• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

HDMI 2.1 transition - AV receivers and owners facing challenges

Lutijen

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
37
Likes
24
Location
UK
Will all AVRs with HDMI 2.1 hardware and software challenges be finally fixed this year?

AVR - Copy.jpg


Why did marketing gamble with console gamers and PC owners go wrong for new line of AV receivers?

It was in June 2020 when Sound United, the company manufacturing Denon and Marantz AV receivers, attempted to widen the appeal of their AV products by stepping into waters of console gaming and PC world; new and potentially lucrative revenue market. A few months later, Yamaha jointed the enterprise with official marketing slogan "movies and games like never before". Both companies released a new generation of AV receivers promising bespoke audio-video entertainment, including gaming, courtesy of implementation of HDMI 2.1 feature package, such as 4K120Hz images, dynamic HDR, VRR, high bandwidth connection and more.

A few months later, in October, Nvidia 3000 series graphics cards and pre-release samples of Xbox series X became available as first sources for testing video pass-through capabilities of new receivers. As Yamaha’s receivers did not have HDMI 2.1 features turned on at that point of time (announced to be delivered via future firmware update), the only available testing products were Denon and Marantz AVRs. German tech magazine c’t exposed serious issues when testing output signals from Xbox series X and Nvidia 3080 GPU connected to Denon X2700H receiver (translation). Black screen on LG TV and “HDMI 2.1 bug” were widely reported around the world by many media outlets. It was concluded that Denon AVR could not pass 4K120Hz HDR signal through to TV due to incompatibility in fixed rate link (FRL) signalling, used in receiver’s HDMI 2.1 repeater chip and sourced by Panasonic Solutions. VRR feature did not work either. German tech magazine suggested that hardware change might be the only long-term solution. This was in line with generic text about FRL signalling, published by HDMI Org. It was the first disappointment for console and PC communities at the very beginning of HDMI 2.1 era and the AVR companies promised to address the problem by issuing a permanent solution in near, yet unspecified future.

Toward the end of 2020, HDMI 2.1 Ultra-high-speed certified cables, capable of 48 Gbps speed, became more widely available. Many users who bought Denon/Marantz receivers and Xbox series X console or graphics cards retested their devices, with no major success. It should be noted that Sound United provided two short video clips in December showing how to set-up Play Station 5 and PC with their receivers. Gaming on PS5 connected directly to receiver worked well. However, another demo with Nvidia’s 3000 series graphics card connected to AV receiver passed only a still image of PC desktop screen onto TV at 4K120Hz HDR (40 Gbps). Neither moving images from games or graphic simulations were demonstrated to work reliably, if at all, nor VRR pass-through was shown to be functional. This was the second disappointment for customers, as VRR is officially advertised feature.

Why did this problem with AV receivers occur in the first place?

The three problems - loose HDMI specification, lack of testing and poor product management

In essence, there are three reasons, linked to HDMI specification, engineering collaboration and product management coupled with business pressures. There is human responsibility, if not negligence, and lack of expertise behind each one of those three factors. Firstly, revised HDMI 2.1 specification was introduced with a package of advanced audio-video features, but without institutional executive powers to enforce its strict adoption in any standardised form. HDMI is not a standard like DisplayPort or IEEE's Ethernet and its 2.1 specification is sometimes vague enough to allow different interpretations of features by companies using HDMI chips and ports. For example, the speed of FRL audio-video signal on chips can be up to 48 Gbps. It is not mandated to be 48 Gbps, or less, need there be. Average consumers face difficulty in finding more details about port speeds in adverts, as optional speeds are often not published and no one really takes responsibility for educating the public about it. Companies, not only the ones manufacturing AVRs, are therefore free to support different port speeds and features in different devices. This can create consumer confusion, compatibility issues and bring about serious problems for the quality of image and refresh rates that are transmitted from one device to another, if two or more devices in HDMI chain happen to adopt different port speeds. Some HDMI ports may support 24 Gbps, some 32 Gbps (PS5), some 40 Gbps (XboxX, LG-X and LG-1 series, Denon/Marantz, AMD 6000 GPUs, future AVRs) or 48 Gbps (LG TV 9 series and Nvidia 3000 GPUs). It is completely arbitrary decision and we often learn about it only when products are purchased, connected and tested. For consumers, it is a world of ambiguity and uncertainty to navigate through, both in entertainment and business environments. In addition, AVR companies have been criticised for lack of sufficient testing of devices for interoperability and for prematurely pushing unready receivers into the market, when no source devices with HDMI 2.1 existed. Finally, another aspect of criticism was ineffective, if not incompetent, communication and collaboration between product managers and engineers during various stages of product design and sourcing of components.

