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HD800 owners thread

Jimbob54

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The "S" owners have a review thread to chirp away in but anything OG HD800 related can go here without disrupting things elsewhere.

I know @Robbo99999 has a pair and is struggling to find an EQ that is just right, largely for the bass.

To my mind these are not the 'phones to go for for tight, deep, punchy bass (hope all will get what I mean with that Headfi-esque description) and adding too much bass makes it lose definition so these are never going to be bass cannons.

With that in mind- my EQ- apologies it is on the RME so exporting isnt easy. Salient points being a 25hz Q0.5 peak of 2db to add a bit of texture, 220hz Q0.5 dip of a couple of db to de-muddify (to me makes the lower bass stand out more too) then a Low shelf at 105db Q0.7 to taste- if I bump this past about 2 db things just get wooly.

PXL_20240607_100137836.jpg
 
Hi Jimbob, good idea to set up a thread. I've got an HD800 recently (a number of months ago), but it's not a pure stock HD800, because it has HD800s pads on it. The original HD800 pads aren't purchasable anymore. It was actually solderdude that sourced this HD800 for me, and he refurbed it super great with replacing the headband padding as well as the pads, and also repainting it as the old paint was bubbling up in places. Let me see if I've got some pics of it, very good refurb!

Following is how it looked prior to refurb:
HD800 Before Refurb.JPG

HD800 Before Refurb2.JPG


And then after refurb:
HD800 after refurb.JPG


Yes, so I'm struggling to find a perfect EQ for it, or better phrased I've managed to find what I find a balanced tonality EQ for it, but it feels slightly out of focus vs my favourite EQ for my K702 for instance, and also the bass is quite soft too which I'm not sure is changeable within the HD800, but following is my current best EQ for the HD800, and bare in mind this is with HD800s pads fitted, and also note the graph looks weird because it's a miniDSP EARS measurement, but the EQ filters are still listed for people to see & try if they like (& also note I'm also using 1 ply of toilet paper in the headphone cups which reduces treble peaks more than the surrounding treble which is an advantage) (the faint red line in the background is the frequency response before EQ, and the highlighted thicker red line is after EQ):
HD800 Toilet Paper to K702 Unit 3 Black Pads Harman.jpg


My next plan to try to get this EQ right is to customise this EQ subjectively by listening & using Oratory style customisation filters, for instance the ones I've circled in red below, albeit the following pic is an example from Oratory's HD560s EQ, but the user customisation filters can still be used if you start off with them at 0dB and tweak them just plus or minus to taste when listening, I think I'll also use the 7000Hz filter that's in following pic as a customisation filter too:
customisation filters (HD560s).jpg

So that's my plan going forwards, so next time I try to get the most of HD800 that will be my approach.


EDIT: and following is the effect of HD800s pad vs original HD800 pad, to give people an idea of how my headphone measures vs a stock HD800 (this was a measurement from solderdude):
green new HD800S pad, brown original pad.png
 
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@Robbo99999 interesting- Mine was a second hand pair too of course. I did get new Senn pads to replace the old dirty stock ones they came with but wasnt aware there was a difference between OG and S pads (or do Senn now only supply the "new"/S variant for both? ) Either way I guess mine are the S pads too now but had a couple of years on them.

Might try the toilet paper too- do you put between driver and the pad mesh or over the pad mesh? EDIT- pretty sure I can see it under the mesh in your pics.
 
@Robbo99999 interesting- Mine was a second hand pair too of course. I did get new Senn pads to replace the old dirty stock ones they came with but wasnt aware there was a difference between OG and S pads (or do Senn now only supply the "new"/S variant for both? ) Either way I guess mine are the S pads too now but had a couple of years on them.

Might try the toilet paper too- do you put between driver and the pad mesh or over the pad mesh? EDIT- pretty sure I can see it under the mesh in your pics.
I guess you can tell if you've got the S-pads because it's a different type of material, have a look at the before & after refurb pics in my prior post. The S-pads have a kind of homogenous surface texture where it's all the same, yet the old original pads look kind of "woven" inasmuch as there's lined texture to them. I'm only judging from the pics solderdude sent me because I've never seen the original pads in person, just in his pics. If I remember rightly Solderdude said that they're now being advertised as the same pad between HD800 & HD800s, which goes together with the following webpage where Sennheiser say that this is the pad for both HD800 & HD800s (and you can see in the pic at following link that they too are the ones that have that homogenous surface texture I mentioned):

Do your pads look like the HD800s ones in my "after refurb pic" as well as the ones at the above link? If so then you've got the HD800s pads. If they look like my "before refurb pic" then you've got the original ones.

