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HD660s + Topping d10 + ???

renoxd

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Hey!

I just bought hd660s headphones. I have also Topping d10. Now I'm thinking about headphone amp that i could use with topping d10 and my headphones.
I was thinking about Schiit Magni Heresy OR Topping A50 that should be soon available.
What do you think will match better hd660s? As far i read, both amps are very good products. Topping A50 has bigger output impedance but i think it shouldn't be a problem - hd660s has 150 ohms.

On many other forums in Poland, many people say that hd660s are created for tube amps. What do you think about that?
I like warm playing. I know that many budget tube amps measurements are terrible but everyone love DarkVoice 336SE / xDuoo TA both models right?

What I'm afraid a bit, that with Topping d10 + transistor amplifier i will have too much analitical and bright sound.
Headphones amp has to have line out for my active speakers as Topping d10 doesn;t have 2x RCA outs. Cheers!
 

digitalfrost

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I think if you care about quality and go to all the lengths with a proper DAC etc. using a tube amp is just wasted potential. Especially if your source is a PC you can apply tube sound plugins or EQ anyways - so why not go with something deterministic and reliable.

There's plenty of options for sounding the HD660 if you don't like it as is.
 

Fluffy

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What I'm afraid a bit, that with Topping d10 + transistor amplifier i will have too much analitical and bright sound.
That's a falsehood based on misinformation. "Warmness" and "Brightness" are terms describing frequency response*, and they have nothing to do with the technology used in the amplifier. One can build "warm" solid state amp just as well as "bright" tube amps. What you should do, if you want actual control over your sound without needing to buy a whole new amplifier every time you feel it's too bright or too warm, is get one that is as accurate and flat as possible, and make FR changes using EQ. you can easily emulate any weird frequency response your heart desires, without spending an extra penny.

As for the original question, I personally think that amps that specs the same and measures the same, sound the same. The Schiit Heresy measures amazing, so it probably delivers on sound quality and power. You should read around to see if it has reliability issues, and if not, sound good enough to me. I think that going with a brand new device like the A50 is not wise, because you need time for any issues it might have to be able to surface.

*it's also related to ancillary effects, such as frequency dependent noise (such as in vinyl), multiband compression, and even distortion artifacts. But that's rarely relevant.
 

GeorgeWalk

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I have the HD660S headphones. I have found they pair well with most anything. I have used them with both the JDS Atom and O2 amps. Both work really well. I am partial to the Atom amp with the headphones. I can't describe it, but I just like the sounds better. I have also used them with my Parsound PreAmp they work good there also. But, I do favor the Atom.
 
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renoxd

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That's a falsehood based on misinformation. "Warmness" and "Brightness" are terms describing frequency response*, and they have nothing to do with the technology used in the amplifier.

I don't know much about technical aspects. What i know that people describe tube amps in such a words:
liquid sound, warm, pleasent high tones, rich mids.

When there is for example DAC with ESS Sabre on the plate as:
analitical, too bright, sharp BUT with perfect separation, details etc...

For me most important is to not have sharp highs as my ears can't handle it.

Especially if your source is a PC you can apply tube sound plugins or EQ anyways - so why not go with something deterministic and reliable.

Is it possible to use some plugins that will work With Tidal Masters?
Tidal is my main source.
 

solderdude

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On many other forums in Poland, many people say that hd660s are created for tube amps

Nonsense... period
Just a preference of some folks.

If you want to 'color' the sound you can use OTL tube amps or old receivers with a high output resistance TRS output.
With a higher output resistance (OTL tube amps and some other amps as well) bass/warmth increases. SQ is not higher, just more bass/warmth.
hd660s-120-ohm.png


Just as well use something modern and use tone control to suit your taste.
 

Veri

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I was thinking about Schiit Magni Heresy OR Topping A50 that should be soon available.

Magni heresy would be a good choice. Topping A50 has higher output impedance. See the graph solderdude shows, it might give some extra bass/warmth similar to tubes, without the extra distortion and noise floor of tubes (eww).

Bonus on Topping A50 is the 2.5mm balanced output. You would need to buy a 2.5mm cable for your HD660s, or a 4.4mm > 2.5mm adapter (HD660s should come with 4.4mm balanced cable in the box).
 
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renoxd

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Thank you all for your answers.

I'm looking at Topping DX7Pro and see such a review:

"Awesome package and value: The UI is great with separate volume control for headphone and XLR/RCA outputs. Nice and useful remote. Solid and heavy construction. Now the sound: Frankly I'm still not sure about it: It is either very transparent, more than other DACs I have including very expensive ones, or it could be just a little harsh in the trebles. I'll have to test it more to know. All in all pretty great. "

So as far i understood from what you all are saying is that DAC can be SO good and SO clean that sound in trebles feel like "harsh" but the true is
this is only a "feeling" because there are no disortions and no other factors that could impact on sounds in a "bad" way. This is why sounds seems to be "clinical" or "analytical"

There are also always battles between ESS and AKM chips and their difference in signature, also on this forum.


So, is that possible to use EQ with Tidal, YT music, Spotify?



//Edit
Some extra bass and warmth would be something that i would like to see, especially that i like to listen also electronic music, even D&B sometimes.
 
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renoxd

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Nonsense... period
Just a preference of some folks.

hd660s-120-ohm.png


Just as well use something modern and use tone control to suit your taste.