What does current situation with AV receivers and AV processors look like and what do customers need to be aware of?


After several months of testing with two gaming consoles from Microsoft and Sony and new graphics cards from Nvidia and AMD, it is clear what works reliably with receivers and what does not work as intended, if at all. The only source device that has repeatedly been shown to work reliably through AV receivers at 4K120Hz HDR is PS5 console (32 Gbps signal). Similar image setting in Xbox series X, is met with black screen on TVs when connected through receivers. The console works fine when connected directly to TVs. Moving images from games and graphic simulations sent by PC graphics cards regularly encounter multiple problems: from image instability, stuttering, to colour shifting and lack of sync, when connected to TV or PC monitor through new AV receivers. Some of VRR problems can be attributed to some TV panels' gamma curve issue, however Denon receivers are yet to demonstrate this feature to be fully functional on supported devices. At best, compatibility landscape does not look promising. At worst, it is a failed attempt to enter console gaming and PC world markets, with loss of reputation for the brand and thousands of increasingly frustrated owners who had paid for expensive AVR products and have been waiting for a permanent solution from Sound United since October 2020.

Sound United
The promised solution was pending for months, according to this announcement. At the end of April 2021, Sound United released a proposed solution - another device called HDMI adapter box that can be used to connect XboxX console. It has one single input and one output HDMI port. Owners of AVRs will be able to order one for free. The company released a youtube video clip showing how to set up HDMI adapter box with the console and receiver. The adapter box is shipping to consumers as we speak and casual user reports suggest it works as intended. It seems that the adapter box solution can pass-through 40 Gbps signal from the console to AVR and onto a capable display. There might be another hardware option in a pipeline, "box 2.0", a multi-port HDMI adapter box, similar to switches. This was hinted By Roland Kruger in one of youtube presentations. Such solution would be a welcomed additon as it would allow users to connect multiple HDMI 2.1 sources to Denon/Marantz AVRs that originally host one single input 40 Gbps port. It remains to be seen whether potential users of such device would be attracted by its additional cost.

Yamaha
On the other hand, Yamaha enjoyed a benefit of a doubt, as they never promised 4K120Hz HDR features to work out-of-the-box until firmware updates were rolled out, as stated on their website. There is a firmware update schedule for this year under this link, so that Yamaha owners are aware of when to hope for fully functional receiver with HDMI 2.1 package of features. We expect to see testing results for 4K120Hz HDR moving images and other features at the end of Q3. However, in May, Yamaha annouced that all 2020 models of AVR would be eligible for free HDMI board replacement, to address the faulty chip from Panasonic Solutions installed inside of their AVRs. Owners are required to register their products on Yamaha's website and further annocuements would follow as to where to send AVRs for board exchange. This is a welcomed development from the company that will restore the reputation in the brand, as the move aims to bring reliable performance to affected AV receivers. The board replacement programe should last for two years. It is claimed that replacement boards will only be able to process 4K/120Hz signals with up to 24 Gbps of available bandwidth. This suggests that in uncompressed mode, 2020 models of receivers would be able to pass 4K/120Hz 10-bit 4-2-0 images. For any 4K/120Hz signal with higher colour settings, e.g. 4-2-2 or RGB, DSC protocol must be used. This could be a problem, as most of 4K TVs do not have DSC decoder to deal with such signals. Such inconsistent video pipeline in a chain of devices could lead to more black screen or fall back to 4K/120Hz 10-bit 4-2-0 if any device in the chain does not support DSC over HDMI 2.1.

