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HD600 vs HD650

HereYaGo

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Acc. to the same Oratory the HD600 doesn't have a 5kHz peak which you claim bothered you.

View attachment 129790

It used to be and I complain about him removing that peak regularly. It's on other people's measurements as well: It was painful as hell.
t.png

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...oad-of-headphones-and-updated-his-pdfs.18152/
 

solderdude

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You misunderstood.
The difference you see is not an 'improved' HD600 it is a different measurement method on the same type of headphone.
Obviously Oratory stands behind his more recent measurements that do not show the 'painful' 5kHz peak because there isn't one.
The other trace shows measurement error.
 

HereYaGo

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You misunderstood.
The difference you see is not an 'improved' HD600 it is a different measurement method on the same type of headphone.
Obviously Oratory stands behind his more recent measurements that do not show the 'painful' 5kHz peak because there isn't one.
The other trace shows measurement error.
Entire HD600 series has a 5kHz peak. It's part of its inherent design flaw as mentioned by the guy above and how they tried to fix it with hd 650. Even I realized that was the whole point of the 650 which was to try to reduce harshness in the treble by blunting it a little making it darker as a result.
 

LaL

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You misunderstood.
The difference you see is not an 'improved' HD600 it is a different measurement method on the same type of headphone.
Obviously Oratory stands behind his more recent measurements that do not show the 'painful' 5kHz peak because there isn't one.
The other trace shows measurement error.

One of the most widely owned mid-fi headphones for 24 years the HD600, which even the people who love them will admit, can be slightly fatiguing after longer listening sessions because of the hi-midrange 5kHz peak that is often described as a bit shouty, and something Sennheiser tried to tame a little with the release of the HD650.
Are you saying this peek that many people complain about doesn't actually exist ?
If it's not the peek, what else is causing this ?
 

Leporello

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One of the most widely owned mid-fi headphones for 24 years the HD600, which even the people who love them will admit, can be slightly fatiguing after longer listening sessions because of the hi-midrange 5kHz peak that is often described as a bit shouty, and something Sennheiser tried to tame a little with the release of the HD650.
Are you saying this peek that many people complain about doesn't actually exist ?
If it's not the peek, what else is causing this ?
Could you please show us the measurements in which this claimed 5 kHz peak can be seen? I am sure HD600 has many flaws (which could be fatiguing to many people), but you made the claim, you show the data.
 

solderdude

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One of the most widely owned mid-fi headphones for 24 years the HD600, which even the people who love them will admit, can be slightly fatiguing after longer listening sessions because of the hi-midrange 5kHz peak that is often described as a bit shouty, and something Sennheiser tried to tame a little with the release of the HD650.
Are you saying this peek that many people complain about doesn't actually exist ?
If it's not the peek, what else is causing this ?

Can you point me to the infamous 5kHz peak in the HD600 measurement and that it is 'fixed' in the HD650 measurement taken on the same fixture ?
hd600-vs-hd650.png

or perhaps in the measurement made by Oratory ?

1621082811806.png


and Amir's HD600 and HD650:
1621083235048.png


Now, when you were complaining about a bit elevated presence around 3kHz then you may have a point but that is not addressed in the HD650.
 
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HereYaGo

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I Literally herd the 5khz peak instantly when I got them, lol:

lol.
 
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solderdude

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L.O.L. indeed, I rest my case :D, painful to watch.
Where is your 'evidence' other than your viewers having to take your word for it ?

When folks mentioned a veil needed to be lifted they did not mean you had to remove your backdrop.

You could try to review the ultrasone Edition 10.
There you can literally see the pain it evokes.

The most brilliant review Tyll ever did !
 
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Khronikos

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One of the most widely owned mid-fi headphones for 24 years the HD600, which even the people who love them will admit, can be slightly fatiguing after longer listening sessions because of the hi-midrange 5kHz peak that is often described as a bit shouty, and something Sennheiser tried to tame a little with the release of the HD650.
Are you saying this peek that many people complain about doesn't actually exist ?
If it's not the peek, what else is causing this ?
I have now owned two pairs of the 600. One older and the current one brand new. I lower treble -.24dB at 4K, -.6dB at 8K, and -1.08dB at 16K.

This peak is so vastly misunderstood and ridiculous it's insane lol. There is nothing shouty about the headphones really. They just have full treble. Shouty is so much the wrong word. The word is brilliance bordering on pain on some recordings that already have tons of treble, and it's not really 5K. It's in the range of the full treble. I tend to lower treble at least a little bit on basically EVERY headphone I own too, so this makes it even more of a moot point.

This is honestly no different than the HD800 class. I also lower treble on them too.

But my new pair of HD600s is honestly way more balanced. I don't need to lower treble as much. I lowered treble almost a 1dB more on the old pair in certain recordings at 10K and above. The older pair was more pronounced. A peak that needs a .4dB reduction at best lol? That's a pretty small peak, and it's not just 5K.