Yep, you put the 1 ply of toilet paper behind (under) the pad mesh, which is what holds it in place. When I say 1 ply I don't mean one whole sheet of toilet paper, instead you seperate out the toilet paper into it's constituent parts (because it's made up of a few layers, and you just use one very thin layer). It seems kinda silly when you say it re using toilet paper, lol, but I measured before & after toilet paper and it takes down the peaks in the treble more than the other surrounding areas in the treble, so by the measurements at least it's a good way of softening the peaks considerably whilst not lowering the general treble too much - basically it changes the shape of the treble to make it smoother. When you put the paper in then make sure it doesn't become folded or creased - solderdude had cut them out in the shape of circles covering a significant amount of that area, so they weren't small circles.

EDIT: and yes indeed, you mentioned you could see the outline of the toilet paper discs under the mesh - and yes you can see them in the pic, so that will show you roughly how big to cut the discs.
 
Re the different earpads that have been talked about for the HD800, I've been asking Oratory about this over on his reddit, ultimately to see if he's measured units with both pads and also how many units he's measured for his published HD800 EQ, and also perhaps what was the breakdown of the number of units with the new style pad vs old style pad (my terminology):

So far he's said that the different pads haven't had a significant effect, but I've asked him a couple more questions. You know, I'm not sure if I've ever actually tried Oratory's HD800 EQ because I had assumed it was all based on the old original pad, rather than the newer HD800s pad, but turns out he's measured both & all that information is part of his HD800 EQ. That means I really should try his HD800 EQ rather than doing various "HD800s Conversions" or "other conversions" I've been doing that are a bit too long winded to discuss right now in a short post. I should try his HD800 EQ, but I'll need to keep in mind I've got the toilet paper discs in there, so I can subtract the effect of the toilet paper from his EQ (as I've already measured the difference between toilet paper vs no toilet paper on my miniDSP EARS). Ok, so this is gonna be the next thing I'll try with the HD800, not what I mentioned in my previous post - so I've changed what my next approach is gonna be. I'm still gonna wait to hear from more info from Oratory though, as I've asked him more questions over on his reddit, that you can see at the link above. (Toilet Paper sounds so goddamn silly, I can't get over it! But it really does smooth out the treble rather than just lowering it, proven by the measurements, so I'll keep it for now.)
 
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Oratory released a somewhat updated HD800 EQ yesterday! Here's the link to it:
And a screenshot of the bottom half of the EQ:
Oratory HD800 EQ 10.06.24.jpg


I went ahead & tried that EQ, I think it's really quite good, maybe excellent, but was just a casual listening session today, not particularly controlled.
I did modify his EQ to compensate for the fact I've got those 1ply of toilet paper discs in these earcups, following is a pic showing the effect of 1ply of toilet paper that I measured on my miniDSP EARS:
HD800 Toilet Paper is 8000Hz High Shelf Q0.707 -2.6dB.jpg

The paper makes a similar aggregate effect as High Shelf 8000Hz, -2.6dB, Q0.71, but in addition the paper smooths out the peaks. Toilet paper is blue line in the graph above. So to compensate for fact that I'm using toilet paper disc & Oratory's EQ is based on a measurement without toilet paper disc then I added the inverse effect of the toilet paper disc to the Oratory EQ, so I added High Shelf 8000Hz, +2.6dB, Q0.71. The toilet paper is still smoothing out the treble peaks, so it's still having that effect - I mean you can see the blue line is less peaky above 8kHz, so it still has it's value. I also removed his 11000Hz Peak Filter, because the toilet paper is already smoothing out that peak as you can see in the measurement above. And one last change, I added a 12Hz High Pass Filter (Q0.75) to his EQ, just to start removing bass boost below 20Hz - it's just a subjective thing I've done in that past with a variety of headphone EQ's - in the past when I tested it I felt like it cleaned up the whole headphone a little, praps reducing strain on the driver, maybe lowering IMD (perhaps).