How did you manage to have such a graph? Is there any calculator for that?
 

Veri

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Just pair Topping D10 with Topping A50 imo, and stop reading subjective nonsense reviews that talk about "harshness" or ESS/AKM chip "sound". There's so much bullshit out there.

So, is that possible to use EQ with Tidal, YT music, Spotify?

Are you on Windows? If so, look into installing EqualiserAPO. There's even an automated headphone EQ tool for it called AutoEQ.

How did you manage to have such a graph? Is there any calculator for that?
Solderdude operates https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/ the graph is taken by measuring the headphone himself using a measurement device.
 

solderdude

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How did you manage to have such a graph? Is there any calculator for that?

Like Veri said.... I measured it.

With just 10 Ohm output R the amount of added lows will not be noticeable. When using some OTL tube amps with output resistances around 100 Ohm or so it will be like the green trace.
Using an older receiver bass/lows will be even more emphasized.

One can achieve about the same effect with tone control though.
I would choose something like the Heresy, Magni 3+, Atom or something similar and use EQ (software) to adjust to taste and not let the amp do this for you. Suppose you buy another headphone one day you might regret having an amp that may not be suited with that one.
Shameless plug: G1217 amps have selectable output resistances (some other amps have that too) that might also be an option if you want to play with such functionality.

Yet another option is to use Heresy, Magni 3+ or Atom and add a 120 Ohm adapter between the output and the headphone and get the same effect.

You just have to realize that an increased output resistance, just like tone control is just an effect to change the tonal character.
EQ is much more flexible for that.
 
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renoxd

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Damn, I am very glad I looked here before any purchases. I appreciate your opinions
 

Fluffy

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I don't know much about technical aspects. What i know that people describe tube amps in such a words:
liquid sound, warm, pleasent high tones, rich mids.

When there is for example DAC with ESS Sabre on the plate as:
analitical, too bright, sharp BUT with perfect separation, details etc...
Let me tell you a story then.

Once upon a time, in the ancient times of audio, technology wasn't perfect. Not much was known neither about designing audio circuits nor measuring them. There were some engineering principals that guided those working in the field, but the old analog technology such as tubes and vinyl records were far from ideal, and had various idiosyncrasies and unknown variations. High quality gear was expansive and rare, and accurate measuring equipment was in very few hands. True knowledge was scarce and held as closely guarded secret by the top companies in the field, in the form of patents and other industrial secrets. Most people just didn't have the knowledge or the access to learn the technical terms and educate themselves on the theoretical side of things.

Thus, a culture was born of using subjective and metaphorical terms to describe various aspects of audio devices to the everyday man. They were used out of necessity and simplicity, to communicate gross ideas without the prerequisite of an engineering degree to understand them. The marketing departments at the audio brands saw this, and used it to their advantage. They marketed their products with tantalizing buzzwords and luxurious adjectives to draw in customers, and convince them to purchase their devices and not the competitor's. Since the technology was pretty crude to begin with, and most consumers had no kind of useful knowledge with which to judge the ads' assertions, they bought in to the scheme and even propelled it forward.

Anyone could be an "audio expert" if they were fluent in the lingo and able to describe with picturesque detail the sound of various audio products. "This amp is warm yet detailed, with a pleasant midrange and liquid sparkling highs". What a wonderfully poetical description, isn't it? Makes you wanna listen to that amp for yourself to take part in the elevating experience described by the expert. This is exactly the way audio brands drew customers in for decades, using promotions and paid reviewers to affirm the notion that audio equipment should be described and experienced – and not measured and quantified.

Since then, the technology has very much improved and the uncertainties greatly diminished. We have a far more complete view on how audio actually works and how to build competent products at minimal costs. Years of research and accumulated knowledge will do that in every field, and the over-saturated field of audio benefitted greatly from this. Excellent cheap products have become commonplace and are almost taken for granted. Some fields of research, such as digital to analog conversation, are even deemed "completely solved" by some, because their minimal threshold for accuracy far surpasses that of human hearing.

On the consumer side, the democratization of information brought by the internet gave the average consumer a massive power – the power of knowledge. The consumers are no longer uneducated masses that can be duped by buzzwords and subjective descriptions. We have data, we have measuring devices, we can easily compare different products and infer their actual properties without even listening to them. The audio companies try to convince us that audio is an art form, thus imperfect and subjective, but the truth is that it's merely engineering. And engineering is not based on feelings, but on hard facts and physics. This led people to gradually discover that audio needn't be ultra-expansive anymore, and excellent specifications can be found in affordable products.

And yet, the long years of brainwashing consumers into believing the brands' marketing ploys had left their mark. People on average are still firmly resisting any attempt to change the discourse into a more fact-based one. I don't blame these people – they lived their whole lives believing one thing, so it makes it very hard for them to suddenly change direction and embrace a new paradigm. But for people new to the field, it's a great opportunity to finally change the course of history and make audio into a more straightforward and affordable hobby. The main thing I think was (deliberately) forgotten over time, is that for most people, the music is that actual end goal – not the gear. Gear hoarding and frequent upgrades serves only the audio companies, and never the consumer. It's a culture we should get rid of, and a new generation of audio enthusiasts should lead the charge.

I hope you will join us here in Audio Science Review, in this effort.
 
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