HD6XX bass

[solderdude]

I hope you are not sitting on your sub while listening to get even more tactile feel.

 

[bobbooo]

Yes ill look into HE4XX once they solve the build quality somewhat.

It seems that was mostly the occasional early build issue (I know they moved from 2.5mm to more sturdy 3.5mm connections, maybe other internal build improvements were made too). I've had mine for about a year with no problems whatsoever, and I know quite a few others who've had them longer with no issues either. I suspect a relatively small number of failures have just been amplified by people hearing about these on the internet, jumping to conclusions and spreading exaggerated misinformation without having any hands-on experience with them. They come with a year's manufacturer guarantee and Massdrop/Drop have a 30-day no questions asked return policy if you don't like them, so there's no real risk in trying them.

 

[Kouioui]

ButtKicker can also be used with headphones for tactile dysfunction and constipation. I use one on my drum throne at gigs to lock my kick to bassists who think they're responsible for keeping time.

 

[half_dog]

Hey guys! As a lot of us I was trying some mods on my HD650 to increase its bass (sub bass) mainly. I've tried differents earpads, some of them increased its bass a lot making it sounds really loose. But a simple reversible mod suprised me. I just covered those eight holes (fig) of its plastic frame with pieces of blue tape. This was enough to increase its sub / bass making the midbass hump flatter - comparint to bass level. No relevant increasing on THD neither change on its FR over 150Hz. Oh, that was done with earpads from AliExpress, I don't have the originals anymore.

The measure rig were composed by a electret mic addapted to 48V, this were connected to a US-366 USB interface and mounted on a flat plate.
DAC source: Topping E30
AMP: JDS Atom
ADC: TASCAM US-366
MIC: electret (it supposed to be a Panasonic wm-61a, can't guarantee this detail =P) adapted to 48V

@solderdude, have you ever done any similar experiment? If not, I would be asking too much if I suggest to you to apply this mod on some HD650 and measure it?

(fig.)
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...0-driver-300ohm-092885_2000x.jpg?v=1591414913

 

[half_dog]

I was really stupid and didn't save the measurements to show it here. I'll try to replicate them again and post another moment.

 

[solderdude]

@solderdude, have you ever done any similar experiment? If not, I would be asking too much if I suggest to you to apply this mod on some HD650 and measure it?

Haven't tried different pads. I can't imagine aftermarket pads improving the response without affecting other parts of the frequency range as well.
Some may like that, others may not.

Yes, I toyed with covering the holes as well. This didn't seem to do anything which makes sense because the plastic mounting ring which is jammed in the ridge and sealed off by the foam it holds doesn't let any sound through. I did also play with the 'mesh'.
My conclusions are Sennheiser knew bloody well what they were doing.

If you want more bass... EQ it in. The HD650 is pretty low in distortion and handles EQ quite well.

 

[patate91]

Quite a significant period of time. 85dB is perfectly safe for several hours daily. That's where US federal occupational noise exposure regulation begins.

Unless you listen at at that level all day long there's not really much to worry about.

I wonder how many time(or how many long) you get 10 to 20 db peak when listening to music for 2 hours?

 

[bobbooo]

If you want more bass... EQ it in. The HD650 is pretty low in distortion and handles EQ quite well.

Its bass distortion is relatively high from the below measurements by Innerfidelity, which will only be exacerbated by EQing up the bass.

 

[half_dog]

Sometimes I eq them but it's quite annoying to find a curve for each gear - most of them don't have a 10 band parametric eq. =P
I agree that Sennheiser knew what they was doing and "extracted" something close to, if not, the best what these drivers can do.

 

[half_dog]

@solderdude you were right, probably was a positioning error that caused this increase at lower frequencies and I was so excited looking at the graphics and ignored it. I'm updating a screen shot of the last measurements:

HD650 ST = stock; HD650 MOD (holes covered); HD650 MOD_ALI (holes covered and earpads from Alixepress); HD6502 MOD_ALI (higher clamping force). No compensation aplied.

 

[solderdude]

Do you have a link for the Ali pads ?

Oh... please don't EQ HD650's in the bass. Tyll's plots are conclusive the HD650 sounds poor when you do. Science says so.
Damn my cloth ears for telling me otherwise.

 

[half_dog]

The last pair were bought from this store, they have two options, I've bought the cloth one.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dUCFc4U

Yep, another reason I was looking for a mod to increase its sub bass without EQing. I've been bought some pads, some of them were just to replace the old pads and some, different types like leather or format, to just to experiment. As I told before, they change a lot its sound, most of them elevate bass to annoying levels.

Different types link:
https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/4000...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

I've bought one pair of each model.

 

[solderdude]

Just for fun I bought the memory foam velour versions.
My experiences with Ali pads for other headphones is that most of them are horrible either in quality or sound or both.
Just a few Euros, waiting 2 months and then wondering what's in the mail after that period and forgetting you even ordered them.

I looked for original looking cheap HD800 pads (most of them look radically different) but even these thin similar height and feeling pads change the sound too much.