So to conclude this is what I'm currently using re HD800:
  • HD800 headphone, refurbished with genuine Sennheiser HD800/HD800s pads - so the new style pads (not the fabric type pads).
  • 1ply toilet paper disc in each ear cup to reduce treble peaks above 8kHz.
  • Oratory's latest HD800 EQ that he released yesterday compensated for the fact I'm using the toilet paper discs, so his EQ amended as follows:
    • added additional High Shelf 8000Hz, +2.6dB, Q0.71 (feel I may need to decrease this in the future)
    • removed his 11000Hz Peak Filter
    • added 12Hz High Pass Filter, Q0.75 (this one not related to the toilet paper disc)
I think really impressed so far, but might be honeymoon period & been quite a casual uncontrolled listening session, but so far so good....I'll update in coming days/weeks, etc after I've done a more controlled listening comparison. One things for sure this setup doesn't lack clarity, which was a bit of a danger with prior EQ's I've used on HD800.

EDIT: got a reply from Oratory over on his reddit that I linked earlier - basically for HD800 Oratory has measured 4 units, and if his memory serves him correct at least 2 of those were the old fabric style pad, but he said the measurements were still closely grouped between all of them. So he may have done 2 units with old style fabric pads & 2 units with new style pad or maybe 3 units old style fabric pad & 1 unit new style pad (something like that).
 
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The 800 takes a bass boost better than the 600 but I still think both of them suffer once you boost more than 3 or 4 dB.
 
The 800 takes a bass boost better than the 600 but I still think both of them suffer once you boost more than 3 or 4 dB.
I don't know if you've tried his latest EQ he's released? Which was yesterday that he released it of course. I know you're not a Harman fan, but unit to unit variation & the EQ involved can make a difference, and given HD800 is reportedly very low in unit variation might be worth giving this latest one a try. Actually, comparing the Total EQ Curves between his previous EQ and this latest one - the latest one has slightly less bass boost & more energy over 3kHz as a broad takeaway in differences, so it will sound different to his previous EQ. I never tried his previous EQ because I was always under the impression that the new style pads on my HD800 made it invalid but turns out Oratory has measured anywhere from 25-50% of his HD800 units with the new style pad and said the measurements were still grouped closely amoungst all of them.

With Oratory's updated EQ which was released yesterday, I do find the bass to be quite good in the HD800 now (not woolly). Also note I put in that 12Hz High Pass (Q0.75) which rolls off the bass boost below 20Hz, so maybe that helps a bit too. If you've done the toilet paper mod (lol) then you'd probably want to run the other extra filters I list in my previous post that compensate for that. (& note it's just 1 ply of toilet paper - if you take a sheet of toilet paper and then rip it apart into all it's thinnest layers, then it's just one of the very thinnest layers - saying this for other people, not necessarily yourself).

Early days for me with this EQ, but positive so far.

EDIT 13/6/2024: probably shouldn't have done a little listening session on this today as was not really in the mood, but the honeymoon could be over with this EQ - it might be too forward and not enough bass. It's just amazing how quickly perceptions can change and how flexible our minds can be to think it was the bees knees one day & then another you find a different perception. Did do some casual quick switching to EQ'd K702 & EQ'd HD560s and noticed some clear differences. Shouldn't have really done a listening session today as wasn't in the mood, but honeymoon might be over. It's crazy how flexible our minds can be when it comes to headphones and assessing them. I should probably level match the HD800 EQ to my comparing headphones, which is something I've done in the past recently, I should do that again for this HD800 EQ for my next time I assess them. Honeymoon could be over, we'll see. I mean I can tweak the EQ for the HD800 subjectively to move it more to my preference, but at this point I'm just wanting to compare this HD800 EQ vs my previous best EQ's for K702 & HD560s, especially as I thought the HD800 EQ was really good when I listened to it first time a couple of days ago.

EDIT 14/6/2024: haven't done anything on this since yesterday, but think I should also try the old version Oratory HD800 EQ as he updated it fairly significantly on 10/6/2024. The 10/6/2024 version would sound brighter with less bass. I should try the old version when I get round to it.
 
