HD6XX bass

[Patrick1958]

It would be interesting to see if the HD700 could be made to shine with well applied equalization. Has anybody created/know of a decent parametric equalization of them? I actually have a set here and they have aspects that are rather nice, but without a doubt there is a very odd treble/upper midrange response. Or at least it sounds like an uneven response in those areas to me. I have owned the HD600/650/800S and rather liked all three.

About two/three months ago i obtained the HD 700 at a bargain price second hand. Add to that the cost of new earpads it is still below half of the price when buying new (if they still can be found). I asked Davy (Oratory1990) if he would be interested in measuring the HD 700 because i noticed the sample he measured showed the "preliminary" designation. Meaning he probably only had one measured to that date. He agreed and about two weeks later the HD 700 returned with a customized PEQ.
The HD 700 is now my preferred listening headphone even over the HD 800, HD 650 with applied eq. The HD 700 being somewhat considered an underdog can really shine when proper eq applied.

 

[A Surfer]

Oratory has produced a parametric EQ profile for the HD700. You're not wrong about the treble, they have a 10dB peak at 6kHz!

Thanks, I will try this next chance that I get. Cheers.

 

[A Surfer]

About two/three months ago i obtained the HD 700 at a bargain price second hand. Add to that the cost of new earpads it is still below half of the price when buying new (if they still can be found). I asked Davy (Oratory1990) if he would be interested in measuring the HD 700 because i noticed the sample he measured showed the "preliminary" designation. Meaning he probably only had one measured to that date. He agreed and about two weeks later the HD 700 returned with a customized PEQ.
The HD 700 is now my preferred listening headphone even over the HD 800, HD 650 with applied eq. The HD 700 being somewhat considered an underdog can really shine when proper eq applied.

Nice, I hope that my experience will be as positive. Thanks.

 

[3125b]

a bargain price second hand.

May I ask how much you paid and/or what you'd consider a fair price?
I was looking at some myself and was wondering.

 

[Patrick1958]

May I ask how much you paid and/or what you'd consider a fair price?
I was looking at some myself and was wondering.

Upon release price was around 799 €, about a year ago new price was between 599 - 699 € for the remaining stock, i paid 275 € second hand.
For a mint condition second hand around 300 € would be a fair price IMO.

 

[Blujackaal]

I presume you're talking about this graph Oratory posted:

Note the SPL. An average SPL of 85 dB could translate to peaks of ~105 dB (even up to ~115 dB with classical music), which would push the THD in the bass / sub-bass up even further.

In response to this:


Oratory replied:

The HD650 at 90 ~ 100+ can rate 10% there at that point it caves in, That when planar headphones start doing much better same with the ER4SR which can rate 0.3 ~ 0.6% at 100db for bass.

 

[bobbooo]

The HD650 at 90 ~ 100+ can rate 10% there at that point it caves in, That when planar headphones start doing much better same with the ER4SR which can rate 0.3 ~ 0.6% at 100db for bass.

Yep planar magnetics generally have very low distortion. The ER4SR however already approaches 1% distortion in the bass (and midrange) at 94 dB (mostly the less desirable 3rd harmonic too):

At peaks of 100+ dB this would be even higher still.

 

[Blujackaal]

Yep planar magnetics generally have very low distortion. The ER4SR however already approaches 1% distortion in the bass (and midrange) at 94 dB (mostly the less desirable 3rd harmonic too):

At peaks of 100+ dB this would be even higher still.

Your ignoring unit's are not the same, No idea why people act as if that what all ER4SR perform at. I've seen people get 0.4% ER4XR's. Always noticed many review sites seem to only show the worst performing units, Then act offended when people show ones with much lower THD?.

 

[bobbooo]

Your ignoring unit's are not the same, No idea why people act as if that what all ER4SR perform at. I've seen people get 0.4% ER4XR's. Always noticed many review sites seem to only show the worst performing units, Then act offended when people show ones with much lower THD?.

The ER4XR is even worse in the midrange (where our ears are more sensitive):

It's unlikely that ClarityFidelity were unlucky enough for both their ER4SR and ER4XR samples to be at the upper end of unit variation when it comes to distortion. Do you have a link to those measurements showing 0.4% THD for the ER4XR at greater than or equal to 94 dB?