Other brands
There is another line of 2021 AV receivers from Yamaha, Onkyo, Integra and Pioneer coming into the market later on this year. Those devices are said to host completely new HDMI 2.1 boards, with second generation of HDMI 2.1 chips, hoped to deliver more reliable perfomance in video and graphics department and in line with advertised features. Some models will host all ports with 40 Gbps speeds and some will host a mix of HDMI ports with 40 Gbps, 24 Gbps, as well as HDMI 2.0b ports with 18 Gbps. Please check relevant device specification for further details. In Yamaha's case, it is worth noting that new AV receivers will not have HDMI 2.1 features and port speeds working out-of-the-box. Owners will need to download and install firmware update to activate those features. Audio and video enthusiasts who have not yet purchased new receivers and need those features to work reliably are kindly advised to be cautious and seek independent reviews and testing results before committing significant amount of money to new products. In addition, board upgrades are planned for AV processors from Trinnov, Lyngdorf, Arcam and Anthem. Please visit manufacturers' website for more information about eligible models and board replacement schedules.

Companies are expected to continue with marketing efforts aimed at console gaming and PC user communities. It should be stressed out that computer users are large, a very diverse group and gamers are just a small part of it. Vast majority of PC users who enjoy audio-video entertainment are not gamers and often do not regard TV sets as a dominant display component in their home entertainment set-up. However, many of them still wish their AVRs to be a well-integrated media hub device. New receivers are thought to be both manufactured and validated, with new and improved second generation of HDMI 2.1 chipsets. In an interview by Audioholics with Jon Herron, Trinnov's international sales manager for the Americas, Mr Herron answered a question about HDMI 2.1 chips at the end of the interview. He was cautious about the chips offered to Trinnov for testing. AV processors and receivers’ boards with new chips are hoped to be more functional than original Panasonic Solutions offering from last year. Mr Herron stopped short of giving any explicit promises or timeline for HDMI 2.1 implementation in Trinnov's products. It is not yet clear if any of ‘deal-breaking’ features would prove to be fully functional. His cautiousness is indicative of continued challenges with HDMI 2.1 chips in AV processors and receivers. As Trinnov has a well-established reputation for manufacturing high end AV products, they would not implement boards with new chips if they had any doubt about their reliability and performance. Finally, it is currently the only company that publicly mentioned the intention to integrate full speed ports of 48 Gbps in their boards. This is exactly how full HDMI 2.1 implementation should look like in AV devices that are meant to be in the heart of home entertainment set-up for minimum 5-8 years. Offering one fast HDMI port only, as Sound United attempted, was a regressive move, short-sighted development and marketing stunt that backfired last year. Devices that are meant to be future-proof are in need of hosting multiple fast ports for users to connect growing number of sources with HDMI 2.1 features.

What needs to be done with future AV devices to be well-integrated with PC world?

AV pass-through devices have a challenging role to play as a home media hub/switch in rapidly evolving entertainment environment of digital devices, interfaces and audio and video standards. This means that successful integration with PC-based entertainment, alongside TV-based entertainment reliant solely on HDMI interface, is incumbent upon interface innovation, creative thinking and bespoke support for computer graphics pass-through. There are a few pioneering steps in this direction from Trinnov and MadVR Envy, however those devices are prohibitively costly solutions for the mainstream market at the moment and are intended for AV enthusiast and pro markets. In order to become more successful in PC-based entertainment market, mainstream AV processors and receivers would need to evolve boards, install faster processors and comply with diverse computer graphics features, rather than being merely compatible with some. Compliance is more obligatory, standardised and transparent, whereas compatibility is more optional. PC monitor sales has globally increased to ~140 million units in 2020, whereas for TVs it was ~200 million for a few years now. More than 300 million desktop and laptop PCs were sold last year too. It's significant and potentially lucrative new market for AV solutions. Numbers alone speak miles about the home entertainment platform shifting between TV and PC based solutions, especially in the age of digital content streaming, where any capable displays, TV, monitor or laptop, are equally used for content consumption.