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New post for a new EQ on the HD800, since I last edited by previous post on the 14th June. My last note I'd said I'd try the previous version of Oratory's EQ, the one that he did in 2020, whereas previously I'd been trying his latest release that was 10th June 2024 (there are some significant differences between the two). So find attached his previous EQ from 2020, find the attached pdf. I've fine tuned that EQ for myself and I'm using an extra +1dB on the 100Hz Low Shelf, an additional +1dB on the 9000Hz High Shelf, and I omitted(not using) the 7900Hz Peak Filter. In addition I'm using that 1ply of toilet paper in there, but given I know the measured effect of that, what I've told you in my previous sentence is effectively what I'm experiencing right now (if you wanted to try what I'm experiencing without toilet paper) but with the added bonus of the paper smoothing out the peaks above 8000Hz. (If you've already got 1 ply toilet paper in your HD800 and you want to try what I'm experiencing at the moment then let me know & I'll give you one more filter you need to add to compensate for the paper).

Some short notes on the volume I'm listening at, average 78dB A-weighted. I volume matched Oratory's 2024 EQ with his 2020 EQ by measuring a very busy track on my miniDSP EARS and then making sure the average accumulated volume at the end of the track was the same (78dB). I also did the same process with my favourite K702 EQ, I volume matched that one. This way in this listening session I compared HD800 Oratory 2024 EQ with HD800 Oratory 2020 EQ and also against my favourite K702 EQ which is based on Oratory's actual measurement of my K702 unit that I sent him. Following pics of the volume matching process for the 2 headphones & 3 EQ's, you can see they're all volume matched at 78dB A-weighted:
K702 Unit 3 supermassive Black Hole EQ.jpg HD800 supermassive Black Hole HD800 Oratory EQ 2020.jpg HD800 supermassive Black Hole HD800 Oratory EQ 2024.jpg

So yeah, I think I'm liking this latest HD800 EQ, I think it's better than the Oratory 2024 EQ, and I think it's better than my best EQ'd K702. Let's see if this experience remains stable as it can change over time, but a good listening session today. So just to reiterate, I'm using the old Oratory HD800 EQ from 2020 (which I've attached in pdf form) (and I'll also do a screenshot of the filters following), with the exception that I'm adding +1dB to the 100Hz Low Shelf, +1dB to the 9000Hz High Shelf, and I omitted the 7900Hz Peak Filter. (I am also using that 1ply toilet paper I mentioned, but I accounted for that in the filters I've just mentioned to you - as in if you don't have toilet paper in your HD800 and you want to try what I'm experiencing then you'd just use Oratory's following EQ along with the amended filters I just mentioned in the previous sentence. Sorry, it can be quite hard to explain without ambiguity.)
HD800 Filters Oratory 29.11.20.jpg


EDIT: oh yeah, and I'm also using one extra filter, High Pass at 12Hz, Q0.75, which is just to start removing the added bass boost below 20Hz - in the past I've added it to a lot of my headphone EQ's as subjectively I found it just cleaned up the whole headphone, maybe IMD related (maybe), quite subjective and maybe controversial this filter. (People gonna think this one could be placebo.)
 

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  • Sennheiser HD800 (2020).pdf
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UPDATE: I haven't improved upon the EQ I mentioned in previous post for HD800, but small note on comparison to other headphones of mine - I had been level matching my best EQ's for each headphone, but what I'd failed to realise that my best EQ's for each headphone had been initially created at somewhat different listening levels, so therefore it's not a fair match to level match the EQ's because there's probably some loudness compensation happening in the tweaking of my best EQ's for my various headphones. So to remedy this I'd either have to level match all initial EQ's (before finetuning them) and then tweak the EQ's or ditch the concept of level matching headphone EQ's and just go on which headphones I consistently enjoy more (get my head rocking, etc). It's probably not easy or that relevant to level match each base EQ (an EQ based purely on measurements) before tweaking because things like unit to unit variation & on head variation means that some parts of the frequency response are already over-emphasised or under-emphasised which in itself creates the situation where this will also have loudness effects in terms of what volume they sound best at from the get-go, and would complicate further finetuning of the EQ. When I base it on purely listening to my best EQ's for each of my comparison headphones when they're not level matched then I'm enjoying some of my other headphones more than the HD800. I think a lot of it is based on getting a very good starting point for an EQ, both my K702 & HD560s were measured by Oratory (I sent them to him) so I can bypass some unit to unit variation, whilst the HD800 now has the new HD800s pads that do change the frequency response a little, so it's more unpredictable to get an accurate starting point (also the bass is just a bit flaky on the HD800 anyway). Reduced on-head variation is a positive too I think, and that's another plus point for the K702 which has been shown to have low on head variation between people (similar to HD800 in this respect), but my K702 has that better starting point due to being measured by Oratory. At the moment I'm favouring K702 & HD560s best EQ's. My best EQ for the HD800 is still the one in my previous post though.
 
