node for me, which would be awesome for that price.

I guess analog output is good for the price too, so an easy to recommend product for connecting Amps or active speakers to a TV.