If AVR companies do not start supporting new features that matter to audio-video entertainment in PC-centric world, such as Gsync (Ultimate) and Freesync Premium (Pro) with official stickers on future receivers, those devices will not be as appealing as a ‘middle man’ between computers and displays. Alongside this, other improvements are needed, such as support for more diverse resolutions and refresh rates in EDID, as well as long overdue introduction of another interface to diversify connectivity, for example DisplayPort 2.0 or USB4 type C port with DisplayPort tunnelling. Without innovation and better connectivity choices, few computer users will entertain connecting cables directly to AVR for graphics pass-through. Manufacturers of AV receivers are welcomed to think creatively before enticing computer world outside of gaming segment. It is already an organised ecosystem, mostly based on DisplayPort standard for video connectivity, but also increasingly welcoming to HDMI 2.1 features. It may take time, effort and serious R&D for this alignment to emerge, but only then will we be able to say "movies and games like never before", with AV processor/receiver in the heart of home entertainment, a place where it should be. At the moment, this marketing slogan is yet to realise its full potential.

Contrubutions and discussions from members are warmly welcomed. Thank you.
 

Attachments

  • AVR - Copy.jpg
    AVR - Copy.jpg
    99.8 KB · Views: 54
Last edited:

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
5,593
Likes
9,908
Location
Monument, CO
The HDMI spec has been a mess for years and they never seem to learn better. This was supposed to be "transparent" and yet...
 

Aerith Gainsborough

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
518
Likes
768
If AVR companies do not start supporting new features that matter in audio-video entertainment in PC world, such as Gsync (Ultimate) and Freesync Premium (Pro) with official stickers on future receivers, those devices will not be appealing as a ‘middle man’ between PC and monitor/TV.
I've never understood why I should pipe all my video data through my AVR. It does not make sense to me. Even my 4K UHD player has 2 HDMI outs: One for audio, one for video, if the user so chooses. Which I do, because my AVR is too old for HDMI 2.0.

I use two connections, one to my TV (that serves as monitor) and one to my AVR for multichannel audio. Only issue can be latency but with ASIO buffer sizes of ~ 128 samples, that's a non issue.
 
OP
Lutijen

Lutijen

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
37
Likes
24
Location
UK
I've never understood why I should pipe all my video data through my AVR. It does not make sense to me. Even my 4K UHD player has 2 HDMI outs (which I use because my AVR is too old for HDMI 2.0).

It's an interesitng thought to consider. No one is saying all users should pipe all their video through AVR. That will depend on individual configurations. Choice is the key word. In 2021 we should be given more diverse interface choices on those HDMI-only boards, should we wish to use it with specific home gear. Modernisation of boards is needed, as home devices have become more diverse.

In PC environment, video interfaces are more diverse and this offers users more configuration options, with DP, HDMI, Thunderbolt/USB-C, etc. I mentioned in the main text that AVR companies flirted with PC users with new line of AVRs, but this flirt needs to develop into well-integrated solutions with better connectivity. It's not enough to offer ultra-high-speed HDMI and hope that people will buy that.

Would you not support an idea of more connectivity choice for everyone, even if you personally would not use it? At the end of the day, almost no one uses all those HDMI ports. Average use is 4-5 ports, others are often wasted. So, why not give more port choice and increase their usage? PC motherboard and GPU often give you DP and HDMI to choose from, whatever fits best with your devices. I think that's the only way for new AVRs to be better integrated with PC world.

I use two connections, one to my TV (that serves as monitor) and one to my AVR for multichannel audio. Only issue can be latency but with ASIO buffer sizes of ~ 128 samples, that's a non issue.

Is this config with your PC? I have the same set-up with my PC. The issue here is clone/ghost screen that appears as additional monitor. I wrote emails to motherboard companies, asking them to enable in BIOS separate AV toggles for HDMI port; toggles that would turn on/off audio and video separately, so that HDMI mux chip does not send clone screen through HDMI port to AVR. It's clumsy and annoying even when we use HDMI port on PC to connect audio only to AVR, while avoiding AVR for monitors. Silly from the point of view of integration and simplicity of use. That's also another reason to have more port options on AVR.