I got a used HD800 and have been listening to music with EQ, but so far I don't hear anything special (including the soundstage).

The Aeon Open X with EQ sounds better to me... I will try this a little more.
 
I got a used HD800 and have been listening to music with EQ, but so far I don't hear anything special (including the soundstage).

The Aeon Open X with EQ sounds better to me... I will try this a little more.
Which EQ are you using? What kind of pads have you got on your HD800, are they the worn and need replacing, are they the fabric type original pads or are they the new HD800s pads? (HD800s pads are now the official replacement pad for the HD800, they don't offer the fabric pads anymore)

Myself, I didn't find the HD800 that great overall, I mean of course I was using EQ with it. I found the soundstage wide, but it didn't have any forward projection for some of the effects, in terms of front to back it felt centre to rear of head, whereas with K702 it's maybe not quite as wide (nearly) as the HD800 but some effects have some forward projection as well as rear projection (front to back effects). So for me the K702 had a better soundstage than the HD800. I haven't listened with HD800 for a while now, I might have a go with it today, not for anything serious but just for a change & to check it out again. I think one of the problems with HD800 specifically is that the official pads have changed through it's life (like I mentioned it now officially uses HD800s pads), so there are some frequency response differences associated with that, so this pollutes some of the accuracy of how close you are to Harman when you first setup your EQ. Oratory says he's measured maybe 50:50 or 75:25 original fabric pads vs HD800s pads amoungst his units he's used to create the HD800 EQ, and he said there's not much difference between the pads in terms of frequency response, but I don't really believe that given the differences solderdude measured. So I'm thinking the HD800s Oratory EQ is probably going to be more accurate than the HD800 EQ as the HD800s has always used HD800s pads......but anyway initial EQ accuracy aside you're still left with how good the bass can be for the HD800 and that's not too great, which is a bit of a downer to be honest.

EDIT: yep, my HD800/EQ is still not quite right, still not the best.
 
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The EQ preset I used is from oratory1990.
They are probably original fabric pads having the lines. I think they are worn.

Nothing special, but not bad either.

You are right, it is indeed difficult to perfectly match the Harman target, but also I don't think you need to be that nervous.
 
The EQ preset I used is from oratory1990.
They are probably original fabric pads having the lines. I think they are worn.

Nothing special, but not bad either.

You are right, it is indeed difficult to perfectly match the Harman target, but also I don't think you need to be that nervous.
I think it's a synergistic thing, if all areas of the frequency response are bang on correct or very close to it then I think it optimises the whole experience. I don't have much faith from that point of view with the HD800 given the pad differences and my experiences with the headphone, it's lacking somewhere or in more than one place, it's not right......then I listen with my best K702 EQ that's based on Oratory measuring one of my K702 units and it sounds complete & fantastic - I really think the frequency response has to be correct throughout for best experience. I mean sure, if I don't listen to any headphones that day and then pick up the HD800 and start listening with it along with my best EQ for it then it sounds fine/ok (albeit not perfect), but then when I compare it directly in same listening session to say my K702 & best EQ then it's quite stark to see the difference and what lacks with my best attempt at the HD800. So I think if you know you like Harman Curve from EQ experiments with various headphones of yours (because ultimately they would be various approximations around the Harman Curve), and then if you were to then theoretically listen to a headphone that perfectly matched Harman without any deficiencies in any parts of the frequency response - then in that situation you'd realise it was right. I think this is what the E3 (& Stealth) is all about, and why people often like them so much - I would bet that they have very low unit to unit variation & they're bang on Harman (arguably), so for people who know they have an affinity for the Harman Curve then I think they'd be a wonderful experience. I think it's all about the frequency response, and the only thing that gets in the way of that with EQ's is the quality/reliability of the measurements & unit to unit variation along with having a model of headphone that doesn't have any unEQ'able dips/peaks (& maybe a headphone model that has low variability when placed on different real heads). So for Harman Curve lovers I think that's where it's at, there's not more than that for them, and I think not many people realise this as it's not that easy to ensure your headphone is meeting Harman accurately.
 
