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HD6xx Amp - A want or a need for my case?

nickans

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I've been searching through forums and have gotten some decent answers but still kind of looking for one pertaining exactly to my question. I apologize if a similar question has been posted many times. Basically, I produce electronic music on ableton, specifically house/garage and I decided to up my production game by purchasing a pair of massdrop HD6xx (on the way) as they were on a nice sale during the holidays.

My current setup is a pair of HD598's running through a focusrite scarlette 2i2 (2nd gen I believe). I've been researching for a couple hours now and have been hearing mixed reviews. On one end I've been hearing that I can use the HD6xx with the 2i2 just fine, but it might not be as loud as I'd like, and on the other end I've been reading about amp/dac suggestions to consider.

I may just have gear acquisition syndrome but part of me thinks splurging on a decent amp/dac might help. My budget is in the 100-200 range and I've been looking at options like the Topping DX3 pro+, Schiit vali 2+, and the JDS atom. It'd be nice if a recommendation is from amazon as well as I have a good amount saved up in gift cards. Would the general consensus be to just stick with the 2i2 and only buy an amp if I feel like I need one, or should I just go for an amp from the get go? Also if I were to get an amp like one of the above, is there any specific cables I should be ordering that won't come with the amp or HD6xx themselves? Please let me know, as I've been spinning in circles for an answer. Thank you!

P.S. also planning on purchasing sonarworks ID to help get that flat sound.
 
Certainly the conventional advice is a (competent) dedicated amp wouldn't hurt, but I will share my personal experience. I used an iFi iDSD Black Label for years, a highly reviewed combo DAC/Amp for my HD 650s. I ended up getting a Motu M2 interface, comparable to your Scarlett, and had to admit to myself I preferred the sound through the Motu. iFi went in to its box and I ended up selling it to a friend.
However I did acquire the Fosi DS2 for well under $100 after its recent glowing review here, and am content with its sound. Haven't really A/B tested it. Given how cheap and cheerful a device it is, I would consider it. I would expect the interface to have slightly better latency characteristics if this is a consideration for you.
 
For audio production (creating, mixing, editing, etc.), you want a boring sound, so you can hear all the details on a level field.
So a Sennheiser HD598, connected to the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, to me would a good setup for audio production.
I doubt(?) that the HD6XX, plugged into the 2i2, will offer improvement for audio production.
But for audio enjoyment, I would think a tube headphone amplifier, connected to the line-output of the 2i2, would be nice.
A pure OTL tube headphone amplifier would work fine with 300-Ohm headphones (HD6XX), but might have damping issues with the 50-Ohm HD598.
A hybrid (tube/solid state), with it's low output impedance (Ohms) would offer better damping control, for the HD598.
A Xduoo MT-602 ($100) would be a good bang for the buck head amp.
A Schiit Vali 3 ($150) is another option.
Or go for a pure solid state with balanced connections, with the Schiit Midgard ($220)
Another $80 to $90 for balanced cables (headphone and line cables)
 
For audio production (creating, mixing, editing, etc.), you want a boring sound, so you can hear all the details on a level field.
So a Sennheiser HD598, connected to the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, to me would a good setup for audio production.
I doubt(?) that the HD6XX, plugged into the 2i2, will offer improvement for audio production.
But for audio enjoyment, I would think a tube headphone amplifier, connected to the line-output of the 2i2, would be nice.
A pure OTL tube headphone amplifier would work fine with 300-Ohm headphones (HD6XX), but might have damping issues with the 50-Ohm HD598.
A hybrid (tube/solid state), with it's low output impedance (Ohms) would offer better damping control, for the HD598.
A Xduoo MT-602 ($100) would be a good bang for the buck head amp.
A Schiit Vali 3 ($150) is another option.
Or go for a pure solid state with balanced connections, with the Schiit Midgard ($220)
Another $80 to $90 for balanced cables (headphone and line cables)
I appreciate your detailed reply. I will say I definitely think the 6xx will make a noticeable difference than the 598s. Out of the 2i2, I think it may not make a wild difference at first, but with an external amp it definitely could, like you suggested. I appreciate the recommendations. Bit of a noob question, but would you say between the two, going with an amp out of the 2i2 like the ones you suggested would be better, or should I just look into getting a DAC+amp and removing the 2i2 out of the equation all together? Or are they just going to be the same in the end given the price range I’m at? Also I won’t really be using the 598s anymore so I’m more so looking for something to focus on the 6xx.
 
The Scarlette 2i2 Gen 3 Amir measured has a rather anemic headphone output. The Sennheiser HD-650 (should be almost the same as a 6XX, see Amir's review here) can also benefit from some bass boost, and so you'll probably need a bit of extra headroom from you headphone amp. I'd recommend adding any one of the recommended headphone amplifiers Amir has measured that are within your budget (you can run a search in the Review Index). The 2i2 DAC is good enough, no need for another DAC.

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The Scarlette 2i2 Gen 3 Amir measured has a rather anemic headphone output. The Sennheiser HD-650 (should be almost the same as a 6XX, see Amir's review here) can also benefit from some bass boost, and so you'll probably need a bit of extra headroom from you headphone amp. I'd recommend adding any one of the recommended headphone amplifiers Amir has measured that are within your budget (you can run a search in the Review Index). The 2i2 DAC is good enough, no need for another DAC.