One or two in/out DisplayPorts on AVR would be perfect to simplify cabling and routing. For that to happen, R&D is needed. Another option could be to enhance HDMI's EDID and add more resolutions, refresh rates and sync information. This would support more monitors, as those are more diverse than standard TVs. This is what AVR companies currently do not do and therefore PC users avoid AVR for video connections, as HDMI options are suboptimal.
 
Last edited:
OP
Lutijen

Lutijen

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
37
Likes
24
Location
UK
The HDMI spec has been a mess for years and they never seem to learn better. This was supposed to be "transparent" and yet...

Yes, there is a bit of that, but also, it's up to us consumers to press companies with feedback about changes that are needed, what does not work well with new HDMI and what needs to be redeveloped. They are more likely to listen if there is a critical mass of users telling them about specific solutions.
 
Last edited:

Aerith Gainsborough

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
518
Likes
768
Would you not support an idea of more connectivity choice for everyone, even if you personally would not use it?

Is this config with your PC? I have the same set-up with my PC. The issue here is clone/ghost screen that appears as additional monitor.
Sure I'd love to see displayport on TVs and in AVRs but AFAIK, it's a business decision (market segmentation), not to offer these, not a technical one. Just look at the price of a 4K HDR capable monitor and compare it to a 4K HDR capable TV...

Eeh, you are aware that any HDMI device actually needs a video stream in order to embed the audio data? HDMI cannot transmit audio only like SPDIF or USB. I only noticed the "ghost screen" in Windows display properties, now that you mentioned it, I never had any adverse effects, so why do you care so much about it? OCD?

I agree that the buggy chip is lame and that the HDMI 2.1 implementation has been rushed and half assed. Absolutely a no-go.
That being said: it is not uncommon for new standards to have teething problems, typically it is wise to wait a generation or two until you adopt it or live with the fact that you will be playing beta tester.
 
OP
Lutijen

Lutijen

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
37
Likes
24
Location
UK
Sure I'd love to see displayport on TVs and in AVRs but AFAIK, it's a business decision (market segmentation), not to offer these, not a technical one. Just look at the price of a 4K HDR capable monitor and compare it to a 4K HDR capable TV...

I wonder what is in minds of those who decide how market is segmented. Is there a magical border between HDMI and DP segment? Kind of silly. If you start flirting with PC world, it's wise to think about DisplayPort pass-through, no?

It's true that advanced monitors are delayed and expensive (e.g. Asus ProArt). Guess we just need to be patient. A dozen or so with dynamic HDR are being tested now with DisplayPort 40 Gbps and those should arrive by Xmas. It will be more affordable and exciting after initial market wave, as monitor companies have also realised that many PC users simply switched to TV to compensate for high prices and lack of progress.

Eeh, you are aware that any HDMI device actually needs a video stream in order to embed the audio data? HDMI cannot transmit audio only like SPDIF or USB. I only noticed the "ghost screen" in Windows display properties, now that you mentioned it, I never had any adverse effects, so why do you care so much about it? OCD?

I was not aware of that. Damn it. Always good to learn. I have no technical background. Thought audio could be separated into aux channel, but it can't. Clone screen does not bother me, until I lose my mouse ;-)

I agree that the buggy chip is lame and that the HDMI 2.1 implementation has been rushed and half assed. Absolutely a no-go.
That being said: it is not uncommon for new standards to have teething problems, typically it is wise to wait a generation or two until you adopt it or live with the fact that you will be playing beta tester.

Teething problems are fine. Everyone can understand that and be patient enough to wait for update. Black screens into user's face and lack of transparent communication with owners are not.
 

Aerith Gainsborough

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
518
Likes
768
monitor companies have also realised that many PC users simply switched to TV to compensate for high prices and lack of progress.

Clone screen does not bother me, until I lose my mouse ;-)
Yup that's what I did. Got a 55" Sony TV (XF90) and haven't looked back. It's awesome. It sit close enough to touch it.
Only wish I had a wee more GPU grunt for 4K. Oh well, maybe in 2025 prices and supply will normalize.