I have had excellent results extending bass with HD650's. Of course when you will need an amp that can provide double the voltage and even 4x the voltage when EQ'ing acc. to Harman to play equally loud. I don't notice any audible distortion even when playing loud.
Those that find EQing the bass results in muddy sound are simply not applying the correct EQ.
The HD650 can sound very natural with deep immersing clean bass which is not possible by any physical mods.

 

[Blujackaal]

Those that find EQing the bass results in muddy sound are simply not applying the correct EQ.

People where oratory posts still make threads on how software EQ will distort if you use 6 ~ 20db boosts with no proof. Make claims how like say the ER4XR's 1% THD a issue despite it being 0.1 ~ 0.55% under 90db?, Not to mention people saying they never tried EQ. But will spam the thread on why you should never try & buy another headphone.

It was a headache when people got mocked there for showing EQ + Ety ER3 = ER4SR or ER4XR?. With no issues.

 

[solderdude]

1% distortion in the lows is inaudible with music anyway.

When one boosts bass 20dB in software the average levels also at least must drop 20dB. Add to that the effect that besides lots more gain you really will need an amp that can provide 10x higher output voltage (100x more output power) when they want to listen at the same 'volume'.
Those factors, aside from bass probably sounding bloated, is probably why people complain about EQ, might also be clipping they hear.

When the lift is 'gentle' (say 6dB at 20Hz) the consequences in distortion increase aren't a severe penalty at all. When apply Harman (acc. to Oratory) that would mean a 10dB boost at 20Hz, still not very high.
Looking at the IMD plot Amir made the HD650 is performing quite well.

 

[Blujackaal]

Those factors, aside from bass probably sounding bloated, is probably why people complain about EQ, might also be clipping they hear.

Or there just making up stories, So it won't make them question high end headphones are worth it or having 12+ headphones. Like Stax users saying detail in dynamic headphones is boosted treble, Despite most FR charts showing less than netural bass or a boost in the 7k area by 5db.

When the lift is 'gentle' (say 6dB at 20Hz) the consequences in distortion increase aren't a severe penalty at all. When apply Harman (acc. to Oratory) that would mean a 10dB boost at 20Hz, still not very high.
Looking at the IMD plot Amir made the HD650 is performing quite well.

When Oratory posted a same chart for the EQ'd HD650. A lot of users either ignored him or stopped posting, Or kept repeating how it sound wrong at 10db. It weird how offended people get how far you can push mid priced headphones with just only EQ.

Had a 4 crying about the HD6XX when i made a thread about EQ + mid range headphones. lol

 

[solderdude]

Oratory is just adhering to a standard, in this case Harman.
He may well prefer less bass boost himself seeing as he must be a trained listener and probably listens/evaluates at 'reference levels'.

In a lot of cases (as an example a lot of Beyers) the 'hyper detail' is indeed caused by a substantial treble lift/peak. Flatten it and after you get used to that presentation they still have detail. Just not exaggerated. Some really like 'hyper detail' though.
Not all Staxes measure the same. I quite like how most of them sound. They usually are less 'off' than a lot of dynamics.

I don't look at reddit, nor headfi. There are quite a few people that really know what they are talking about but most of the users have no real clue.
Just like head-fi, you need to know who the gems are and what to ignore. Impossible for those that have little knowledge.
That's where most 'myths' and nonsense comes from aside from 'audiophile magazines' in whichever form. For the latter it's all about making a living and views.

It is not dissimilar to Paul McClown's videos. Can every person watching his videos really tell what parts are (close to) reality and what part is made up ? I think most people just assume everything he says is true.

Making up stories about every aspect in hifi-lala land is not exclusive to headphones and has been going on for decades.
Also about the HD650 (to get it back on topic again) where HD6XX is HD650 with a different cable and paint job.

 

[A Surfer]

It would be interesting to see if the HD700 could be made to shine with well applied equalization. Has anybody created/know of a decent parametric equalization of them? I actually have a set here and they have aspects that are rather nice, but without a doubt there is a very odd treble/upper midrange response. Or at least it sounds like an uneven response in those areas to me. I have owned the HD600/650/800S and rather liked all three.

 

[bobbooo]

It would be interesting to see if the HD700 could be made to shine with well applied equalization. Has anybody created/know of a decent parametric equalization of them? I actually have a set here and they have aspects that are rather nice, but without a doubt there is a very odd treble/upper midrange response. Or at least it sounds like an uneven response in those areas to me. I have owned the HD600/650/800S and rather liked all three.

Oratory has produced a parametric EQ profile for the HD700. You're not wrong about the treble, they have a 10dB peak at 6kHz!

 

[bobbooo]

When Oratory posted a same chart for the EQ'd HD650. A lot of users either ignored him or stopped posting, Or kept repeating how it sound wrong at 10db.

I presume you're talking about this graph Oratory posted:

Note the SPL. An average SPL of 85 dB could translate to peaks of ~105 dB (even up to ~115 dB with classical music), which would push the THD in the bass / sub-bass up even further.

In response to this:

it [the HD650] definitely doesn't respond well to bass boosts at higher volumes

Oratory replied:

No argument there. Individual peaks in the bass will reach well over the average listening volume.