The 650 not only needs you to add treble across the board, you have to suck out the midbass on certain recordings as well. If they tried to fix the HD600, they certainly did not succeed with the 650. It is MUCH easier to lower EQ than to raise it on headphones. Why? Because adding EQ is difficult for headphones that don't respond well to bumping frequencies. Lowering them is only taking a bit away from what is already there. I add a TINY bit of bass to my HD600s, but in general you can't add much. +.24dB on the low end and nothing more.

Hence, the HD600 remains the better headphone for ALL TIME. :)
 
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UltraPro

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People should really sometimes check the product page, since they often lean you towards the product most suitable for you, if you are able to read past the marketing hype. Sennheiser has recently changed their product pages, but you can check the current ones, they are quite fitting.

HD600
"Engineered for absolute clarity, the HD 600 is the professional’s choice for reference playback. An instrument of Sennheiser’s passion for perfect sound, it is globally recognized as the standard for analytical listening in both technical and hi-fi applications—even 20-plus years after its release."

HD650
"A benchmark for total audio immersion, the HD 650 reproduces the subtle details in your tracks with the same confidence as the highlights. With a fluid signature tuned for hours of fatigue-free listening, it is the headphone to reach for when the music matters most."

HD650s were not made to fix anything, they are just ever so slightly more premium product with minor tweaks that result in more relaxed tuning - nothing more, nothing less.

People talk seriously about some Beyerdynamic headphones as hifi cans, when they really exist for audio production, just as their product page suggests. They have likeable qualities for listening music surely and many prefer them for that, but in the end, it is no surprise that after hearing the famous treble peak they get returned back to the store.
 

Khronikos

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People should really sometimes check the product page, since they often lean you towards the product most suitable for you, if you are able to read past the marketing hype. Sennheiser has recently changed their product pages, but you can check the current ones, they are quite fitting.

HD600
"Engineered for absolute clarity, the HD 600 is the professional’s choice for reference playback. An instrument of Sennheiser’s passion for perfect sound, it is globally recognized as the standard for analytical listening in both technical and hi-fi applications—even 20-plus years after its release."

HD650
"A benchmark for total audio immersion, the HD 650 reproduces the subtle details in your tracks with the same confidence as the highlights. With a fluid signature tuned for hours of fatigue-free listening, it is the headphone to reach for when the music matters most."

HD650s were not made to fix anything, they are just ever so slightly more premium product with minor tweaks that result in more relaxed tuning - nothing more, nothing less.

People talk seriously about some Beyerdynamic headphones as hifi cans, when they really exist for audio production, just as their product page suggests. They have likeable qualities for listening music surely and many prefer them for that, but in the end, it is no surprise that after hearing the famous treble peak they get returned back to the store.
Well I guess the reply needs to be edited if you are not talking about HD600s. But there are plenty of very good Beyer's as well. I don't think they exist just for audio production. Plenty of targets they have in their marketing not for audio production at all, including their high-end headphones.
 
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Leporello

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People should really sometimes check the product page, since they often lean you towards the product most suitable for you, if you are able to read past the marketing hype. Sennheiser has recently changed their product pages, but you can check the current ones, they are quite fitting.

HD600
"Engineered for absolute clarity, the HD 600 is the professional’s choice for reference playback. An instrument of Sennheiser’s passion for perfect sound, it is globally recognized as the standard for analytical listening in both technical and hi-fi applications—even 20-plus years after its release."

HD650
"A benchmark for total audio immersion, the HD 650 reproduces the subtle details in your tracks with the same confidence as the highlights. With a fluid signature tuned for hours of fatigue-free listening, it is the headphone to reach for when the music matters most."

HD650s were not made to fix anything, they are just ever so slightly more premium product with minor tweaks that result in more relaxed tuning - nothing more, nothing less.

People talk seriously about some Beyerdynamic headphones as hifi cans, when they really exist for audio production, just as their product page suggests. They have likeable qualities for listening music surely and many prefer them for that, but in the end, it is no surprise that after hearing the famous treble peak they get returned back to the store.
'Fluid signature'?
 

UltraPro

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'Fluid signature'?
Ha ha :p. Obviously, people shouldn't take marketing talk too seriously. The point is, if you read the pages, they draw the picture of what these headphones were made for. Anyone can use any headphone for any purpose whatsoever, or enjoy any sound signature, but we all know HD600s are widely used for mixing. I don't know if Sennheiser made HD600 originally for producers, but it is certainly a fine headphone for listening too. Before the current product page, it said something like "HD600 is a good choice for mixing classical music", and I can see that being true.
 
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HD650/HD6XX has lower distortion and 5 dB higher max SPL than HD600. No real reason to get HD600 over the cheaper HD6XX
 
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