I'm used to losing my mouse on busy screens but I know what you mean. :D
 
OP
Lutijen

Lutijen

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
37
Likes
24
Location
UK
Only wish I had a wee more GPU grunt for 4K
I managed to chase Sapphire 6800XT in January. It took me 3 weeks of daily monitoring. A few cards appear every now and then in several shops and go quickly. There were moments those were available for a few days. It is possible to buy one if you have time to chase. But now, with that Taiwanese ship stuck in the Suez Canal, full of GPUs, CPUs and other goods, it's going to more waiting.
 
OP
Lutijen

Lutijen

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
37
Likes
24
Location
UK
I was wondering what kind of developments could bring more people onboard with modernised AVRs by 2025? Trinnov and MadVR Envy have been pioneering several solutions on their processors that could trickle into the mainstream AVR market. Here are the proposals:
  • make big heavy boxes more modular so that individual consumer could change and upgrade some parts as necessary, like in PCs
  • introduce mini-ITX motherboards in some AVRs in a line up; this would allow for faster CPUs and greater onboard connectivity
  • such motherboard could unlock internal storage on SSD drives - modern consumers enjoy moving files around and having storage options everywhere. This would also allow Plex server inside of AVR.
  • software needs significant upgrade to OS status; this unlocks so many things - Linux light for everyone?
  • introduce USB4 with video tunneling, in and out - this will bring DisplayPort and data transfer
  • if they do decide to put HDMI port at the front, please, please, make it functional for modern 4K cameras and speedy laptops. Current 9 Gbps front ports... absurd; waste of time, energy and money. Lack of imagination, lack of reality check, lack of research into already available and incoming devices that would connect to it
  • install faster LAN ports and WiFi 6 for speedy transfers and streaming on home network, so that consumers have freedom to move files around and play it from whereever they want to. Current 100 Mbps Ethernet ports on most models are so 1990s.
  • put speedy USB4 C type port to the front, so that anyone could easily connect ad hoc peripherals, such as laptops, media storage, hub
  • ah, and that dinosaur HDMI-only board - modernise AV connectivity and diversify ports. It's not nice to have one type of port when monitors and laptops have HDMI, DP, UCB-C and Thunderbolt ports, to allow consumers various options to connect sources with movies, graphics and whatever they want.
If anyone knows AVR engineers and specialists working for mainstream companies, please forward these ideas to them. We need change.
 

Tks

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
2,866
Likes
4,518
Yes, there is a bit of that, but also, it's up to us consumers to press companies with feedback about changes that are needed, what does not work well with new HDMI and what needs to be redeveloped. They are more likely to listen is there is a critical mass of users telling them about specific solutions.

Disagree here, unless engineers are complete morons, and tone-deaf to what a consumer would want when they walk into a place expecting an HDMI 2.1 device - these companies already know what they need to do. Let purchasing power honestly tell them what they should already be doing. I refuse to believe people running massive electronics corporations are this oblivious to the sort of hype their marketing teams are creating when they flaunt new specifications for their devices like connectivity support entailed by something as monumental as HDMI 2.1. How could they know what to hype up, yet be riddled with idiots in management + engineering to not know what is required to deliver on it?

Just makes no sense to me tbh.
 
OP
Lutijen

Lutijen

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
37
Likes
24
Location
UK
I refuse to believe people running massive electronics corporations are this oblivious to the sort of hype their marketing teams are creating when they flaunt new specifications for their devices like connectivity support entailed by something as monumental as HDMI 2.1. How could they know what to hype up, yet be riddled with idiots in management + engineering to not know what is required to deliver on it?

As I mentioned in the opening text of the thread, one aspect of criticism was ineffective, if not incompetent, communication and collaboration between marketing team, product managers and engineers during various stages of product design and sourcing of components. This was nicely explained by FOMO in one of his youtube videos. Also, new AVRs on the market were not certified for new tech upon release. It was a rushed, beta-release.

What exactly happened, we may never find out, unless someone releases memoirs or leaked insights. The outcome is clear to everyone - a fiasco roll-out of the first gen of HDMI 2.1 AVRs with buggy chips, precipitated by aggressive marketing and insufficient in-house testing for interoperability.