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I love my HD800, removed the SDR mod, never regretted it.

Been using an old Autoeq.app EQ, didn't realize it was updated in June.

Sometimes I will also just dial in a 3db boost at 105 hz 1.0Q in the RME ADI-2

Most of the time I spend on my estats these days tho
 
@Robbo99999 Definitely the next step you should take is to send your HD800 to an oratory1990 to have it measured...
I dunno, I've sent him x2 units of K702 and x1 unit of HD560s, I think I might have had enough of sending my headphones in! I won't completely rule it out, but I'm not thinking about doing it soon.
 
I think this is what the E3 (& Stealth) is all about, and why people often like them so much - I would bet that they have very low unit to unit variation & they're bang on Harman (arguably), so for people who know they have an affinity for the Harman Curve then I think they'd be a wonderful experience.

The whole E3, Stealth, and Expanse is a bit of a mystery to me. People should universally at least like them if not love them, but a lot of them don't. So I wouldn't recommend them to everyone. Seems there are issues on people's heads that are not there on the measurement rigs.

Not to go far off-topic here so in a nutshell, I have been using E3 for a while now and the bass never felt had the impact I expected. HD 800s after EQ had a more tactile bass (weird I know)! I fixed this with a slight bass shelf (really small, like 0.7dB at 60Hz) and a 2dB bump at 80Hz. This is something GoldenSound said on their podcast and it worked for me. E3 is by no means a disappointment, but for me, it needed that correction.

Back to HD800...did you try (after applying Oratory's EQ) fine-tuning it by ear, listening to peaks in FR sweeps? This is something @Resolve talks about in his podcast. Although, I don't know exactly the procedure.
 
The whole E3, Stealth, and Expanse is a bit of a mystery to me. People should universally at least like them if not love them, but a lot of them don't. So I wouldn't recommend them to everyone. Seems there are issues on people's heads that are not there on the measurement rigs.

Not to go far off-topic here so in a nutshell, I have been using E3 for a while now and the bass never felt had the impact I expected. HD 800s after EQ had a more tactile bass (weird I know)! I fixed this with a slight bass shelf (really small, like 0.7dB at 60Hz) and a 2dB bump at 80Hz. This is something GoldenSound said on their podcast and it worked for me. E3 is by no means a disappointment, but for me, it needed that correction.

Back to HD800...did you try (after applying Oratory's EQ) fine-tuning it by ear, listening to peaks in FR sweeps? This is something @Resolve talks about in his podcast. Although, I don't know exactly the procedure.
I did experiment with increasing the bass shelf and it didn't do much to increase the impact/detail of the bass. There's no obvious drawbacks in any given area in the rest of the frequency response so it's difficult to know what to change, but there does feel like there is some deficiencies somewhere which is hard to nail down beyond just the deficiencies in the bass. I might have another go and see what I come up with, as previously I was more using various measurements to try to arrive at the best sound rather than ear tuning (beyond bass).
 
I did experiment with increasing the bass shelf and it didn't do much to increase the impact/detail of the bass. There's no obvious drawbacks in any given area in the rest of the frequency response so it's difficult to know what to change, but there does feel like there is some deficiencies somewhere which is hard to nail down beyond just the deficiencies in the bass. I might have another go and see what I come up with, as previously I was more using various measurements to try to arrive at the best sound rather than ear tuning (beyond bass).

This is kinda old, but might be worth to try/read.


Didn't find any newer method.
 
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