 

[A Surfer]

Your ignoring unit's are not the same, No idea why people act as if that what all ER4SR perform at. I've seen people get 0.4% ER4XR's. Always noticed many review sites seem to only show the worst performing units, Then act offended when people show ones with much lower THD?.

How do you know that the worse performing units aren't more typical than the better performing units? What sample size have you tested?

 

[Blujackaal]

How do you know that the worse performing units aren't more typical than the better performing units? What sample size have you tested?

Why are you acting as if the worst ones are common?. Go google Etymotic data sheet that comes with all ER4SR's you'll find 0.2 ~ 0.55% common, The ER4SR 0.6% at 100db not 1% which to me sounds like margin of error on that THD chart.

Go argue somewhere else i don't care.

 

[solderdude]

In any case it is much worse than HD650 distortion numbers above 100Hz where distortion actually starts to matter.
HD650 is predominant H2 as well.

And yes, most planars do have low distortion in the bass. Perceived bass sound quality being 'better', however, is not due to lower distortion but because of flatter (more even) frequency response between 10Hz and 1kHz.

 

[Soniclife]

I always take the view it's much better to hear a bass note, with a bit of distortion, that to not hear the note. Nothing posted so far proves there is an audible problem with doing EQ to the bass on the 650, but has anyone done a multi-tone test with a without a bass boost? That should clear up how much a bass boost impacts frequencies above the bass.

 

[solderdude]

An IM test with 100Hz and 6kHz (in a lower amplitude) will proabably be conclusive enough. Performed at various levels say 70-80-90-100-110
I have been told my test method is totally flawed and inaccurate and won't produce proper results (can't be trusted) so that rules me out.
Also I cannot go above 100dB SPL so perhaps someone with a suitable rig could do this test.
Maybe 30Hz could be more interesting as it is about the lowest note in 'normal' music.

 

[Soniclife]

I'd like something like that 32 tones Amir uses, they have a bunch of tones below 100 to make the driver move, set the volume so the midrange averages to 80db, test, then apply EQ to boost the bass to flat, but not changing the midrange volume, and remeasure. Does the midrange distortion jump, or only go up a bit.

 

[Soniclife]

I have been told my test method is totally flawed and inaccurate and won't produce proper results (can't be trusted) so that rules me out.

I don't follow how your results with distortion are invalid, they seem to correlate with other ways fairly well.

 

[half_dog]

We are talking about distortion around 1 to 2% at bass region for HD650 and I'm thinking about the AKG K182. I know my rig is very simple, but this headphone was hitting 5% below 80Hz and a peak above 1% around 3~4kHz (83dB at 1kHz). These peaks were quite noticeable. Btw, I dislike the K361 and k371 because of their distortion peaks around this region. Those peaks makes me perceive some instruments unnatural (hi-hat, for example). I realized that AKG has embraced this sound signature and that's not for me - do they need all this distortion to hit harman target?

Anyway, HD650 is not perfect, but for my 30-year-ears they sound really smooth and almost natural.

Note: the 5% bass distortion didn't bother me at all.

 

[solderdude]

Here is the RH5 especially for you.

Perhaps a fan of the expensive Grado GS2000e bass quality ?

 

[half_dog]

MY EARS ARE BLEEDING

 

[solderdude]

Btw, I dislike the K361 and k371 because of their distortion peaks around this region. Those peaks makes me perceive some instruments unnatural (hi-hat, for example). I realized that AKG has embraced this sound signature and that's not for me - do they need all this distortion to hit harman target?

The tonal balance is what Harman was after, the pricepoint shows there is room for improvement. Why build the 'perfect' headphone for just over $100 and then also sell 'lesser' headphones for > 1k$ ?
Its distortion isn't needed to follow the Harman tonal balance curve but is an aspect of the driver.
I hope they can do better. Aside from the cable being microphonic I also found the treble quality not to write home about, but the level is pretty decent. Whether this is frequency response related or distortion, or both I will leave in the middle. That's up to AKG to figure out.
I didn't like it enough to keep it, also not with EQ but can see the value of it. Just not for me.