Now that the second gen of HDMI 2.1 chips are being tested in Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer and Trinnov devices, we shall see what comes out of this endeavour. They have 5 HDMI 2.1 sources to test new AVRs with - AMD and Nvidia graphics cards in PCs, two consoles and new laptops with HDMI 2.1 ports. In next couple of months there will be NUCs and PC motherboards with new HDMI ports too. Also, there will be more sink devices this year, both HDMI 2.1 TVs and monitors to test images. So, there is plenty of opportunities to get features right this time around. There will be no excuse for black screens or VRR not working properly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tks

truwarrior22

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2020
Messages
19
Likes
6
So after my VRR and ALLM rant at AVSForum and talking to support, it appears Denon and Marantz is considering a fix box with more than one input, so I would suggest all to report one input is not enough before it's too late! Remember it's not just 120hz and 8K that's broken, it appears to be most of these additional HDMI features as well which impacts ALL inputs. They are probably testing the waters to see what the response is with a one input box fix before making it official!
Marantz support: (800) 654-6633
Denon support: (800) 497-8921
 
OP
Lutijen

Lutijen

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
37
Likes
24
Location
UK
Full update is below

2020 - FIRST GEN OF HDMI 2.1 CHIPS - Panasonic Solutions offered two versions (~14 min)
1. Denon/Marantz - one in/two out 40 Gbps ports





2. Yamaha lower tier models - multi HDMI 2.1 ports; alleged speed 24 Gbps (8K60 B - DSC)
2021 - SECOND GEN OF CHIPS - 24 and 40 Gbps - Analog Devices 7672 (ex-Invecas) and others
1. Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra - multiple 40 Gbps and 24 Gbps ports - shipping Q3-Q4 2021
2. Steinway Lyngdorf - 5 in/2 out, all 40 Gbps ports P300 2.1
3. Trinnov and StormAudio AV- testing 40 Gbps chips; if happy, release in Q4 2021?
4. Arcam/JBL/Anthem - all ports with 40 Gbps; release in Q4 2021 or Q1 2022
5. Yamaha higher tier models A4A, A6A and A8A are scheduled for Q3 2021
6. Sound United - HDMI board upgrade for Denon AVR-X8500H and Marantz AV8805
2022-2023 - THIRD GEN OF CHIPS- 48 Gbps?

Chips: In design, by who? unclear: are those chips ready for testing?
1. Trinnov hopes to implement the 48 Gbps chip, if 2nd gen chips are not reliable for prime time
2. others?

Current HDMI 2.1 sources
1. GPU - Nvidia 3000 series - 48 Gbps
- HDR10, 12-bit, HDMI VRR driver for 4K120
2. GPU - AMD 6000 series - 40 Gbps
- HDR10, 12-bit, no HDMI VRR driver for 4K120
3. Console XboxX - 40 Gbps
- HDR10, 10-bit, HDMI VRR 4K40-120, DV 4K120
4. Console PS5 - 32 Gbps
- HDR10, no VRR?1. Gigabyte Aero laptops - speed?

AVR and AV processor trends in 2021:
  • companies working hard to release AV units with 40 Gbps or combo 24/40 Gbps by Q3-Q4 2021
  • free hardware for faulty chips in 2020 models: Sound United (adapter box), Yamaha (board)
  • no one mentions 48 Gbps speed, as the full speed chips are not ready (late 2022?)
  • gaming feature ALLM seems to be working well across the board; almost no compaints
  • gaming feature VRR has received a lot of complaints for patchiness and unreliable support
  • quality features QMS and QFT have not been demonstrated to work; further testing needed
  • still unclear how reliably key features work together - 4K+120Hz+10-bit+HDR+RGB+VRR
  • Dolby Vision 4K 120Hz pass-through is not available at the moment (XboxX and LG 1 series TVs are ready for the mode)
 
Last edited:

truwarrior22

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2020
Messages
19
Likes
6
So here’s the adapter box from SU, looks like a half baked HDMI switch box. I guess enough people didn’t voice their displeasure with a one input external “fix” box. Perhaps it’s easiest for most folks, but I’ll likely have to pay for a HDMI switch with more than one input when they could have just sent a completed unit. I’m guessing third party switch might not work due to the chipset issues?
526FE095-6800-4418-AE33-32E075EF4094.jpeg
 
Top Bottom