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Thanks, I’ll look through the list! I have one last question that might be a silly one. I’ve been using the lines in the back of the 2i2 for my presonus monitors, and I’ll go back and forth between listening in headphones and on the monitors but mostly staying in the headphones. Given that the amp will run through the back of the 2i2, is there any way to have my monitors also still plugged in through a splitter of some sort, or will I just be unplugging and plugging in between the two to go back and forth? Also, a bit of a crazy setup, but sometimes I’ll collaborate with a friend when producing and I’ll run my headphones through the focusrite headphone jack, and then plug in his headphones through the headphone jack on the presonus monitors that runs through the back of the scarlett. Given that when I get an amp I won’t have those lines accessible, is there a chance of using a splitter through the amp to route both our headphones through, or is using a splitter going to ruin the sound? Sorry if it’s a bit of a strange question
 
I appreciate your detailed reply. I will say I definitely think the 6xx will make a noticeable difference than the 598s. Out of the 2i2, I think it may not make a wild difference at first, but with an external amp it definitely could, like you suggested. I appreciate the recommendations. Bit of a noob question, but would you say between the two, going with an amp out of the 2i2 like the ones you suggested would be better, or should I just look into getting a DAC+amp and removing the 2i2 out of the equation all together? Or are they just going to be the same in the end given the price range I’m at? Also I won’t really be using the 598s anymore so I’m more so looking for something to focus on the 6xx.
For audio production, I doubt a different DAC/amp would help (from the 2i2).
But for audio enjoyment, I would replace the 2i2.
 
I will say I definitely think the 6xx will make a noticeable difference than the 598s.
For production, any "difference" can be a BAD thing unless it helps you to make better mixes! It will take some time to learn what a good mix should sound like on the new headphones. (Same with new-different monitors.)

Heres something I saved from Recording Magazine:

Can I mix on headphones?

No. But in all seriousness, headphones can be a secret weapon and it really doesn’t matter what they sound like…

Over time, after constantly listening back to my work from different studios on those headphones I really started to learn them. They became sort of a compass. Wherever I went… It became a pattern for me to reference these headphones to see if what I was hearing was “right”…

I learned them, I knew them, I trusted them. It didn’t matter whether or not I loved them…

So, can you mix on headphones? Probably. I just think you really need to put some time into learning them first…

...And I have a handful of other excerpts from Recording Magazine and a couple of other sources, all recommending against using headphones as your main monitors.
 
For production, any "difference" can be a BAD thing unless it helps you to make better mixes! It will take some time to learn what a good mix should sound like on the new headphones. (Same with new-different monitors.)

Heres something I saved from Recording Magazine:



...And I have a handful of other excerpts from Recording Magazine and a couple of other sources, all recommending against using headphones as your main monitors.
In an ideal world I would be mixing solely on monitors but when living in an apartment with other students it can be hard to listen to mixes through speakers at various hours of the day and night.

I will say, there are many electronic artists who have mixed many songs solely on headphones and with software like sonarworks you can calibrate your headphones and you can honestly mix just as good as using monitors. Also, monitors in an untreated room honestly might be worse than using cans imo but that’s just me.
 
The Scarlette 2i2 Gen 3 Amir measured has a rather anemic headphone output. The Sennheiser HD-650 (should be almost the same as a 6XX, see Amir's review here) can also benefit from some bass boost, and so you'll probably need a bit of extra headroom from you headphone amp. I'd recommend adding any one of the recommended headphone amplifiers Amir has measured that are within your budget (you can run a search in the Review Index). The 2i2 DAC is good enough, no need for another DAC.

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Looking at this graph again, would you say the topping dx3pro low would be the winner in bass boost? Hoping I'm reading this graph right.
 
Looking at this graph again, would you say the topping dx3pro low would be the winner in bass boost? Hoping I'm reading this graph right.
The Topping DX3 Pro+ (the current model of DX3) certainly will check all the essential boxes.

Think about it a little more, I think there is an advantage to use a separate DAC for the headphones, since headphone amps with balanced inputs are usually more expensive than a desktop DAC/amp combo with unbalanced outputs. And there is no advantage to a balanced output headphone amp over a desktop unbalanced output DAC/headphone amp.
 
The Topping DX3 Pro+ (the current model of DX3) certainly will check all the essential boxes.

Think about it a little more, I think there is an advantage to use a separate DAC for the headphones, since headphone amps with balanced inputs are usually more expensive than a desktop DAC/amp combo with unbalanced outputs. And there is no advantage to a balanced output headphone amp over a desktop unbalanced output DAC/headphone amp.
I think I've decided that I'm going to go with the Topping A50s Balanced Headphone Amplifier as it matches with all my needs and is on a nice sale. Do you have any thoughts about it before I bite the bullet? Also, extremely noob question but would you be able to tell me what cables I may need to purchase? I will be using the scarlett 2i2 as the DAC :)
 
My vote is for the JDS Labs Element IV. It's pretty much all you need. Then again, I like all the JDS line.
 
I think I've decided that I'm going to go with the Topping A50s Balanced Headphone Amplifier as it matches with all my needs and is on a nice sale. Do you have any thoughts about it before I bite the bullet? Also, extremely noob question but would you be able to tell me what cables I may need to purchase? I will be using the scarlett 2i2 as the DAC :)
The Topping A50s will certainly work.

The cables you'll need is a pair of TS to RCA cables to connect the 2i2 to the A50s. Something like the first one if you don't mind cheap, or the second one for better quality but costs more, or something in between that suits your fancy.

You will then need another pair of RCA cables to connect the RCA out from the A50s to your PreSonus (assuming that your PreSonus accepts RCA input).
 
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